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Strongholds, The Bad, The Worse, The Ugly


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Thingol #101 Posted 11 August 2014 - 10:09 AM

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View Post_MadCow_, on 11 August 2014 - 12:03 PM, said:

Lets you run some less common tanks as well which is fun with the meds/lights which esp with the lights are almost OP in the restricted tiering environment here....)

 

True dat.

This is the one thing that changed in tank selection in detachments, when compared to TCs.

Medium TCs had LTs capped at tier 4, so they rarely made an appearance.



zaha #102 Posted 11 August 2014 - 10:29 AM

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Worth reading stuff, OP.

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neokai #103 Posted 11 August 2014 - 10:48 AM

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View PostTimberWolffe, on 10 August 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

Yes, we have Teamspeak, and we communicated a lot.

Saying our players couldn't get a shot in because they were bad is just plain wrong. I, in my hellcat, couldn't penetrate even the smallest of tanks, and my XVM told me that the other teams were only using gold rounds. I am aware they are available for credits, however I's rather try to keep my losses within the 10,000 credit mark rather than spend 12,000 credits per shot when it's guaranteed to not pay out. The truth of the matter is that strongholds are a pay-to-win situation, which has discouraged TAW from doing...anything involving them.

View PostTimberWolffe, on 10 August 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

Last I checked the best member, AVP3Marine, left TAW near the end of July, and when I checked his stats he was at 75%.

if XVM doesn't tell you who shot what then why does the customiser have a damage indicator field.

A Hellcat being unable to penetrate a KV-1S isn't bad, it's the norm. Even though the front armor should be nothing to a hellcat, it still brushes off shots like it was nothing, even at point blank. 

Admittedly, our players aren't the best. There's no reason, however, that in our last battle with us all in the best tier 6 heavies we had that we should all be dead within the first 3 minutes of the game starting. It's unbalanced, it's unfair, and it's expensive.

 

the Hellcat with standard ammo goes through the front if it hits a weak point, otherwise it bounces or does no damage. It only has higher camo when you've not fired, and the DPM is only better without the 90mm, otherwise it's about 0.2 seconds slower than the 1S.

 

Corect, it tells me after I've been shot. I was shot by the entire enemy team, I know, I checked. All were loading gold except in one case where one clan member saw one of his former leaders so they wanted to have a proper match with no gold ammo.

 

View PostTimberWolffe, on 10 August 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

We tried for just a straight rush and got blasted to hell by 4 KV-1S's using gold ammo on the derp gun.

My comments about the Hellcat are 100% accurate as it is by far my most used tank, with 100% crew and 82% on crew skills. I also suspect some teams had been using view range mods as our commander said he was spotted in his ELC long before he spotted anyone while we were up against a team consisting of solely russian tanks. 3 KV-1S, 2 T-34, 2 SU-100.

 

Not sure if you're still reading this but thought to give you a detailed reply on the points raised.

 

The hellcat has very good pen for its tier... but you still have to aim if you intend to damage heavy tanks. If you still have trouble penning you should go revise enemy armor schemes because higher tiers are a lot less forgiving.

 

In team battles coordination and intelligence is key. Coordination basically is anything to keep the team moving together. By intelligence I meant the military definition - information on enemy positions, and their intentions literally make or break games. Without a replay I can only speculate that your teams were either hulling down within view range of enemy guns or just running straight into the enemy without a good countermeasure.

 

If you can share some replays we can give better feedback. The people here are pretty crusty in their speech but the points they bring up will raise your game to the next level.

 

View PostTimberWolffe, on 10 August 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

Have you heard of vision mechanics? A moving Hellcat becomes visible almost instantly because honestly it is a huge tank. I say that because the only time I'll be moving is if I've taken a shot or a shot has just barely missed me, meaning that I am well within their view range and should relocate immediately.

 

You are talking to people who have aced their hellcats and regularly do huge chunks of damage in it. Take it that we do know what we are talking about. There are 2 reasons why you are getting spotted easily:

  • You are too close to the enemy (either an unlit scout or medium is spotting you)
  • You are out in the open with no bushes to hide in/behind

 

View PostSkyguy7567, on 10 August 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

I have tank inspector and I perfectly know angles. You can reliably penetrate a KV1S's front until it's angled like this.

 

 

Yet I'm bouncing off their hull all the time. Same goes for Russian 122mm guns. It's just trolly like that. And the strip you ask? It remains under 150mm until the front is angled even more.

