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Strongholds, The Bad, The Worse, The Ugly


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TimberWolffe #1 Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:00 AM

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First off, Ill start by saying that if you actually have success in strongholds then you are extremely lucky, and should buy a lottery ticket immediately. Now then, to the rest of the post.

 

TAW is a relatively large clan, and we want to be able to have something nice for the players like credit boosts and experience boosts in the strongholds. Only problem with that is that strongholds show just how wide the gap is between premium and non-premium accounts. With our most experienced members and a large degree of confidence, we started up a detachment and charged into battle...only to be absolutely decimated by the strongest of tier 6 premium tanks using gold rounds, purchased crews and the best equipment you can buy. Not only that, but after we as an entire team only managed to get 2 kills out of all 4 battles we participated in, we were all losing roughly 10,000 credits per battle. Some lost even more from spending credits on gold rounds, only to bounce off the armor of some of the tanks we faced.

 

Now, some of you will be reading this and thinking "Ha, what an ass, complaining about not being good at a game." And I can see why you would think that, but when we tried we had players with a 75% overall WN8 and 10k battles who couldn't get a hit in. The game mode needs balancing, whether through more credits in battle or a larger industrial resource pool, or even disallowing certain tanks because of their high armor, alpha and DPM.


TANKS! BIG TANKS! SMALL TANKS! MEDIUM TANKS!

 


Death2846 #2 Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:06 AM

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Strongholds is extremely team orientated. Most of the teams that ACP have faced have largely crumbled due constant communication between our members (TeamSpeak), although the fact that they're decent players is nice - had two guys pull it off against four yesterday (don't ask me how it got to that stage, though). Also helps when we have a caller.

 

Do you guys use TeamSpeak, or something similar, when doing Strongholds?

 

Spoiler

 



SaltyMemeMan_Adzo #3 Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:12 AM

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Players with 75% huh?



SaltyMemeMan_CAMMA #4 Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:16 AM

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Relatively large clan with 22 members. Overall sub 49% WR & and average wn8 rating of 600. Yeah, OK. so that's that out of the way.

 

 "but when we tried we had players with a 75% overall WN8 and 10k battles who couldn't get a hit in."

you have literally nobody in your clan with above 53%WR and nobody with above 1100 wn8. They couldn't get a hit in because THEY ARE BAD. So that's that out of the way.......

 

gold rounds are available for credits. Get good you might have some credits to burn. Purchasing crews doesn't make a difference in the slightest. If you play a lot of games with a free crew, you will eventually have 100% crew with some crew skills. Same goes for purchased crews, just quicker to reach more crew skills. Get a job buy gold buy crew.  OP premium tanks? At tier 6? like... What exactly? If you are firing gold and bouncing. AIM BETTER.

 

You should probably have a good look at your own clans gameplay before questioning wargamings game balance. 

 

Its great that you are padding other clans stronghold WR. But really I think your members should focus on being less detrimental to teams chances of winning in pubs first.


Edited by cammaman, 10 August 2014 - 10:18 AM.


Jinzo #5 Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:20 AM

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22 total members is not large. It's probably one of the smallest clans here.

The highest win rate of any of your players is 53%, not 75%, while that same player has a wn8 of only 700 - which tells me that the 53% is pure luck.

 

The majority of the players I see are very bad at tanks. Expect a lot more losses.



TimberWolffe #6 Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:22 AM

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Okay, let me start by saying that we did have a guy with 75%, he has since left to focus on studies. TAW is a global clan with over 2000 members. Not all members are focused on the SEA WoT server.

Yes, we have Teamspeak, and we communicated a lot.

Saying our players couldn't get a shot in because they were bad is just plain wrong. I, in my hellcat, couldn't penetrate even the smallest of tanks, and my XVM told me that the other teams were only using gold rounds. I am aware they are available for credits, however I's rather try to keep my losses within the 10,000 credit mark rather than spend 12,000 credits per shot when it's guaranteed to not pay out. The truth of the matter is that strongholds are a pay-to-win situation, which has discouraged TAW from doing...anything involving them.


