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ZeroPauper #21 Posted 29 June 2015 - 04:07 PM

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View PostTanitha, on 29 June 2015 - 03:58 PM, said:

 

VN is fairly unique there.They have been an occupied country for most of the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam

And are currently enjoying their non occupation.

 

It is similar with Taiwan, who like to fly the TW flag to show they do not consider themselves part of China, as China would like..

 

/Tan

And why should we bring nationalistic pride or politics into an online game like that when we know it would raise some eyebrows?

 

So that they could get away with things that are directed at them by using "racism" as an excuse?


Edited by ZeroPauper, 29 June 2015 - 04:08 PM.

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Tanitha #22 Posted 29 June 2015 - 04:14 PM

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View PostPolitx_killer, on 29 June 2015 - 04:06 PM, said:

1. If you cannot guarantee their unbiased moderation, sack them. Its that simple.

 

2. The fact you get hit twice, instead of waiting for the staff/head honcho to drop the red axe frankly is a bad process.

 

3. I see no problem with this. A little bit of leeway (within reason) would go a long way to creating trust between the players/mods/staff. Instead of getting the book thrown at them for slight infractions, a PM asking to remove the offending post or edit it would be a far more community building friendly exercise then just dropping the red pen on them.

 

1. Its not about their unbiased moderation, or their capability to do so .. its about claims / perception of players when they see enemy clan / allied clan , moderating..

 

2. Yes understand, but players on a posting spree of rule violations, need to be stopped until the issue is referred up for handling by senior mods / staff / etc when they are available.

Don't forget this complaint is about 10-15 accounts, a lot being alts, spamming the forums with racism.


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Cronk #23 Posted 29 June 2015 - 04:24 PM

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View PostTanitha, on 29 June 2015 - 05:46 PM, said:

 

That's certainly a different/colorful way of expressing that point :)

 

 

 

The issues here are,

1. Moderators are players in clans ..

2. New moderators have little experience (obviously)

 

Which leads to..

Clanned moderators have difficulty / usually don't ... moderate their own clan's post, allied clans posts, enemy clans posts .. Or such can be seen as biased.

So these are then left to other neutral moderators.

Which leads to .. "But this moderator left it, then this moderator moderated it"

Sometimes things need referring to senior moderators, and/or staff, this is not "Double standards" which is commonly cried. Its the issue being referred to the appropriate channels for moderation.

 

Which leads to..
New moderators not being permitted to moderate CRD

 

Add 1&2 together, moderation of CRD is often slower, and sometimes missed, due to the lack of experienced moderators that can unbiasedly moderate there. 

 

 

 

Most of my warnings/Ro's (not that I have a huge amount) have come from moderators of clans that I have been a part of or previously a part of.

 

Mick42 and Chappo from PANZA, Wasaabi and possibly Bartlett from Flex. I'm not disputing any of them, just pointing out that they didn't seem to have any problems pinging me when I stepped over the line. Perhaps we need some unclanned or non CW affiliated mods to oversee CR/D though. It was just a suggestion and I would make the same request if Serb started moderating the forums.


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Cronk #24 Posted 29 June 2015 - 04:36 PM

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View PostDeathskyz, on 29 June 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

 

How many clans of a particular nation have their nationality in it?

 

 

Lots.

 

Any clan with ANZ in it typically signifies an alliance between the 2 western nations that participate on this server. There is certainly a perception in the English section of the forum that a certain other section of the forum is getting away with racism/nationalism towards that segment of the community while any of the same being directed back is being cracked down on harshly.

 

I think anyone would agree that racism/nationalism doesn't belong on this forum, however I don't think it's unfair to expect that standard to be applied equally across all language subforums, not just the English one.


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AHB_Centurion #25 Posted 29 June 2015 - 05:55 PM

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I for one send PM to players asking them to modify or remove low level content that would otherwise get a warning. Some do and some dont, thats the choice they make but they get the option.

 

CRD is a minefield and needs moderators with life/clan/people experience. It isnt some where that a new moderator will go to on their first day

 

As for bring back Mick to train on how to moderate CRD, most of the current CRD mods were. I can also remember when being trained by Mick that he was subject to "stuff" because of how he moderated.

 

It will be hard to find a moderator who isnt in clan as most of us are keen on competing in clan wars. But we do try to stay away from moderating our own clan members/allies.