 

I guess it all goes down to moar teamwork, something that my clanmates are not too good at. Well can't really blame them. A lot of them have 2k battles, or even less. 

 

In this scenario I'm going for the flattest armor plate I can find, in order of priority:

  • Front drive wheel - aiming for the corner of the hull
  • Turret (if turret is not facing me)
  • Cupola (smallest target of the lot but very hard to hide)

 

 I've also had some success shooting at the side hull from this angle, this is 1 scenario I would use APCR if I can't relocate for a better angle.


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StruggleSnuggle #104 Posted 11 August 2014 - 11:07 AM

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I only ever shoot gold at Hellcats because their armor is almost too good.

Cannot into lane management.


Skyguy7567 #105 Posted 11 August 2014 - 11:22 AM

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Neo, KV1S are fast tanks. An organized 1S group would most definitely go roflstomping. And in a roflstomp scenario, you can't really aim much other than the front. Which SHOULD be easily penetratable but not. 

 

 

 


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mttspiii #106 Posted 11 August 2014 - 11:36 AM

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View PostSkyguy7567, on 11 August 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

Neo, KV1S are fast tanks. An organized 1S group would most definitely go roflstomping. And in a roflstomp scenario, you can't really aim much other than the front. Which SHOULD be easily penetratable but not. 

 

It's hard to roflstomp when your tanks are blind and the enemy is in bushes. KV-1S is overpowered, but is in no way a sure-win vehicle.

 

Counter for KV-1S rush? TOG II* defense.


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Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #107 Posted 11 August 2014 - 11:42 AM

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Counter for KV1S rush is just a bunch of HT that are NOT KV1S.

 

Rushing is actually ineffective tank for tank, it requires using number or timing advantage for the square law force multiplier effect. Three KV1S rushing into 3 tanks is bad for the rusher. Furthermore, KV1S and autoloaders rely on burst damage but have pathetic reliable DPM. Use M6 or ARL and hope for a miss or bounce while you DPM the kv1s to death, not to mention you win in longer range fights.


How to solve all problems once and for all with just 3 lines of code:

 

if ( battle_type = CW | RB | SH ) {

mod_folder.disable

}


neokai #108 Posted 11 August 2014 - 12:23 PM

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View PostSkyguy7567, on 11 August 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

Neo, KV1S are fast tanks. An organized 1S group would most definitely go roflstomping. And in a roflstomp scenario, you can't really aim much other than the front. Which SHOULD be easily penetratable but not. 

 

Granted, they are fast (for heavy tanks). They are also inaccurate on the move at targets beyond 100m. Hence the idea is to shoot to disable - get the front drive wheel. Best case scenario is damage + tracked for follow up.

 

If they are moving in high cover (walls and rubble), your tanks at their destination need to get out of dodge, fast.


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neokai #109 Posted 11 August 2014 - 12:25 PM

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View PostBluefunk, on 11 August 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

Counter for KV1S rush is just a bunch of HT that are NOT KV1S.

 

Rushing is actually ineffective tank for tank, it requires using number or timing advantage for the square law force multiplier effect. Three KV1S rushing into 3 tanks is bad for the rusher. Furthermore, KV1S and autoloaders rely on burst damage but have pathetic reliable DPM. Use M6 or ARL and hope for a miss or bounce while you DPM the kv1s to death, not to mention you win in longer range fights.

 

It's risky for the defender tbh. At close ranges 2 KV1s can easily alpha 1 tank dead. The best hope is to draw out the ranges - or use KV-1S packs yourself.


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RoachMartel #110 Posted 11 August 2014 - 01:57 PM

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View PostTimberWolffe, on 10 August 2014 - 07:30 AM, said:

First off, Ill start by saying that if you actually have success in strongholds then you are extremely lucky, and should buy a lottery ticket immediately. Now then, to the rest of the post.

 

TAW is a relatively large clan, and we want to be able to have something nice for the players like credit boosts and experience boosts in the strongholds. Only problem with that is that strongholds show just how wide the gap is between premium and non-premium accounts. With our most experienced members and a large degree of confidence, we started up a detachment and charged into battle...only to be absolutely decimated by the strongest of tier 6 premium tanks using gold rounds, purchased crews and the best equipment you can buy. Not only that, but after we as an entire team only managed to get 2 kills out of all 4 battles we participated in, we were all losing roughly 10,000 credits per battle. Some lost even more from spending credits on gold rounds, only to bounce off the armor of some of the tanks we faced.

