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REMOVE_SCOUT_MM_FROM_THE_GAME

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Ezz #81 Posted 15 January 2015 - 02:21 PM

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View Postazmania3000, on 15 January 2015 - 04:18 PM, said:

To get those 'Epic' 70% W/R the guides are talking about I can't swallow (well not on ASIA server anyway). 

This side of the discussion is one that has been noted before. The story of the NA uni who had a crack at SEA and no longer uni'd. I wish there was more data behind it.


Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

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TE_Deathskyz #82 Posted 15 January 2015 - 02:27 PM

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View Postkarl0ssus1, on 15 January 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

Isnt that the whole point of DPS?

 

Yup.

 

 



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TE_Deathskyz #83 Posted 15 January 2015 - 02:28 PM

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View Postazmania3000, on 15 January 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:

 

It was pred actually, but I didn't want to join  [Content Removed] because you guys are a bunch of  [Content Removed]

 

 

Considering Pred never shows up even for Tourney Matches...

I dont think he has time talking to trash.


Edited by Flying_Endeavor, 20 January 2015 - 08:47 PM.


Legend Has It That The Nyan Hetzer Is Still Flying Somewhere In The Universe In Search Of The Nyan Cat...
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Ezz #84 Posted 15 January 2015 - 02:30 PM

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Someone may need to fill me in on the animosity... it seems to have some history.

 

Storm is excellent on history. His ability to dig up old stuff from threads years old astounds me.


Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

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Frooty_Ninja #85 Posted 15 January 2015 - 02:32 PM

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View PostEzz, on 15 January 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

Someone may need to fill me in on the animosity... it seems to have some history.

 

Storm is excellent on history. His ability to dig up old stuff from threads years old astounds me.

 

Ask him to dig up photos.

 

You would be surprised what photographic evidence still exists on these forums :teethhappy:


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karl0ssus1 #86 Posted 15 January 2015 - 02:34 PM

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Az was one of those original luck guys right? IIRC there has been some friction between luck and DPS members in the past, and not just the good sort of friction.

RIP DM, 2012~2014 


Frooty_Ninja #87 Posted 15 January 2015 - 02:35 PM

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View Postkarl0ssus1, on 15 January 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

Az was one of those original luck guys right? IIRC there has been some friction between luck and DPS members in the past, and not just the good sort of friction.

 

lolwut?

 

 


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_Storm #88 Posted 15 January 2015 - 02:55 PM

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The importance of early damage

http://wotreplays.com/site/1529470#self

Spoiler

 

Being able to get early damage is one of the best skills you can have, some of the best players in the game are excellent at getting early damage due to their positioning and ability to read the enemy teams' composition, this spot on Redshire is one of my favourite. Referring to the screenshots and/or replay you can see how I get an entire clip off (one shot missed Q_Q) at the start of the game, damaging the conq and crippling the T57, the position I was in is very strong because it's possible to shoot without getting spotted (notice the trees and when I choose to fire) and because you will almost always get a shot or three off at heavies as they lumber into the stream. Be aware it is very vulnerable to scouts at E7 or along the ridge opposite where I was, if you are spotted you're incredibly vulnerable to prosnipers on the hills.

 

Getting early shots is crucial, the more damage you do at the start of the game the higher your chances are of winning that particular flank, potentially resulting in the game snowballing in your favour, basically it drastically increases your chances of winning, so make sure you work on ways to improve the number of shots you take at the start of the game, even if it means you will take more damage early on, better to spend your HP to gain an advantage in the opening minutes, than conserve your HP to farm late-game damage which is useless as far as winning goes.

 

View Post_Jibril_, on 12 January 2015 - 05:00 AM, said:

How to judge when and where to be aggressive ? Especially for high tier games , I been playing in platoons lately and upon reading the Garbad's thread . I find myself in a situation where my platoon ends up doing all the dirty job for me . As for me , I been following a set of actions pre-planned and won't stray far from my plans in game . My usual routine is find a bush , snipe , see my platoon mates die then roll out to sweep the remaining enemies . However , I did try to be aggressive recently but I end up being burden to my platoon because they literally had to die infront of me so I can escape in one piece watching them die again . A little insight of my platoon mates , they mostly use HT and TD . I am the odd one out with a MT but I general behave like a TD at least the early part of the game . 