TANKS! BIG TANKS! SMALL TANKS! MEDIUM TANKS!

 


Skyguy7567 #7 Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:27 AM

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Been having that too.

 

Many of the members in the TROLL clan are relatively new or inexperienced, which only adds to the issue that the KV-1S tanks are dominating the battlefield. Mobility, firepower, armor, hitpoints. This gamemode enhances the OP-ness of the 1S by having tons of them together and face less enemies. The 1S should be banned from Strongholds until it's fixed. It basically kills a tank every 5 seconds (I've never seen a clan which put less than 3 1S in their lineup)

 

I find my Hellcat completely obsolete against the 1S, they're just too fast, too agile and too powerful to stop a rush, forget defending.


Do u even WoT m8?


SaltyMemeMan_Adzo #8 Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:28 AM

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View PostTimberWolffe, on 10 August 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

Okay, let me start by saying that we did have a guy with 75%, he has since left to focus on studies. TAW is a global clan with over 2000 members. Not all members are focused on the SEA WoT server.

Yes, we have Teamspeak, and we communicated a lot.

Saying our players couldn't get a shot in because they were bad is just plain wrong. I, in my hellcat, couldn't penetrate even the smallest of tanks, and my XVM told me that the other teams were only using gold rounds. I am aware they are available for credits, however I's rather try to keep my losses within the 10,000 credit mark rather than spend 12,000 credits per shot when it's guaranteed to not pay out. The truth of the matter is that strongholds are a pay-to-win situation, which has discouraged TAW from doing...anything involving them.


Well I call BS seeing as according to http://wotcs.com/ only 2 people have left your clan since the introduction of stongholds, one of them a 48%er and the other a 50%er...



SaltyMemeMan_CAMMA #9 Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:32 AM

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You couldn't penetrate BECAUSE YOU ARE BAD

 

XVM does NOT tell you who is using gold rounds and who is not.

 

they are not pay to win. GOOD ORGANISED TEAMS WIN. Honestly I have little to no doubt top clans would beat you at tier 6 strongholds with tier 5's because your players are terrible.

 

are you legit? Are these actually your misguided views on the game or are you just trolling? Because honestly I did not know people could be this stupid.

 

and I just looked, you have had no member with 75% WR leave your clan in the month of August or July. So.. Please keep lying.



SaltyMemeMan_CAMMA #10 Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:34 AM

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View PostSkyguy7567, on 10 August 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

Been having that too.

 

Many of the members in the TROLL clan are relatively new or inexperienced, which only adds to the issue that the KV-1S tanks are dominating the battlefield. Mobility, firepower, armor, hitpoints. This gamemode enhances the OP-ness of the 1S by having tons of them together and face less enemies. The 1S should be banned from Strongholds until it's fixed. It basically kills a tank every 5 seconds (I've never seen a clan which put less than 3 1S in their lineup)

 

I find my Hellcat completely obsolete against the 1S, they're just too fast, too agile and too powerful to stop a rush, forget defending.

Seriously? Hellcat with STANDARD AMMO goes straight through the front. Hellcat has higher camo values. Better ROF....

 

this is beyond a joke. This server summed up in a thread. Wow.



Skyguy7567 #11 Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:36 AM

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View Postcammaman, on 10 August 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

 

XVM does NOT tell you who is using gold rounds and who is not.

 

Actually some XVMs come with a damage indicator. I use J1mbo's XVM, and it comes with a damage indicator that accurately tells you the type of shell, amount of damage and who shot you. 

 

So far it's accurate.


Do u even WoT m8?


SaltyMemeMan_CAMMA #12 Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:37 AM

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View PostSkyguy7567, on 10 August 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

 

Actually some XVMs come with a damage indicator. I use J1mbo's XVM, and it comes with a damage indicator that accurately tells you the type of shell, amount of damage and who shot you. 

 

So far it's accurate.

