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Leopard 2 , most succesful modern NATO MBT ?


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_Aigis_ #1 Posted 21 July 2014 - 11:31 AM

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With weapons , armor and equipments that rival the US and british tanks , a decent price tag and was used by more than 10 nations and having the most sexiest design

is the Leopard 2 to be consider the most successful NATO modern MBT of the current generation ?

 

and remember what i mean is "The Most Successful" NOT "The Best"

 

 


 

 


DanLBob #2 Posted 21 July 2014 - 11:44 AM

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A large part of its "success" is based upon a sell off by the Bundeswher. A great tank nonetheless and I will continue grind XP on my Leo 1 just in case WG ever decides smoothbores are not in fact the work of the devil.

 

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_Aigis_ #3 Posted 21 July 2014 - 11:50 AM

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View PostDanLBob, on 21 July 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

A large part of its "success" is based upon a sell off by the Bundeswher. A great tank nonetheless and I will continue grind XP on my Leo 1 just in case WG ever decides smoothbores are not in fact the work of the devil.

 

DanJar


It was a bit cheaper and without the chobham armor  it has less export restriction , thats why it sold pretty well.


Edited by IJN_Nagato, 21 July 2014 - 11:51 AM.

 

 


Mudguts_Cheese #4 Posted 21 July 2014 - 12:42 PM

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I agree, it's sexy as hell, and I'm a huge fan of the German fire boxes box tanks in WoT, 'most successful' is a little hard to define...

Export-wise the Leo is ahead - with about 16 countries operating them (17 if you include the Netherlands, who on-sold theirs to places like Canada). The Abrams is currently in 5 countries outside the US, and 4 of those are in the Mid-east - Iraq, Saudi, Kuwait, Egypt. (The other is Australia, who tested the Leo 2 in 2003 and chose the Murican steel)

 

About 3,500 Leo 2's have built and deployed, but  over 9000  M1 Abrams variants have been built and utilized, (admittedly nearly 8000 of those in the US Army and USMC)

The US Military alone have 5,900-ish Abrams currently on the books, and the guys using them aren't flooding the world with complaints and questions like "why oh why can't we have Leo's?"

 

Personally I like the Leo, always have since my first time in the original Leopard 1's.



karl0ssus1 #5 Posted 21 July 2014 - 12:56 PM

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It really does depend how you measure success. Sticking to the NATO tanks, Challenger 2 is probably the most successful based on combat record, while for sheer proliferation and active deployment Abrams is top dog (arguments could be made that its combat record is as good as the Challenger, the Yanks did put a lot more of them in harms way for a pretty small number of casualties). Leo has done well in the European market, but hasnt seen a lot of active deployment, although it has been fairly well regarded when it has.

 

I think we can agree that the Leclerc is the least successful by all those criteria though :trollface:


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Husky1 #6 Posted 21 July 2014 - 12:59 PM

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DanLBob #7 Posted 21 July 2014 - 01:13 PM

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View Postkarl0ssus1, on 21 July 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

It really does depend how you measure success. Sticking to the NATO tanks, Challenger 2 is probably the most successful based on combat record, while for sheer proliferation and active deployment Abrams is top dog (arguments could be made that its combat record is as good as the Challenger, the Yanks did put a lot more of them in harms way for a pretty small number of casualties). Leo has done well in the European market, but hasnt seen a lot of active deployment, although it has been fairly well regarded when it has.

 

I think we can agree that the Leclerc is the least successful by all those criteria though :trollface:


Nope Ariete fares worse than Leclerc. The Leclerc has sold to UAE. And the Leo 2 has sold into more than just the European market.

 

DanJar



Politx_killer #8 Posted 21 July 2014 - 02:40 PM

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Aussie water tank. Most successful tank.

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AKASHA178 #9 Posted 21 July 2014 - 02:42 PM

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View PostIJN_Nagato, on 21 July 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

With weapons , armor and equipments that rival the US and british tanks , a decent price tag and was used by more than 10 nations and having the most sexiest design

is the Leopard 2 to be consider the most successful NATO modern MBT of the current generation ?

 

and remember what i mean is "The Most Successful" NOT "The Best"

 

 

The Leo 2 is more expensive to produce 


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Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #10 Posted 21 July 2014 - 02:43 PM

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Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

The "used by most number of nations" is hardly a useable criteria. F-22 is only used by USA and so it's bad?

 

Have you guys thought about the other way instead, the Ace card would be kept to your country only to kill stuff when needed, while if something you know can be destroyed easily, you won't care who and how many people have it yea?


Edited by Bluefunk, 21 July 2014 - 02:45 PM.

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Ezz #11 Posted 21 July 2014 - 02:45 PM

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The criteria for success need further refinement. From the OP there is clearly some contention w.r.t. equipment, weaponry, price and use in various countries - so clearly sexiness is its defining quality.

Edited by Ezz, 21 July 2014 - 02:45 PM.

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AKASHA178 #12 Posted 21 July 2014 - 02:48 PM

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Leopard 2A6 cost per unit for the year 2007: US$5.74Million

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karl0ssus1 #13 Posted 21 July 2014 - 02:50 PM

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View PostEzz, on 21 July 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

The criteria for success need further refinement. From the OP there is clearly some contention w.r.t. equipment, weaponry, price and use in various countries - so clearly sexiness is its defining quality.

SU101 Most successful tonk ever?


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Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #14 Posted 21 July 2014 - 02:52 PM

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Challenger has good records, but that could be because it's a 80% WR tier 2 sealclubber with 200 battles, while M1 has 7k battles with 60% WR. I'll leave it to you to decide which is better.

 

Still M1 cheats in most of its battles, a tank that has always been fighting battles that actually matter would be Merkava.

 

Really, without fighting, how would you know how strong these tanks are. KV-1 was considered bad because there weren't many tank-vs-tank battles, but these HT that came before T-34 pwn shyt in tier 5 even with the 76mm or 57mm. Plus most of the battle outcome is decided by strategy and skill, just like how we do that in this game.


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Ezz #15 Posted 21 July 2014 - 02:52 PM

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View Postkarl0ssus1, on 21 July 2014 - 04:50 PM, said:

SU101 Most successful tonk ever?

I reckon the 430 has it covered. Great success. That line did have some lookers tho.


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DanLBob #16 Posted 21 July 2014 - 02:53 PM

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View PostPolitx_killer, on 21 July 2014 - 02:40 PM, said:

Aussie water tank. Most successful tank.


That's just a furphy.

 

DanJar



_Aigis_ #17 Posted 21 July 2014 - 03:45 PM

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View PostAKASHA178, on 21 July 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

The Leo 2 is more expensive to produce 


not as expensive as M1 and not as hard to procure as Challenger 2 which has the highly classified chobnam armor


 

 


AKASHA178 #18 Posted 21 July 2014 - 04:11 PM

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View PostIJN_Nagato, on 21 July 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:


not as expensive as M1 and not as hard to procure as Challenger 2 which has the highly classified chobnam armor

yea but still consider to be expansive tank


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Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #19 Posted 21 July 2014 - 04:33 PM

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Some people still think that price = cost?

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crazytimes #20 Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:06 AM

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I would consider being successful as a function of some kind of actual challenge. Contested deployment with armour on armour fighting, battlefield recovery/repair, logistic chain utilisation, service/repair in operational environment, crew survivability and so forth would be the challenge.

 

How many modern platforms have actually seen that? No point talking about how pretty something looks in barracks and on paper if it is an unrecoverable mobility kill the first time it sees an IED and it has to be destroyed in place. 






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