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Med vs Champ vs Abs SH battles


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Minion__ #1 Posted 03 September 2014 - 10:52 AM

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OK, so a number of clans, be they serious or social, have been playing SH battles for a wee while now. Other threads have had posts about the relative worth of medium detachments vs champion or absolute ones, not to mention  the ease of setting up the former, because of it's limited number requirements.

 

My understanding of the intent of this new game mode (and I may be wrong in this) was to increase the number of players and clans taking part in cooperative play. If this is the case, is it working? Is there an easy way for us to determine the number of players taking part, frequency of games etc?

 

In other threads there have been discussion of the costliness of running champ and ab lineups, as well as the increased predilection for that curse of TCs and CWs, the turtling 'strat' (ie the strat you have when you don't have a strat).

 

My concern, is that the initial surge of interest by newbie social clans is being dampened by being roflstomped by more skilled and experienced clans, with a net result that less clans bother with participating, wait times become greater, and opportunities to garner Industrial Points dwindle.

 

This may not appear to be a problem to top ranking players and clans, and in fact some may think that it could be beneficial. Personally, I think this dynamic (if this is actually what is going on) could be detrimental for the development of the server population as a whole.

 

AFAIK, we don't have a kiddies pool CW map on our server, because we don't have the volume of players and clans to justify it. A number of CW capable clans are using SH dets as a live training exercise for new callers. Personally, I don't have a problem with that. The more people calling the better. But....

 

What about the players and clans that are not up to that CW standard yet? If they are getting discouraged in continuing to take part in SHs, it only avails a small (admittedly active) portion of the server population, and we lose the benefit of a trainee CWs analogue.

 

Or is all that just irrelevant? Is everything fine, move along nothing to see here?

 

tl;dr Has the apparent ASIA server focus on medium detachments, (because of the limitations and poor return offered by champion and absolute ones,) resulted in basically SH battles becoming a viable opportunity for cooperative play by a decreasing proportion of the player population? If so, what would it take to reverse this trend?


 

 

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karl0ssus1 #2 Posted 03 September 2014 - 11:04 AM

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We'd need numbers. Tan?

 

FWIW, I dont think that the situation is as bad as its been made out to be by some. I suspect most clans are running at their upper limit and playing the highest level mode they can get decent returns out of, be that meds, champs or (for the few) absolutes. There may very well be a few that are actively limiting themselves to meds only so they can pad their stronks E-Peen, however that will probably stop when WG releases better stats for stronk mode.

 

Also, there are scales of expereince and skill within each level. A clan that has a winning record at meds may be doing poorly in champs, and so on, so naturally they will spend more time at the level that actually nets them RP, which is pretty reasonable.

 

I suspect that sounding the alarm for stronks in its current (very limited) form is premature anyway, a slight die off now may be due to people not placing that much value on a +8% reward, but when the level limits are removed and we get up to +50% income rewards theyre going to get straight back in to it. 


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mttspiii #3 Posted 03 September 2014 - 11:07 AM

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Too many good clans spoil the kiddie pool.

Good clans should leave the kiddie pool because it's shooing away the actual kids.

 

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Fendalton #4 Posted 03 September 2014 - 11:09 AM

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In all honestly, the reason behind so many clans running 6's is due to the logistics of assembling a team outside of Clamwars, not for the fact that they can rolfstomp smaller clans.

 

I'd love to run 8's all the time, it's just an issue to find 9 other people who want to do the same.

 

If the reward was higher for Tier 8's (i.e 200 resources instead of 150, which makes no sense as it goes 100/150/300) then you'll find more people doing 8's



Minion__ #5 Posted 03 September 2014 - 11:24 AM

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View Postmttspiii, on 03 September 2014 - 01:07 PM, said:

Too many good clans spoil the kiddie pool.

Good clans should leave the kiddie pool because it's shooing away the actual kids.

 

Did I get it right?

No idea. I was trying to present my Wall Of TextTM as a series of questions, not a statement.

What do you think, mttspiii?


