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My opinion about the VK 45.02P buff in 9.2

vk 4502 porsche maus pub stomp heavy tank vk b vk p 9.2 stronk

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BLTzSam #1 Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:16 PM

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This is a somewhat serious article, so if you're not interested in reading opinions, discussion and analysis, I bolded the important bits.

 

So, the Vk buff in the CT passed. To anyone who is unaware, the VK 45.02P was rebalanced in 9.2. Details are as follows:

UFP(Upper Front/Glacis plate): 170mm -> 200mm

LFP(Lower Front/Glacis place): 150mm -> 200mm

Turret Roof : 40mm->60mm

Bow machinegun weakspot (somewhat) removed

 

^So what does the above mean? THis is what I've been able to gather after blasting through 20-30 games in a row in the VK since the patch:

1. UFP/LFP changes mean that the VK's hull is now almost impenetrable to ANY gun in the game aside from t10 prem. With the armor angle taken into consideration, both hull plates have >300mm effective thickness. Thats MONSTROUSLY good. I;ve had everything from t10 gold to WTF e100s bouncing their whole clips off the front. the machinegun weakspot is still a weakspot though, its now considered to be the same piece or armor as the hull, but its almost FLAT where the gun sticks out, so keep that in mind.

2. Turret roof is no longer overmatched by most guns in the game. Excluding the DeathStar, nothing can really pen the turret roof frontally. Cupola is still a weakspot, but E-75s can no longer blow holes in your head while you're struggling to laze his hatch.

 

To summarize, the VK's front armor is now straight up better than the E-75s and even arguably the E-100s and the Maus because of the lack of big glacis plate weakspots. Vk players will now find themselves cackling with glee when everything just bounces and bounces.... I know i have.

 

Is it OP currently? Well, right now its still hard to judge because the players are still struggling to figure out tactics to beat it. I think such an early judgement call is unfair and biased. Everyone is still trying to blow holes in my lower plate and failing. I'll watch and wait for a couple of months before making my mind up. Also, the basic limitations of the VK still apply. It's got a rear mounted turret, its hellishly slow, its DPM is lousy and its side armor is only good enough to autobounce frontally.

 

What can the VK do now? Well, i've had success playing it in 2 ways:

1. The Battering Ram of DOOM. Lead the charge and drive headfirst into 7 enemy tanks and watch them bounce and bounce and bounce. The new VK does not care for you peasants. On a narrow choke, or with enough support that the enemies cant exploit your vulnerable flanks, the VK can really ruin the 9-0 line HT ball on Redshire or any other city map.

2. Area Denial. If you have insufficient support, hunker down and play Bunker Simulator 2014 down a choke. However, this is generally a 1 way trip because eventually, people will either start vomiting gold (and bounce most of it anyways) or just push you. But I had a game where i held down 2 IS-7s, an IS-8 and a AMX 50 100 all by myself and by the time i was dead, their team was down 12-3 because their heavies were too occupied. Honourabru sacrifice!

 

IMO, i think this change is pretty huge, not just for us Maus grinders but also for HT gameplay. The VK now has a nice niche to hold at Tier 9 as the brick wall. This is a tank which cannot simply be dewedged frontally through sheer perseverance and gold reliably. Unless the VKs team completely donk out, removing the VK would basically be throwing 3-4 top tier tanks away for 5 minutes That would pretty much screw your team over.

 

Now, there is a legitimate need for your team to succeed. The way I've played it, currently the best way to kill the beast is to flank it, or pin it there until support arrives (via the other flanks winning). And this isnt hard to do. The VK is basically a big credit/XP pinata once it is outflanked. It simply cannot defend itself from more than 1 direction. Try it.

 

And i think this change is amazing for future gameplay (theoratically). I think Wargaming has indirectly taken a big step to motivate team based tactics in the game. I've faced down t110e5s and IS-7s, tanks that are among the best in 1v1 situations, and i am only average (1000 eff). Under the right situations (described above), the VK is so lethal that it kind of breaks the game in its current meta of "every man for himself". On the other hand, there is a clear way to counter it. The only reason i could have won those 5v1 encounters is because they were all trying to take me on by themselves. If one of those ISs had just tracked me and gone around, I would have been wrecked instantly.

 

I know there will be a counter argument about "noob teams" and "selfish players" but i personally dont think im asking to much right now. 2-3 tanks with some slight coordination shouldnt be too hard in T9-10 games. Maybe Wargaming will have some motivation now to give the game a few more team oriented features.

 

What do you guys think? I welcome any discussion in this thread. Thank you to anyone who was willing to read the whole passage, i know its longer than your average weekend post. This is my 1st post, so i cant get everything right.

 

TL;DR - VK is now a REALLY strong tank to fight from the front. I've taken on 3-4 tanks in 1 shot and won because they were all selfish and trying to win for themselves. Is it OP? I dont think so because the VK has huge weaknesses that can EASILY be exploited like it's terribad mobility and sluggish gun. Therefore, I think the VK will force teamwork among average players and is a really potentially strong 1st step by Wargaming to improve the quality of pub gameplay and motivate team tactics. Or, people could just cry OPOPNERF and it'll be batted down 2 patches from now.