The key with being aggresive is balancing risk vs reward, don't be hesitant to sacrifice yourself if you know it will allow your team to crush the flank you are on, providing the other flanks aren't potato, but don't yolo into a Foch 155 if there isn't a very large tactical gain to be gained. Personally I always try to seize aggressive locations on the map as this often opens up opportunities for early direct or scouting damage (see the replay above), make sure you aren't being completely passive unless the situation demands it though, as the longer you are doing nothing the longer the other team has to win other flanks, take important locations and so on. For more specific advice, post some replays here.

 

View Postazmania3000, on 15 January 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:

 

Man I watched those guys replays and all they do is go to a flank and hold it. "Derr playing tier 10's like a pro; drive 500m to hard cover, sidescrape, shoot a few times and the other flank will get to cap." What a F*%^$%^& load of Horse_ _ _ _!!!!.

-> So i pull out my trusty IS7, drive 500m to hard cover, get owned 8-4 tanks (after doing 2.5k dmg and blocking 3k dmg), then get abused by a maus driver trying to beat a med pack to cap that "I lost the flank."

 

Sorry storm, those guys tutorials are useless; Cherry picked replays and rubbish claims of "Derr I can win tier 10 solo 70%, just follow my pro tips and you will be the same". LIES MAN!!!!!

 

--> Man I'm a veteran player, I've run CW campaigns and gone toe to toe with the best on this server (sometimes I win too XD). What I can never do is make the enemy sit there like stunned mullets and eat my rounds, like they do on the replays. Those fuckers are always on the other flank of my team. My conclusion is that Asia server must play "differently", and "generally" you need to platoon WELL to get +55% w/r in any tank tier 8+.

 

How about a focus on platoon mechanics, mainly getting people to work together in small groups? It's just I looked at the guides, performed as par instruction and it did nothing to help me and I felt very frustrated.

 

Their average stats backup their replays though...and if you're referring to Garbad's example where he held up a flank, that's his response to the situation he was in and the team compositions, so not advice for every game, more an example of what you can do with great strategic knowledge, and not necessarily simply out-damaging the enemy team. I'm not foolish enough to say the guides are good for everyone, because they aren't, but I thought they were good enough to post links here, and I stand by that decision. 

 

However, it's definitely possible to solo well past 55%, I'm confidant I can solo to at *least* 58% in tanks that I don't suck in, and definitely more in strong(er) tanks.

I'll write out a few thoughts on winning in pontoons later, if you want.


Edited by Stormtroop3r, 21 January 2015 - 08:45 PM.


_Storm #89 Posted 15 January 2015 - 03:20 PM

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View PostEzz, on 15 January 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

I've been finding the high tier lights (7 and above) harder to solo in in the current meta. Tier 6 lights are still piss easy as you still face a bunch of numpties with vision control knowledge or bad view ranges.

 

Storm et al, to get you in on this, any thoughts on how to stop sucking in them? I struggle with the 'damage doer / scout' role dichotomy. Clearly the balance i'm using isn't as successful as it was in the previous meta.

I will admit I'm not incredibly experienced in high tier scout gameplay (unless the Leo counts), as my only high tier scout is the 13 90, but I can probably help with the damage whoring aspect. Do you think you could possibly upload some replays? I could alternatively try playing some games in the 13 90 but as it doesn't have sixth sense yet I'm not sure how well I will do in it.

 

To help alleviate the map design I found that full APCR in the 13 90 really helped, mainly because the terrible gun handling combined with the corridors meant I didn't really get to choose what I was shooting at, and because of the MM sometimes even when you get a chance to aim the AP simply isn't enough (175 is very poor for a tier 9), though you probably aren't asking for new ways to lose 50k credits a game.

 

For me playing as a low HP medium came fairly naturally, but frustrating at times because of the thrice-cursed MM, as it is you will almost always do worse in lights than in meds because the nature of the current game really punishes lights for no apparent reason other than possibly a determination to obliterate hard-camping TDs (which could have been handled better). I'm sorry I can't give better advice other than "load gold", I *might* be able to get a couple of good replays though.



Frooty_Ninja #90 Posted 15 January 2015 - 03:39 PM

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How did Stormtroop3r get gud?