 

 

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Minion__ #6 Posted 03 September 2014 - 11:30 AM

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View PostFendalton, on 03 September 2014 - 01:09 PM, said:

In all honestly, the reason behind so many clans running 6's is due to the logistics of assembling a team outside of Clamwars, not for the fact that they can rolfstomp smaller clans.

 

Fair 'nuff. And just to be clear, I was not trying to imply that there was a premeditated interest in roflstomping, merely that it could be viewed as a consequence of current participation demographics.

 

Also, from my subjective reading of these forums over the years, top ranking teams and players would appear to appreciate gud fites in preference to rolfstomping.

 

Which would in fact suggest the reverse. Namely, enjoyment of the game mode being both the challenge and the reward, vs just the reward.


 

 

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Minion__ #7 Posted 03 September 2014 - 11:37 AM

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View Postkarl0ssus1, on 03 September 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

We'd need numbers. Tan?

 

I agree, but Tan may have constraints as to what he can share and/or tell us.

 

FWIW, I dont think that the situation is as bad as its been made out to be by some.

 

This is, in a nutshell, is my motivation for starting this thread. Blind folk and a elephant, yadda yadda

 

I suspect most clans are running at their upper limit and playing the highest level mode they can get decent returns out of, be that meds, champs or (for the few) absolutes.

 

I suspect that sounding the alarm for stronks in its current (very limited) form is premature anyway, a slight die off now may be due to people not placing that much value on a +8% reward, but when the level limits are removed and we get up to +50% income rewards theyre going to get straight back in to it. 

 

Mmmn. The glass can be considered both half full and empty, but it's a meaningless metric, given it's going to get a top-up?


 

 

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karl0ssus1 #8 Posted 03 September 2014 - 12:14 PM

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View Post__Minion__, on 03 September 2014 - 03:37 PM, said:

 

Mmmn. The glass can be considered both half full and empty, but it's a meaningless metric, given it's going to get a top-up?

 

Well, given that theres currently high interest in the mode when the rewards are at about 15% of the full potential Id say the future of SH looks good. 

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Ezz #9 Posted 03 September 2014 - 12:17 PM

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The IP rewards are only part of the issue. I suspect the main issue with 8s and 10s are credits and getting enough people keen.

 

Option 1 - adjust CR or limit sprem (very doubtful WG would go for this)

Option 2 - reduce team size

 

Option 2 points at the realities for many clans. Getting 15 people keen to play organised stuff that doesn't net you gold is going to be tough unless you have a shedload of people on. If we had a massive server where tons of clans had 100 actives on every night, then sure, stronks, TCs, HBs, etc. would all flourish. But that isn't the reality. At a guess only 5 or so clans would have that sort of attendance on the whole server - and even they would be spread in various timezones.


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Minion__ #10 Posted 03 September 2014 - 12:39 PM

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View PostEzz, on 03 September 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

Option 1 - adjust CR or limit sprem (very doubtful WG would go for this)

Option 2 - reduce team size

 

Option 2 points at the realities for many clans. .

 

I get the impression that a lot of the better players on the server would prefer to be not playing at tier VI.

 

But the other issue, is that as much as we may have the dynamic I outlined in my original post, different servers may have different mileages (who would have thunk it). So, as much as there could be an optimum tweak for SHs on the ASIA server (such as you outlined above), it may not make the grade in the eyes of Minsk. Le sigh.

 

Might have to go get some chickens for an augury, methinks...


 

 

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Ezz #11 Posted 03 September 2014 - 12:44 PM

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View Post__Minion__, on 03 September 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

I get the impression that a lot of the better players on the server would prefer to be not playing at tier VI.

IMO tier 6 gameplay is quite limited. I'd happily play higher tiers if i could still gain credits but due to the core business model, that isn't going to happen. I guess it's a value proposition - play higher tiers, lose credits OR play lower tiers, make credits.


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Kalipulako #12 Posted 03 September 2014 - 03:34 PM

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We are forced to play champion because nobody else play absolute beside the Vietnamese and apparently they are busy this week due to the mini-campaign so no battles there. 