 

The country name in a clan being used doesnt automatically make it racist, but if you are posting about a clan why is it so necessary to say Nigerian Peoples Army instead of just NPA? Clan tags are unique and most of the clans in CRD are usually easy to recognize just by the tag. But as pointed out above its all about context and perhaps if the post is dubious a PM to discuss options with the poster is the way to go

 

As for let loose the dogs of war, that was what contributed to the demise of Old CRD


Edited by Centurion_NZ, 29 June 2015 - 05:58 PM.

 
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Politx_killer #26 Posted 29 June 2015 - 06:00 PM

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View PostTanitha, on 29 June 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

 

1. Its not about their unbiased moderation, or their capability to do so .. its about claims / perception of players when they see enemy clan / allied clan , moderating..

 

2. Yes understand, but players on a posting spree of rule violations, need to be stopped until the issue is referred up for handling by senior mods / staff / etc when they are available.

Don't forget this complaint is about 10-15 accounts, a lot being alts, spamming the forums with racism.

You have banned alts etc by IP before, why not do that instead of locking a whole section of the forums? I do get the need to squash the racism hard, but over reacting like this seems to be a poor choice.


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bradw1995 #27 Posted 29 June 2015 - 06:43 PM

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A little bit off topic but may I ask why I can't view the rest of CR/D (only the first page of threads) in the locked thread archive?

 

            If stupidity got us in this mess, how come it can't get us out.


Cronk #28 Posted 29 June 2015 - 06:52 PM

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View Postbradw1995, on 29 June 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

A little bit off topic but may I ask why I can't view the rest of CR/D (only the first page of threads) in the locked thread archive?

 

Might want to reread the OP.

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bradw1995 #29 Posted 29 June 2015 - 07:01 PM

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View PostCronk, on 29 June 2015 - 08:52 PM, said:

 

Might want to reread the OP.

 

Just did, not sure what I am missing (sick and have been awake for almost 35 hours so don't be surprised if its something stupidly obvious I am missing).

 

            If stupidity got us in this mess, how come it can't get us out.


ZeroPauper #30 Posted 29 June 2015 - 07:18 PM

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View Postbradw1995, on 29 June 2015 - 06:43 PM, said:

A little bit off topic but may I ask why I can't view the rest of CR/D (only the first page of threads) in the locked thread archive?

 

Rugs

When things fail, a good leader would look back at all his actions and try to figure out what went wrong to solve the problem and a lousy leader will start to make excuses and look for people to blame. Which are you?


StormCrowReaperManyHat #31 Posted 29 June 2015 - 07:44 PM

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Honestly at this point you should just shut the whole English speaking section down. All goodwill has been destroyed for all time. I'd post examples but that would probably break hypocritical/hypothetical rules and just get me a game ban for being in PBKAC in accordance with rule '13.1.3 We reserve the right to do whatever we feel like because.'

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Cronk #32 Posted 29 June 2015 - 07:45 PM

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View Postbradw1995, on 29 June 2015 - 09:01 PM, said:

 

Just did, not sure what I am missing (sick and have been awake for almost 35 hours so don't be surprised if its something stupidly obvious I am missing).

 

CR/D is gone, has been gone for several days now. Hence the only CR/D threads you can read are the ones in the LTA.

 

This thread is about suggestions for how we would like the CR/D forum to be run if/when they decide to reopen it.


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neokai #33 Posted 29 June 2015 - 07:48 PM

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View PostCronk, on 29 June 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

 

Most of my warnings/Ro's (not that I have a huge amount) have come from moderators of clans that I have been a part of or previously a part of.

 

Mick42 and Chappo from PANZA, Wasaabi and possibly Bartlett from Flex. I'm not disputing any of them, just pointing out that they didn't seem to have any problems pinging me when I stepped over the line. Perhaps we need some unclanned or non CW affiliated mods to oversee CR/D though. It was just a suggestion and I would make the same request if Serb started moderating the forums.

 

@Cronk: I have moderated LUCKers back when I was in LUCK, and it has/can generate a certain amount of friction. I say that because moderators are players too and clan relationships can be tricky when you bring in the red modcap. It's not something i want to subject new mods or worse, in-training mods.

