Jump to content


Singapore Tank Tree (Tanks Operated by Singapore)


  • Please log in to reply
114 replies to this topic

Yiren #1 Posted 17 May 2013 - 11:53 AM

    Corporal

  • Beta-Tester
  • 73 battles
  • 49
  • Member since:
    07-24-2012

List Maintained by:  Yiren

Knowledge Contributions by:  ISG_Nisa, 76LXXVI, TwoOneSierra, wra1th84, smx88, homingk

 

I created this list as Singapore won't ever be one of the nations in World of Tanks.  It is to help anyone who wants to simulate advancing up a Singapore "Tech Tree".

 

I have done some research.  These are the tanks either operated by the Republic of Singapore, my beloved fatherland OR operated *in* Singapore prior to our independence (i.e. not by us):

 
  • British Tree (Tier II Destroyer):  Universal Carrier 2-Pounder (Bren MG UCs were operated by the British during WWII, so a hypothetical mounting of a 2-pounder gun on it)
  • Chinese Tree (Tier III Light):  Type 2597 Chi-Ha (with Type 97 turret) (changed to Japanese Chi-Ha after Japan as a nation in the game was launched)
  • Japanese Tree (Tier II Light):  Type 95 Hai-Go (with Type 95 turret) [standard 1942 three-tone with yellow stripe] (operated by Imperial Japanese Army during WWII)
  • Japanese Tree (Tier II Light):  Type 97 Te-Ke [standard 1942 three-tone with yellow stripe] (operated by Imperial Japanese Army during WWII)
  • Japanese Tree (Tier III Medium):  Type 97 Chi-Ha (with Type 97 turret) [standard 1942 three-tone with yellow stripe] (operated by Imperial Japanese Army during WWII)
  • [uncertain]  British Tree (Tier VI Medium):  Cromwell (with Cromwell Mk IV turret) (possibly operated by the 13th/18th Hussars based in Nee Soon during the Malayan Emergency)
  • [uncertain]  British Tree (Tier ???):  ??? (operated by British after WWII & before our Independence)

 

  • French Tree (Tier VII Light):  AMX-13/75 [solid colour camou pattern] (operated by Singapore Armed Forces)
  • French Tree (Tier VIII Light): AMX-13/90 (with 75mm SA50 gun) [solid colour camou pattern] (same tank as AMX-13/75, but it is confirmed that Singapore AMX-13 did *not* ever have the 90mm F3 gun)
  • British Tree (Tier VIII Medium):  Centurion Mk I (with Centurion Mk III turret) [solid colour camou pattern] (operated by Singapore Armed Forces)
  • British Tree (Tier IX Medium):  Centurion Mk 7/1 (with Centurion Mk 7 turret) [solid colour camou pattern] (operated by Singapore Armed Forces)

 

My research also confirmed the following points:

 

  • Singapore did *not* operate any SPGs until the modern Primus.
  • Singapore tanks did not seem to have camouflage paint, preferring to use camouflage netting only instead & preferring solid colours rather than patterns.
  • The British did not operate any tracked vehicles during the Confrontation (1963 to 1966) in South East Asia.  Instead they operated armoured cars like the Saladin.

 

The interesting part is that, if you noticed, we now have a Tech Tree going from Tier II to Tier IX, missing only Tier IV to VI.  Note that the turret module & gun module matters where indicated, as sometimes, changing to a different turret or gun made it a different tank.

 

I, myself, am grinding specifically towards the tanks listed above (not easy since a few are high tier) and then spending a tiny amount of gold to paste the Singapore flag on them as a decal.  I have achieved this for the AMX-13/75 (yes!).  Now working on the Centurions.

 

Any corrections, pls let me know & I will amend.  Hope this can be stickied for future reference by Singapore players.  Onward, Singapore!

 

Additional Project 2013 -- Post-WWII British Tanks in Singapore

[assistance requested]

 

Although it is confirmed British only had the Bren Gun Carriers *during* WWII, it is not yet confirmed that they *had* tanks in Malaya *after* WWII?  I believe they learnt from their WWII mistake of not having tanks in the jungle & brought in some tank units.  I tried researching, but all I can find is a list of the British armour units in Malaya (not Singapore specifically) during the Malayan Emergency.

Important Note: This list came from a website, so I take no credit for it, except for editorial corrections.
 