 

It was quite simple.  He treated it like a workout, making sure he was pushing his body and mind to the limits each and every session.

 

After these long and laborious sessions beverages were to be had, after all we all know that optimal hydration is what keeps the body and mind sharp.

 

After that it was back to the drawing board, time to keep studying and improving.  He would seek out the greatest masters of this game, and continue to observe them and pick up their tricks/habits/dance moves..

 

 

 

TL;DR-  get off your [edited] and practice.

 

 


Edited by Frooty_Ninja, 15 January 2015 - 03:39 PM.

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_Storm #91 Posted 15 January 2015 - 04:00 PM

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View PostForkUrEyes, on 13 January 2015 - 05:24 PM, said:

Have you ever rage while playing?

I do. Especially when clickers trying so hard to get you. It's like you the only enemy they see. I rather getting shot by the E100 than being shot by those pesky little annoying clickers.

Anyway, when I'm happy I can do great. Most of the time. But when I'm in rage I will play like a total scrub. I cannot think properly. Leading me to made a bad decisions. No to mention a broken keyboard or mouse after being smashed on a table by me. So, how not to rage? :/

I rage all the time, though it used to be a lot worse, a few months ago I got really into improving my stats, but not my gameplay, so every game where we lost or whatever I got really mad, the fact is you're always going to have bad games and bad teams, recognising that you either you didn't play well, your team couldn't hit a Sandcrawler if it tried or a combination of both also helps to alleviate the rage, at least for me, as I go "bugger, team/Storm was potato this game, next game will be better" instead of "[edited] RNG, [edited] tomatoes, [edited] game", though when you start playing badly consistently that's when it's a good idea to quit and launch AoE II or whatever fun PvE games you like. 

 

View PostFrooty_Ninja, on 15 January 2015 - 02:58 AM, said:

Rumour has it you were the last person to play a game with Fruity_Ninja.  Ever.

Oh yeh the click battle thing would certainly help.  But besides from that a few tips would be appreciated :)

Hopefully that status won't last though.

 

Primarily recognising your mistakes and flaws, not blaming them on others and working out how to solve them or at least make them not so bad, for example I'm currently working on scouting, positioning and not doing dumb shit that gets me killed for nothing, is that what you're looking for or do you want more specific examples?



Ezz #92 Posted 15 January 2015 - 04:04 PM

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View PostStormtroop3r, on 15 January 2015 - 05:20 PM, said:

I will admit I'm not incredibly experienced in high tier scout gameplay 

I guess what strikes me is the change in meta and how it's affected my scouts (or my ability :( ).

 

6 Lts i can still carve up. Mid 60s solo very doable in the current meta. MT25, and 64 low 60s, and T37 farcically fun at 66%.

But 7s and up and it's been tough.

 

Most notably has been my 132 and 13 90 that existed pre map and meta changes. Both were over 60 pre change, both have been dropping since. My 251, lttb and bulldog however are struggling in the mid 50s (I don't want to be a cable denier, but it should be pointed out most of those battles were played at that time...)


Edited by Ezz, 15 January 2015 - 04:05 PM.

Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

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Frooty_Ninja #93 Posted 15 January 2015 - 05:00 PM

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View PostStormtroop3r, on 15 January 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

 is that what you're looking for or do you want more specific examples?

 

I do tend to prefer images.  Preferably animated :P


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FengQingQingZhuang #94 Posted 15 January 2015 - 06:20 PM

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That screenshot of Redshire explains a lot of early aggression , I never went there as much as I should . I usually go straight to the middle and wait for LT to attempt to scout that sniping spot of yours . I will upload some replay here when I play again . 

Learning how to play is a never ending process .


azmania3000 #95 Posted 15 January 2015 - 09:20 PM

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View Postkarl0ssus1, on 15 January 2015 - 04:34 PM, said:

Az was one of those original luck guys right? IIRC there has been some friction between luck and DPS members in the past, and not just the good sort of friction.

 

No I've been very loyal to BURN (which is a social clan now, half our guys stopped playing WoT after campaign 2) after I got poached from a 7 day stint in GBH .