Yes, if you get shot. Hurr durr. You can't tell just by looking at people's stats or whatever...


Edited by cammaman, 10 August 2014 - 10:38 AM.


Death2846 #13 Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:40 AM

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View PostSkyguy7567, on 10 August 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

I've never seen a clan which put less than 3 1S in their lineup

 

Just saying, the ACP teams that I'm in generally have two LTs, two Hellcats and the other three are a mix of HTs and MTs.

The most 1Ss we've used is three, in the teams that I've played in.



Weebl #14 Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:44 AM

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Please tell me which premium OP tier 6 tanks you were facing?  I will buy one. Most tier 6 strongholds teams comprise of KV-1S, hellkitties, cromwells and the odd Chaffee. None if these are prem tanks. I played strongholds last night, mostly in my kitty. I played about 15 with around a 65% -70% win rate, I fired 2 or 3 gold rounds which I only used to get through a well angled 1S at range in a tight game. Learn to control vision. Learn to coordinate pushes. Learn to play as a coordinated team.

Death2846 #15 Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:45 AM

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View PostAdzo_, on 10 August 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

Players with 75% huh?

View Postcammaman, on 10 August 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

"but when we tried we had players with a 75% overall WN8 and 10k battles who couldn't get a hit in."
you have literally nobody in your clan with above 53%WR and nobody with above 1100 wn8. They couldn't get a hit in because THEY ARE BAD. So that's that out of the way.......

View PostJinzo, on 10 August 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

The highest win rate of any of your players is 53%, not 75%, while that same player has a wn8 of only 700 - which tells me that the 53% is pure luck.

View Postcammaman, on 10 August 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

and I just looked, you have had no member with 75% WR leave your clan in the month of August or July. So.. Please keep lying.

 

You've all misinterpreted what the OP was saying. He said that a player in TAW has a WN8 rating in the top 75% of the population, which turns out to be 1050 to 1249 WN8. But, to be honest, I shared your confusion at the beginning.

 

@OP

Learn to state things better. Saying that you have a player in the top 25% of players isn't exactly good.

Personally, I find that anything under the top 15% is pretty bad - someone I can't rely on in a game.


Edited by Death2846, 10 August 2014 - 10:46 AM.


Skyguy7567 #16 Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:46 AM

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View Postcammaman, on 10 August 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

Seriously? Hellcat with STANDARD AMMO goes straight through the front. Hellcat has higher camo values. Better ROF....

 

this is beyond a joke. This server summed up in a thread. Wow.

 

Don't forget, that's Russian armor. I've had plenty of troll bounces off the upper plate (The one joining the sloped part and the hull top). No idea how that's happening.

 

And no, when a bunch of KV1S tanks decide to rush you, you're getting rushed.

Perhaps among the games that I've played I haven't had a map that really benefits TDs. Maybe that's the issue. But it is undeniable that a few KV1S tanks grouped together, especially with non-random teammates, wrecks everything. Can you come up with a good strategy against such a rush? (Not challenging you, just asking for advice)

 

View Post_Boris_, on 10 August 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

 

A mod may tell you after you've been shot, but there is no mod that can tell you that EVERY enemy is loading gold rounds as the OP so clearly stated.

 

What camm stated was that XVM cannot indicate rounds. That is false. I'm just pointing that out. I am making no attempts to defend the fact that the OP can be lying about that.

 

No it's not a modpack. It's something that can be put in XVM. 

http://worldof-tanks...m-config-5-0-2/

 

 


Do u even WoT m8?


TimberWolffe #17 Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:47 AM

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View Postcammaman, on 10 August 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

You couldn't penetrate BECAUSE YOU ARE BAD

 

XVM does NOT tell you who is using gold rounds and who is not.

 

they are not pay to win. GOOD ORGANISED TEAMS WIN. Honestly I have little to no doubt top clans would beat you at tier 6 strongholds with tier 5's because your players are terrible.

 

are you legit? Are these actually your misguided views on the game or are you just trolling? Because honestly I did not know people could be this stupid.