Royal Armoured Corps

  • 1st King's Dragoon Guards: Served in Malaya June 1956 to Summer 1958 stationed at Johore baru, taking over from 11th hussars.
  • 4th Queen's Own Hussars: A Squadron, Ipoh Raub Hong Kong. C Squadron, on active service in Malaya 1948-1951.
  • 11th Hussars (Prince Albert's Own)
  • 12th Royal Lancers (Prince of Wales): Stationed at Ipoh (there were also squadrons at Taiping, KL, Port Swetenham). Oct 1950 to September 1951. Commanding Officer Colonel Horsburgh-Porter.
  • 13th/18th Royal Hussars (Queen Mary's Own): Ipoh north Malaya and Nee Soon Singapore in 1959-60. During 1951/2 13/18th Hussars were at Rasah Camp Seremban and a staff sergeant received a Military Medal. They later moved to a camp just north of Seremban. The RSM was called Vonk.
  • REME attached to 13/18 Hussars: B squadron. in IPOH north Malaya , July 1959-Dec 1960.
  • 1st Royal Dragoons: Located in ipoh, perak,malaya 1960.
  • 15th/19th The King's Royal Hussars: 15/19th Hussars served in Malaya from 1954 to 1957.  Under the command of lt-colonel Wyldebore Smith until 1956 hq and one sabre suadron were at Ipoh the other squadrons were based at Taiping and Raub.
  • REME attached to 15/19 King's Royal Hussars: served 1954-1957 in both A and C squadron at Ipoh, Raub Kulim, Kajang, Taiping, Tanjong Rambutan, Cameron highlands. Sgt Burgess A sqd


Any help in researching British tanks in Singapore *after* WWII is appreciated.   : )

 

Additional Project 2016 -- Camouflage Pattern on Singapore Tech Tree Tanks

[assistance requested]

 

British WWII Tanks -- [still unknown]

Japanese WWII Tanks -- Some info was received that they used standard 1942 three-tone (with yellow band on the tank in Orchard road) with no special adaption for the Malayan Campaign.  References:

 

http://www.combinedf...m/Singapore.htm

https://ipmstoronto....harvey-low1.pdf

 

Singapore Post-Independence Tanks -- Some info was received confirming the post-independence SAF camouflage pattern to be solid dark-green colour with a camouflage net.  This information has been updated in the master list above.  Could anyone confirm the camouflage pattern for the other tanks in the Singapore tank tech tree above?

 


Yiren.


Edited by Yiren, 28 August 2019 - 10:05 PM.


TE_Moemiji_ #2 Posted 17 May 2013 - 11:57 AM

    Major

  • Beta-Tester
  • 8302 battles
  • 2,563
  • [DPS] DPS
  • Member since:
    03-09-2012
The 1375's have been upgraded to 1390's iirc.


Honk Honk


TE_Deathskyz #3 Posted 17 May 2013 - 12:01 PM

    Major

  • Beta-Tester
  • 14951 battles
  • 2,977
  • [DPS] DPS
  • Member since:
    03-08-2012

View PostNisa, on 17 May 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

The 1375's have been upgraded to 1390's iirc.

According to Nikolai69 they are still using the 75mm.


Legend Has It That The Nyan Hetzer Is Still Flying Somewhere In The Universe In Search Of The Nyan Cat...
Do Not Worry About The Artillery Shell With Your Name On It. Instead, Worry About The Artillery Shell With A "To Whom It May Concern"...


Yiren #4 Posted 17 May 2013 - 12:03 PM

    Corporal

  • Beta-Tester
  • 73 battles
  • 49
  • Member since:
    07-24-2012

View PostNisa, on 17 May 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

The 1375's have been upgraded to 1390's iirc.

Thanks, Nisa.

If I'm not wrong, our AMX were upgraded in various ways & redesignated AMX13-SM1, but I think they retained 75mm gun.  I found this reference: http://www.army-guid...roduct1199.html

Do you have any reference?  I want to make sure the list is accurate.


Yiren.

Edited by Yiren, 17 May 2013 - 12:03 PM.


TE_Moemiji_ #5 Posted 17 May 2013 - 12:17 PM

    Major

  • Beta-Tester
  • 8302 battles
  • 2,563
  • [DPS] DPS
  • Member since:
    03-09-2012
Not sure about my post,I've heard there are some upgunned 90mm variants for extra firepower.


Honk Honk


Yiren #6 Posted 17 May 2013 - 12:36 PM

    Corporal

  • Beta-Tester
  • 73 battles
  • 49
  • Member since:
    07-24-2012

View PostNisa, on 17 May 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

Not sure about my post,I've heard there are some upgunned 90mm variants for extra firepower.

OK.  I'll add it to the list first, noting "further confirmation needed".