 

->The animosity (on my part) comes from my experience during DPS formation stage. I didn't like the way they treated the entire server as their "feeder clan" and went on a poaching frenzy, destroying other clans in the process. It's hard work developing a team and I could feel the disappointment of smaller clan officers losing their troops......Having lots of active, eager clans is a great way to improve the skill base of the server, imo ;-). I can't change what happened, it is done now, just sour grapes considering the intent of the OP.

 

*   As for DeathSkyz and his animosity; well, I think he just enjoys being mean prick. Everyone wants to be the bad guy, it's more fun than being the good guy (maybe I don't "hate" you after all DeathSkyz). Bet you a coke he doesn't talk to his missus the way he talks to us. XD.

 

View PostStormtroop3r, on 15 January 2015 - 04:55 PM, said:

 

 

Their average stats backup their replays though...and if you're referring to Garbad's example where he held up a flank, that's his response to the situation he was in and the team compositions, so not advice for every game, more an example of what you can do with great strategic knowledge, and not necessarily simply out-damaging the enemy team. I'm not foolish enough to say the guides are good for everyone, because they aren't, but I thought they were good enough to post links here, and I stand by that decision. 

 

However, it's definitely possible to solo well past 55%, I'm confidant I can solo to at *least* 58% in tanks that I don't suck in, and definitely more in strong(er) tanks.

I'll write out a few thoughts on winning in pontoons later, if you want.

 

Thanks for the reply Storm, you're a nice guy; what else can I say XD. I understand my faults, they are strategic. I lose because I am too aggressive in the early game. I position myself according to what "I think should be happening", and not according to what my team is doing. It's a poor decision to assume pub players know what I am thinking......and I do have a 'tendency' to yolo where retreat is usually the logical option. However:

 

 The lasting impression I gather from these 'play solo' tutorials is to be selfish. And that gets me killed a lot (because being selfish makes me feel guilty).

-> What really irks me is when guys on my team, in close proximity, hold their position and watch me fight.....and die. AFTER I die they realise the enemy can be destroyed with a flank maneuver, and they can gain the strategic offensive (e.g. enemy cap is open now). It's this kind of behaviour that really limits my decision making ability, and encourages hissy rage fits.

 

-> Ultimately, I induce the purpose of your post is to raise the skill level of the server, to have a pubbie beside you that doesn't get fed by a watering can (potato!). It's the same reason unicorns platoon; carrying your whole damn team every match is incredibly hard work. Too often I see a group of players acting as individuals, and they get punished severely for it. A person does not need to be in a platoon, in order to play like a platoon. It's this kind of group work that I really feel is missing from tutorials.

 

-> 3 essential skills I see missing from a lot of pubbies on asia server; 1). Sharing HitPoints in a group.  2).  Co-ordinated push   3). Using a forward observer.

 

Forward observer is a complicated one because it is map dependant, and sometimes not neccessary. Maybe explain this one to me so I don't yolo so much XD

 

 

 

 

 

 



_Storm #96 Posted 15 January 2015 - 11:26 PM

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View Postazmania3000, on 15 January 2015 - 11:20 PM, said:

Forward observer is a complicated one because it is map dependant, and sometimes not neccessary. Maybe explain this one to me so I don't yolo so much XD

Someone acting as a scout is useful on some maps in some situations, but due to map changes over the past year is no longer capable of dominating entire flanks with its view range alone. Recognising good scouting opportunities such as where the bush which overlooked the bowl used to be Mountain Pass is still an important part of winning games (that particular position was nerfed, but is still good, just have to be more careful), if you're thinking of yoloing to scout stuff, try and make an educated guess on risk vs reward first, by working out who may be there, how much support you have and whether the potential of you dying is worth the potential of getting all the mad spotting damagez, a dead scout is of no use to anyone.

 

Yoloing is often a good idea, especially if you're on a really campy map like Swamp and you are faced with a draw(I have a rule where I should always die during a draw, because otherwise I played too passively and contributed to such a terrible outcome, though I digress).

 

View Postazmania3000, on 15 January 2015 - 11:20 PM, said:

Thanks for the reply Storm, you're a nice guy; what else can I say XD. I understand my faults, they are strategic. I lose because I am too aggressive in the early game. I position myself according to what "I think should be happening", and not according to what my team is doing. It's a poor decision to assume pub players know what I am thinking......and I do have a 'tendency' to yolo where retreat is usually the logical option. However:

 

 The lasting impression I gather from these 'play solo' tutorials is to be selfish. And that gets me killed a lot (because being selfish makes me feel guilty).