 

It is said in the other thread that some clans won't go absolute because of limited attendance and the unwillingness of other members to join. In our case, our members are so willing to go into absolute because of the gold incentives the leadership is giving wherein the industrial resources accumulated by the member is converted into gold weekly. If other clans will offer the same incentives, maybe their attendance will increase, and then the possibility of running absolute will also increase.

 

 


 

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karl0ssus1 #13 Posted 03 September 2014 - 03:40 PM

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View PostCarabao, on 03 September 2014 - 07:34 PM, said:

We are forced to play champion because nobody else play absolute beside the Vietnamese and apparently they are busy this week due to the mini-campaign so no battles there. 

 

It is said in the other thread that some clans won't go absolute because of limited attendance and the unwillingness of other members to join. In our case, our members are so willing to go into absolute because of the gold incentives the leadership is giving wherein the industrial resources accumulated by the member is converted into gold weekly. If other clans will offer the same incentives, maybe their attendance will increase, and then the possibility of running absolute will also increase.

 

 

Implying that the clans have the gold income/reserves to run a scheme like that. PVP are pretty successful on the CW map, and you guys probably have good attendance anyway. For clans that arent as active on the map for whatever reason it isnt really going to be an option.


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mttspiii #14 Posted 03 September 2014 - 04:23 PM

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View Post__Minion__, on 03 September 2014 - 11:24 AM, said:

No idea. I was trying to present my Wall Of TextTM as a series of questions, not a statement.

What do you think, mttspiii?

 

People tend to read what they want to read.

Questions look rhetorical, so I read them as I see them.


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Minion__ #15 Posted 03 September 2014 - 04:46 PM

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View Postmttspiii, on 03 September 2014 - 06:23 PM, said:

 

People tend to read what they want to read.

Questions look rhetorical, so I read them as I see them.

 

OK...

So, given I've posted this here, and not in CR/D, I will state that I'm trying to get opinions from the rest of the forum community, whilst not  I pushing my own barrow or argument.

Therefore, how do you think  SHs are shaping up on our server? Do you think they are working as they appear to have been intended? Do you have any realistic tweaking suggestions?


 

 

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Minion__ #16 Posted 03 September 2014 - 04:51 PM

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View PostCarabao, on 03 September 2014 - 05:34 PM, said:

...our members are so willing to go into absolute because of the gold incentives the leadership is giving wherein the industrial resources accumulated by the member is converted into gold weekly. If other clans will offer the same incentives, maybe their attendance will increase, and then the possibility of running absolute will also increase.

View Postkarl0ssus1, on 03 September 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

Implying that the clans have the gold income/reserves to run a scheme like that. PVP are pretty successful on the CW map, and you guys probably have good attendance anyway. For clans that arent as active on the map for whatever reason it isnt really going to be an option.

 

So, can this be paraphrased as absolute detachments are only really viable if the expense is offset by a clan supplied gold subsidy?


 

 

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mttspiii #17 Posted 03 September 2014 - 04:54 PM

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View Post__Minion__, on 03 September 2014 - 04:46 PM, said:

 

OK...

So, given I've posted this here, and not in CR/D, I will state that I'm trying to get opinions from the rest of the forum community, whilst not  I pushing my own barrow or argument.

Therefore, how do you think  SHs are shaping up on our server? Do you think they are working as they appear to have been intended? Do you have any realistic tweaking suggestions?

 

I have my own preconceptions based on CR/D, but I don't have enough data to form an opinion on the matter.

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Ezz #18 Posted 03 September 2014 - 05:11 PM

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View Post__Minion__, on 03 September 2014 - 06:51 PM, said:

 

So, can this be paraphrased as absolute detachments are only really viable if the expense is offset by a clan supplied gold subsidy?

 

New building required... IP to gold converter.

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Politx_killer #19 Posted 03 September 2014 - 05:20 PM

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View PostEzz, on 03 September 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

 

New building required... IP to gold converter.

Tks still count right?


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Minion__ #20 Posted 03 September 2014 - 05:22 PM

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View PostEzz, on 03 September 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

New building required... IP to gold converter.

 

Realistic? / Unrealistic? / Flight plan lodged; pigs fueled and ready for take-off?

 

 

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