Edited by Yiren, 03 June 2013 - 01:12 PM.


76LXXVI #7 Posted 17 May 2013 - 12:51 PM

    Sergeant

  • Beta-Tester
  • 13709 battles
  • 104
  • Member since:
    05-16-2012
Some documented changes:

http://www.stengg.co...09hDGRXgLLU.pdf
http://www.militaryp...l=1#post3319651

Yiren #8 Posted 17 May 2013 - 12:57 PM

    Corporal

  • Beta-Tester
  • 73 battles
  • 49
  • Member since:
    07-24-2012

View Post76LXXVI, on 17 May 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:


Good stuff.

TwoOneSierra #9 Posted 17 May 2013 - 04:18 PM

    Staff sergeant

  • Beta-Tester
  • 18574 battles
  • 385
  • [FLUKE] FLUKE
  • Member since:
    03-09-2012

View PostYiren, on 17 May 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

Thanks, Nisa.

If I'm not wrong, our AMX were upgraded in various ways & redesignated AMX13-SM1, but I think they retained 75mm gun.  I found this reference: http://www.army-guid...roduct1199.html

Do you have any reference?  I want to make sure the list is accurate.


Yiren.

im not familiar with the Armoured Formation but i don't think the AMXs were upgraded to 90mm guns, but there was a batch of AMX-10P that was using 90mm gun, there's one on display at SAFTI

The game is fine. Its the add-on, between the screen and the chair that is the problem.


Yiren #10 Posted 20 May 2013 - 01:15 PM

    Corporal

  • Beta-Tester
  • 73 battles
  • 49
  • Member since:
    07-24-2012

View PostTwoOneSierra, on 17 May 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

im not familiar with the Armoured Formation but i don't think the AMXs were upgraded to 90mm guns, but there was a batch of AMX-10P that was using 90mm gun, there's one on display at SAFTI

I checked on Wiki & saw a pix also:  http://en.wikipedia....-10P_PAC_90.jpg

Hmmm...  This is interesting.  If even an IFV has a 90mm, would it imply that at least some AMX-13 (which would take on an even more offensive role) would likely have 90mm guns as well, as Nisa postulated?  Quite strange if the IFVs are more heavily armed than the battle tanks.

Anyone else able to confirm this point?


Yiren.

Yekaterina #11 Posted 20 May 2013 - 01:43 PM

    Major

  • Beta-Tester
  • 5998 battles
  • 3,961
  • Member since:
    12-05-2012
The AMX13s werent the main combat force after the mid 70s when it acquired Centurions. The 90mm fitting for the AMX-10s didnt happen until after Centurions were brought in and AMX13s relegated to secondary roles rather than the primary MBT.

-Yekaterina

If winning and losing are both irrelevant, then win!

Моё судно на воздушной подушке полно угрей


JagdDrache #12 Posted 21 May 2013 - 02:19 PM

    Sergeant

  • Beta-Tester
  • 12691 battles
  • 114
  • [VERTX] VERTX
  • Member since:
    07-09-2012
I thought the Tempest are classified?


panzerkreiger39 #13 Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:33 AM

    Corporal

  • Member
  • 18888 battles
  • 61
  • [TACT] TACT
  • Member since:
    03-21-2013
Interesting, didn't know we had centurions

Yirenaud #14 Posted 24 May 2013 - 04:43 PM

    Private

  • Beta-Tester
  • 1206 battles
  • 9
  • Member since:
    07-24-2012
Interesting.

View PostJagdDrache, on 21 May 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

I thought the Tempest are classified?

View Postpanzerkreiger39, on 23 May 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

Interesting, didn't know we had centurions

Info already out on Wikipedia, I believe:  http://en.wikipedia..../Centurion_tank

Edited by Yirenaud, 25 May 2013 - 01:20 AM.


Yiren #15 Posted 24 May 2013 - 04:48 PM

    Corporal

  • Beta-Tester
  • 73 battles
  • 49
  • Member since:
    07-24-2012

View PostYekaterina, on 20 May 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

The AMX13s werent the main combat force after the mid 70s when it acquired Centurions. The 90mm fitting for the AMX-10s didnt happen until after Centurions were brought in and AMX13s relegated to secondary roles rather than the primary MBT.

OK.  It seems the consensus is that we didn't operate AMX-13/90.  I'll leave the tank in the list just for a little longer, in case someone else has new definitive information.
I have a new question to try to flesh out our Singapore tech tree a bit (esp between the 1950s to the 1970s):

What tanks did the *British* operate in Singapore after WWII & before our Independence?