 

Now, some of you will be reading this and thinking "Ha, what an ass, complaining about not being good at a game." And I can see why you would think that, but when we tried we had players with a 75% overall WN8 and 10k battles who couldn't get a hit in. The game mode needs balancing, whether through more credits in battle or a larger industrial resource pool, or even disallowing certain tanks because of their high armor, alpha and DPM.

 

 

What you say has some amount of merit. BUT, Tactics can always compensate for all that. 

 

One more thing I've noticed, Pub Heroes with great Stats are simply that... PUB HEROES. they aren't so Godlike when working with a Team. So Just because someone had Unicum stats from pub stomping, it Doesn't Always mean he is a great team player with Common sense and the will to make a sacrifice. 


 

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FeeTFooD #111 Posted 11 August 2014 - 02:13 PM

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View PostBluefunk, on 11 August 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

Counter for KV1S rush is just a bunch of HT that are NOT KV1S.

 

Rushing is actually ineffective tank for tank, it requires using number or timing advantage for the square law force multiplier effect. Three KV1S rushing into 3 tanks is bad for the rusher. Furthermore, KV1S and autoloaders rely on burst damage but have pathetic reliable DPM. Use M6 or ARL and hope for a miss or bounce while you DPM the kv1s to death, not to mention you win in longer range fights.

TOG II spits out enough DPM to kill a 1S before a 1S can pull of two shots. Pity the TOG can't actually move anywhere to be flexible.


kilig ako


_MadCow_ #112 Posted 11 August 2014 - 02:31 PM

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wondered what 4 TOGsII and 3 vk2801's would be like, play the defence, wiat for the KV-1s to attack and dpm em down with your lights either spotting and or if things go pear shaped your lights bug out and go cap em out while the other team 'tries' to finally kill off the togs...

PokerLianSG #113 Posted 11 August 2014 - 02:34 PM

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Schtibal #114 Posted 11 August 2014 - 02:38 PM

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After the first few posts, I was going to add something constructive. Then I realised it was pointless. OP is delusional, and appears now to have lost interest in ignoring everyone's observations.

 



tom_bro #115 Posted 12 August 2014 - 07:48 AM

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View PostRoachMartel, on 11 August 2014 - 05:57 PM, said:

 

 

What you say has some amount of merit. BUT, Tactics can always compensate for all that. 

 

One more thing I've noticed, Pub Heroes with great Stats are simply that... PUB HEROES. they aren't so Godlike when working with a Team. So Just because someone had Unicum stats from pub stomping, it Doesn't Always mean he is a great team player with Common sense and the will to make a sacrifice. 

 

Yeah this is why DPS sucks at clanwars and strongholds.


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mttspiii #116 Posted 12 August 2014 - 12:41 PM

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View Post_MadCow_, on 11 August 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

wondered what 4 TOGsII and 3 vk2801's would be like, play the defence, wiat for the KV-1s to attack and dpm em down with your lights either spotting and or if things go pear shaped your lights bug out and go cap em out while the other team 'tries' to finally kill off the togs...

 

I've always wanted to sail my TOG straight into the enemy in an organized battle, while fitting in as many puns and naval nonsense into the global chat.


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neokai #117 Posted 12 August 2014 - 12:58 PM

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View Postmttspiii, on 12 August 2014 - 12:41 PM, said:

I've always wanted to sail my TOG straight into the enemy in an organized battle, while fitting in as many puns and naval nonsense into the global chat.

 

Contact over the horizon!

Ahead-way, full speed ahead! Hoist the signal!


Edited by neokai, 12 August 2014 - 01:04 PM.

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LeSigh #118 Posted 12 August 2014 - 01:05 PM

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View Postmttspiii, on 12 August 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

I've always wanted to sail my TOG straight into the enemy in an organized battle, while fitting in as many puns and naval nonsense into the global chat.

 

You summed up our battle last night.  Fake English accents (and Rumboy) and lot's of T'ally Ho's' (Not Tallyh0s) and 'for queen and country's spammed in match chat.


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FeeTFooD #119 Posted 12 August 2014 - 02:36 PM

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View PostSiggy, on 12 August 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

 

You summed up our battle last night.  Fake English accents (and Rumboy) and lot's of T'ally Ho's' (Not Tallyh0s) and 'for queen and country's spammed in match chat.

Siggy does an excellent Cornish farmer, then puts on a Yorkish accent.


Edited by FeeTFooD, 12 August 2014 - 02:38 PM.

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veegeetablee #120 Posted 12 August 2014 - 02:45 PM

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