-> What really irks me is when guys on my team, in close proximity, hold their position and watch me fight.....and die. AFTER I die they realise the enemy can be destroyed with a flank maneuver, and they can gain the strategic offensive (e.g. enemy cap is open now). It's this kind of behaviour that really limits my decision making ability, and encourages hissy rage fits.

I'm sure there are many pubbies who disagree with that, lel. Aggressiveness at the start is often good, and much better than passiveness, just as long as you aren't being silly about it, don't do things when you expect your team to play a certain way, watch what they are doing and react accordingly, everyone knows lemming trains are bad, but if one forms your best chance of winning is to join it, basically play according to what your team (and the enemy) are doing, not what they should be doing. My favourite location on Himmelsdorf when playing my JPII is the middle of tank alley, it seems like an over-aggressive manoeuvre in a tank unsuited for that role, but because I know the strengths and limitations of the JPII I know which games I can use that spot and which I can (top tier JPII will dominate tank alley, unless they get really lucky RNG and hit one of 0 armour holes in the mantlet), that is controlled aggressiveness.

 

Kewei is one of the best damage farmers in the game, his guides definitely trend towards extremely selfish play, in order to maximise DPG (though not at the cost of wins), which is probably why you are getting that impression. While it is unfortunate that pubbies often have a slow thought process, there isn't much you can do when your team lets you down, other than hurl abuse at them for being incompetent, or RQ, whichever takes your fancy, however, you should always expect your team to play selfishly and try to conserve their own HPs, self-preservation is one of the strongest influences on our lives, and despite the lack of tangible consequences, this applies to video games too, which is why they often let you down at crucial moments, because they are afraid to take damage.



Frooty_Ninja #97 Posted 15 January 2015 - 11:27 PM

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View Postazmania3000, on 15 January 2015 - 09:20 PM, said:

Thanks for the reply Storm, you're a nice guy; what else can I say XD.

 

He is a pretty nice guy.  I heard he also gives good tips when one has PC-issues.

 

 


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azmania3000 #98 Posted 16 January 2015 - 03:20 AM

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Thanks for the thoughts stormtroooper. Had a good think about opening plays and seemed to settle in to a groove. Had a play and ended the session with 62.5% solo of the night. Played mainly IS2 and T54, with a few stug III and IS7 games to mix it up XD. Out of my 32 games, 3 I screwed up the carry and 2 I had no impact. Other losses were simply unavoidable. IS7 and T54 finished on par at exactly 60% i think XD, so anything is possible.

 



AdrianK #99 Posted 16 January 2015 - 07:07 AM

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Hey Storm, for the Kewei method (be it "hard-core" or "casual" ), any further insights as to what tanks are the best options?  For me I reckon they are (in no particular order):

 

  1. E100 - cause X, downsides include running $$$.
  2. E75 - cause still "high tier"and I'm more comfortable with it than the E100.
  3. 112 - cause prem so $ not so bad; tier 8 still a good place to start (based on what you said before).
  4. Others for me currently include the KT, JPII, Indien, Leo PTA.

 

* This all assumes I don't start up an alt, and atm I don't plan to.

 


Edited by AdrianK, 16 January 2015 - 08:45 AM.

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_Storm #100 Posted 16 January 2015 - 09:03 AM

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View PostAdrianK, on 16 January 2015 - 09:07 AM, said:

Hey Storm, for the Kewei method (be it "hard-core" or "casual" ), any further insights as to what tanks are the best options?  For me I reckon they are (in no particular order):

 

  1. E100 - cause X, downsides include running $$$.
  2. E75 - cause still "high tier"and I'm more comfortable with it than the E100.
  3. 112 - cause prem so $ not so bad; tier 8 still a good place to start (based on what you said before).
  4. Others for me currently include the KT, JPII, Indien, Leo PTA.

 

* This all assumes I don't start up an alt, and atm I don't plan to.

Any tank will do, just as so long as it's high tier and you are struggling with it, it's also probably best to not spread across a lot of tanks, so maybe try focusing on two or three?


Edited by Stormtroop3r, 16 January 2015 - 09:04 AM.






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