I am thinking that if I change the premise to tanks operated *in* Singapore (the territory) by whoever is the government of the day, then this allows our tech tree to be a little more complete & to have tanks starting Tier III (Chi-Ha) and going all the way up to Tier IX (Centurion Mk 7/1).  Thus this question hopefully fills out the current Tier IV to VI gap in the list.


Yiren.

Supertoad76 #16 Posted 01 June 2013 - 09:14 PM

    Sergeant

  • Beta-Tester
  • 16238 battles
  • 110
  • [SAF] SAF
  • Member since:
    07-06-2012
The brits did not have tanks in asia... only the Bren Gun Carrier.

The Tempest is bought from the only non Muslim nation in the middle east.... so the specs are the country's
Respect is earned, never demanded

MonocerosNana #17 Posted 02 June 2013 - 02:39 PM

    Sergeant

  • Beta-Tester
  • 25067 battles
  • 226
  • [SIN] SIN
  • Member since:
    03-09-2012
Tempest came from Israel sho't so it's their specs

#2506neverforget


Yiren #18 Posted 02 June 2013 - 04:39 PM

    Corporal

  • Beta-Tester
  • 73 battles
  • 49
  • Member since:
    07-24-2012

View PostSupertoad76, on 01 June 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

The brits did not have tanks in asia... only the Bren Gun Carrier.

Yes, confirmed British only had the Bren Gun Carriers *during* WWII.  But it is also confirmed that they *had* tanks in Malaya *after* WWII?  I believe they learnt from their WWII mistake of not having tanks in the jungle & brought in some tank units.  I tried researching, but all I can find is a list of the British armour units in Malaya (not Singapore specifically) during the Malayan Emergency.

Important Note: This list came from a website, so I take no credit for it, except for editorial corrections.

ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
  • 1st King's Dragoon Guards: Served in Malaya June 1956 to Summer 1958 stationed at Johore baru, taking over from 11th hussars.
  • 4th Queen's Own Hussars: A Squadron, Ipoh Raub Hong Kong. C Squadron, on active service in Malaya 1948-1951.
  • 11th Hussars (Prince Albert's Own)
  • 12th Royal Lancers (Prince of Wales): Stationed at Ipoh (there were also squadrons at Taiping, KL, Port Swetenham). Oct 1950 to September 1951. Commanding Officer Colonel Horsburgh-Porter.
  • 13th/18th Royal Hussars (Queen Mary's Own): Ipoh north Malaya and Nee Soon Singapore in 1959-60. During 1951/2 13/18th Hussars were at Rasah Camp Seremban and a staff sergeant received a Military Medal. They later moved to a camp just north of Seremban. The RSM was called Vonk.
  • REME attached to 13/18 Hussars: B squadron. in IPOH north Malaya , July 1959-Dec 1960.
  • 1st Royal Dragoons: Located in ipoh, perak,malaya 1960.
  • 15th/19th The King's Royal Hussars: 15/19th Hussars served in Malaya from 1954 to 1957.  Under the command of lt-colonel Wyldebore Smith until 1956 hq and one sabre suadron were at Ipoh the other squadrons were based at Taiping and Raub.
  • REME attached to 15/19 King's Royal Hussars: served 1954-1957 in both A and C squadron at Ipoh, Raub Kulim, Kajang, Taiping, Tanjong Rambutan, Cameron highlands. Sgt Burgess A sqd

Any help in researching British tanks in Singapore *after* WWII is appreciated.   : )


Yiren.

Yekaterina #19 Posted 02 June 2013 - 04:56 PM

    Major

  • Beta-Tester
  • 5998 battles
  • 3,961
  • Member since:
    12-05-2012
13/18th Hussars were equipped with later marks of the Cromwell while in Malaya iirc.

-Yekaterina

If winning and losing are both irrelevant, then win!

Моё судно на воздушной подушке полно угрей


TE_Deathskyz #20 Posted 02 June 2013 - 05:20 PM

    Major

  • Beta-Tester
  • 14951 battles
  • 2,977
  • [DPS] DPS
  • Member since:
    03-08-2012

View PostYekaterina, on 02 June 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

13/18th Hussars were equipped with later marks of the Cromwell while in Malaya iirc.

You almost forgot Yeka. We have airdrop arty!


Legend Has It That The Nyan Hetzer Is Still Flying Somewhere In The Universe In Search Of The Nyan Cat...
Do Not Worry About The Artillery Shell With Your Name On It. Instead, Worry About The Artillery Shell With A "To Whom It May Concern"...





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users