Edited by BLTzSam, 02 August 2014 - 07:14 PM.


Steeltrap #2 Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:23 PM

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If you show your side at less than 70 degrees, lots of guns can get through.

 

Apart from the MG port, the vision port on the other side of the glacis is even weaker (~170 or so).

 

Lots won't realise it, but it has a weakness behind the mudguards just as the Maus used to. Quite possible to have only 90mm effective there.

 

For all of that, a lot of "point in general direction and click" will have a lot of problems. For a slow tank with low DPM, that's how it should be.

 

With so few playing it for so long because it's been relatively garbage and leads to the Maus, however, a lot of people will have NFI what to do. Be funny to see QQ threads about a German heavy being too GOOD, wouldn't it?


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timwahoo #3 Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:27 PM

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Thats how armour used to be before sprem

mttspiii #4 Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:27 PM

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From what I've seen, a rather determined enemy could simply bull-rush the VK and shoot at its sides. Or just lay an ambush and shoot its very soft sides. Or cupola.

 

So far though, it's a tough nut to crack, able to reliably bounce (based on experience last night): WTpzIV, all tier 9 heavies, FV215B 183, T110E3, and a bunch of other invisi-TDs.

 

In my experience, it's better as a bunker though. Pushing too far forward risks opening your sides, which is in no way reliable at all. Or that may be because I simply don't have a decent gun (still grinding for the Tiger II gun)


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Steeltrap #5 Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:28 PM

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View Posttimwahoo, on 01 August 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

Thats how armour used to be before sprem

 

I'd say something but everyone tells me they don't want to hear it.

 

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Ezz #6 Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:29 PM

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What's its traverse like? It strikes me that if it can keep an enemy in front of it it will be very effective.

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mttspiii #7 Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:33 PM

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View PostEzz, on 01 August 2014 - 01:29 PM, said:

What's its traverse like? It strikes me that if it can keep an enemy in front of it it will be very effective.

 

Haven't tested that properly so far. Usually pubbies just fling gold at the LFP until they realize it's damn-near impenetrable, and still keep flinging gold. Or backing up to ask for support from TDs, which bounce off as well.

 

I do remember being able to keep my front against an ST-I going downhill, but that's not really a very useful fact is it?


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Fendalton #8 Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:36 PM

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View Posttimwahoo, on 01 August 2014 - 05:27 PM, said:

Thats how armour used to be before sprem

 

This. This. This.

 

I rage quit at the VK 4502 A. but these buffs want me to get the KV 4502 B. It's rear mounted turret is ideal for side scraping, but that frontal armour, now people might actually play this tank


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KiwiPanzer #9 Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:38 PM

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Had some good battles in it so far.  It is a bouncer ...

timwahoo #10 Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:38 PM

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I always liked the tank, but man that was ages ago i think i'd grinded it before the E75 even got released

IJN_Nagato #11 Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:42 PM

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So is it better than E75 now?

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timwahoo #12 Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:48 PM

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View PostIJN_Nagato, on 01 August 2014 - 05:42 AM, said:

So is it better than E75 now?

I highly highly doubt it. E-75 is basically the best tier 9 / in my onion the best tank in the game. The VK still has all the significant drawbacks of its design. But it sounds like it at last has a niche or 2 - sounds perfect for city pushes & holds



mttspiii #13 Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:49 PM

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View PostIJN_Nagato, on 01 August 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

So is it better than E75 now?

 

Lol of course no. E-75 is still more mobile and still have better (moving) sidescrape ability.

 

VK also has gun depression issue


Edited by mttspiii, 01 August 2014 - 01:49 PM.

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AdrianK #14 Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:51 PM

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So it's now sort of the HT equivalent of the JagdTiger?

Ezz #15 Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:52 PM

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View PostAdrianK, on 01 August 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

So it's now sort of the HT equivalent of the JagdTiger?

?


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timwahoo #16 Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:53 PM

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View PostAdrianK, on 01 August 2014 - 05:51 AM, said:

So it's now sort of the HT equivalent of the JagdTiger?

 

No



fire70 #17 Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:54 PM

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WG'ing may have to seriously consider bringing back the old IS4 at tier 9 so we have something to stop this potential OP machine...

 

 


lazyWombat, on 01 September 2014 - 04:46 PM, said: WG needs to ask PANZA to stop moving their chips in Asgard for one day. That's it.

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Steeltrap #18 Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:57 PM

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View Postfire70, on 01 August 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

WG'ing may have to seriously consider bringing back the old IS4 at tier 9 

 

LOL, that thing was probably THE poster child for defining OP.


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Ezz #19 Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:59 PM

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View PostSteeltrap, on 01 August 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

 

LOL, that thing was probably THE poster child for defining OP.

So given the maus is weaker frontally, does this mean it will be moved to tier 8 after all?


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IJN_Nagato #20 Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:04 PM

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Thankful its not, having my E75 become obsolete due to some buff ain't funny

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