 

and I just looked, you have had no member with 75% WR leave your clan in the month of August or July. So.. Please keep lying.

Last I checked the best member, AVP3Marine, left TAW near the end of July, and when I checked his stats he was at 75%.

if XVM doesn't tell you who shot what then why does the customiser have a damage indicator field.

A Hellcat being unable to penetrate a KV-1S isn't bad, it's the norm. Even though the front armor should be nothing to a hellcat, it still brushes off shots like it was nothing, even at point blank. 

Admittedly, our players aren't the best. There's no reason, however, that in our last battle with us all in the best tier 6 heavies we had that we should all be dead within the first 3 minutes of the game starting. It's unbalanced, it's unfair, and it's expensive.

 

View Postcammaman, on 10 August 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

Seriously? Hellcat with STANDARD AMMO goes straight through the front. Hellcat has higher camo values. Better ROF....

 

this is beyond a joke. This server summed up in a thread. Wow.

the Hellcat with standard ammo goes through the front if it hits a weak point, otherwise it bounces or does no damage. It only has higher camo when you've not fired, and the DPM is only better without the 90mm, otherwise it's about 0.2 seconds slower than the 1S.

 

View Post_Boris_, on 10 August 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

 

A mod may tell you after you've been shot, but there is no mod that can tell you that EVERY enemy is loading gold rounds as the OP so clearly stated.

Corect, it tells me after I've been shot. I was shot by the entire enemy team, I know, I checked. All were loading gold except in one case where one clan member saw one of his former leaders so they wanted to have a proper match with no gold ammo.

 


TANKS! BIG TANKS! SMALL TANKS! MEDIUM TANKS!

 


Death2846 #18 Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:49 AM

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View PostSkyguy7567, on 10 August 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

And no, when a bunch of KV1S tanks decide to rush you, you're getting rushed.

Perhaps among the games that I've played I haven't had a map that really benefits TDs. Maybe that's the issue. But it is undeniable that a few KV1S tanks grouped together, especially with non-random teammates, wrecks everything. Can you come up with a good strategy against such a rush? (Not challenging you, just asking for advice)

 

Vision control, so that you know when they're going to rush. Once the problem has been identified you can easily adjust your team's positioning (with TeamSpeak) and deal with the problem quickly.

If it's a map where this doesn't work, you can also get your fast tanks to do a quick cap.



SaltyMemeMan_Adzo #19 Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:51 AM

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View PostTimberWolffe, on 10 August 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

Last I checked the best member, AVP3Marine, left TAW near the end of July, and when I checked his stats he was at 75%.

 

Totally 75%

Edited by Adzo_, 10 August 2014 - 10:51 AM.


Death2846 #20 Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:56 AM

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View PostTimberWolffe, on 10 August 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

A Hellcat being unable to penetrate a KV-1S isn't bad, it's the norm. Even though the front armor should be nothing to a hellcat, it still brushes off shots like it was nothing, even at point blank.

the Hellcat with standard ammo goes through the front if it hits a weak point, otherwise it bounces or does no damage. It only has higher camo when you've not fired, and the DPM is only better without the 90mm, otherwise it's about 0.2 seconds slower than the 1S.

 

A Hellcat not being able to pen a 1S shows that the shells have been moving away from where you aimed, due to shell dispersion, or the Hellcat driver being bad, if the shell goes where it was aimed. Because, really, the shells don't penetrate when you don't hit the 1S's weakspots. They don't go through when you hit the most armoured part of the tank.

I know this from experience; didn't aim before and got heaps of non-pens, I aim now and they all go through.

 

View Post_Boris_, on 10 August 2014 - 02:51 PM, said:

Wrong. He meant 75% WR.. Both players that left when stronkholds was introduced had 500 and 700 wn8.

View PostTimberWolffe, on 10 August 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

And I can see why you would think that, but when we tried we had players with a 75% overall WN8

 

Um, Boris, what about this?

Spoiler

 






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