 

I was around when Mick retired, and frankly the roses didn't come out (here or wotlabs) till after he retired. Cent enjoyed that benefit for a short while in his brief "retirement".

 

@allegations about double-hitting:

it has happened, but more as a normal offence escalated by a senior mod, or a 2nd mod correcting an existing offence because first mod failed to understand the context. Downgrade of offences occur but are not reflected in the log iirc; since it requires a staff to manually remove the stronger offence, then apply the weaker offence. I have personally experienced that scenario; Cent can attest to this.

 

Personally I'm keen to hear more about what we can do as moderators beyond red ink, if it's within my/our power to do so. Anything that involves a moderator having to do less paperwork is good news - in-thread warnings of the cut/paste variety etc. PMs are a no-go most times, the turnaround is too slow for offending posts.

 

And remember the focus is on a ruleset for the CR/D - i.e. definition of what constitutes racism is a valid argument, arguing whether certain nationalities are predisposed to cheats and what WG is doing about it should be directed in another private channel.


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bradw1995 #34 Posted 29 June 2015 - 07:52 PM

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View PostCronk, on 29 June 2015 - 09:45 PM, said:

 

CR/D is gone, has been gone for several days now. Hence the only CR/D threads you can read are the ones in the LTA.

 

This thread is about suggestions for how we would like the CR/D forum to be run if/when they decide to reopen it.

 

I am aware of all that, I just want to know why we can't read more than the first page of threads in CR/D now that it is set to read-only. Locked threads in the locked threads archive that are read-only still let you read every single page, so it is fair enough to assume that a sub-forum in the locked thread archive would also let us read every single page.

Edited by bradw1995, 29 June 2015 - 07:55 PM.

 

            If stupidity got us in this mess, how come it can't get us out.


Fruity_Ninja #35 Posted 29 June 2015 - 08:00 PM

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View PostCenturion_NZ, on 29 June 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

So in addition to what has been posted above

 

  • If CRD is to be the Utopia of Trolling or the Forum End-Game then the community need to assist in keeping it to Rivalry/Diplomacy nothing else

 

For this to truly happen, we need to rebuild the foundations of the ex-Utopia of trolling.  That's right, the forum end gamers whom have met their end game.

 

A re opening of CR/D is a step in the right direction, but it will accomplish little without those guys here.  I'm not disputing moderator actions, but there are some key members missing (both against their will or by their own choice).  A reach out should happen with olive branches offered.  Make those deemed worthy a part of this process, so that they buy in to its future.  


Edited by Fruity_Ninja, 29 June 2015 - 08:01 PM.

.....


Cronk #36 Posted 29 June 2015 - 08:01 PM

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View Postneokai, on 29 June 2015 - 09:48 PM, said:

 

@Cronk: I have moderated LUCKers back when I was in LUCK, and it has/can generate a certain amount of friction. I say that because moderators are players too and clan relationships can be tricky when you bring in the red modcap. It's not something i want to subject new mods or worse, in-training mods.

 

 

Others have responded to this better than I could on wotlabs, I think you know where the community stands on the topic of the woes of being an unpaid moderator.

 

View Postbradw1995, on 29 June 2015 - 09:52 PM, said:

 

I am aware of all that, I just want to know why we can't read more than the first page of threads in CR/D now that it is set to read-only. Locked threads in the locked threads archive that are read-only still let you read every single page, so it is fair enough to assume that a sub-forum in the locked thread archive would also let us read every single page.

 

You are sick and sleep deprived, I'm drunk, there's a crossed wire somewhere and I'm not really sure where it is, I can't even see the CR/D forum let alone read any threads in it. Maybe your account has different privileges or something, I'm really not sure.

 

 


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Fruity_Ninja #37 Posted 29 June 2015 - 08:07 PM

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View PostCenturion_NZ, on 29 June 2015 - 01:22 PM, said:

e:  

 

 

* Normal forum rules such as sanctions on insults, inappropriate language, naming and shaming players, etc,, will be enforced within this section, however friendly clan ribbing and clan rivalry is permitted within this section to some extent.

* Racism/Nationalism or any other form of derogatory references, are not tolerated.
* Any clan rivalry outside of this section, will be deemed as off-topic and shall be sanctioned.

 

 

The only thing I'd suggest is the requirement that the clan ribbing is overly gentle be scrapped.  Let it contain some vigour and passion, this is what drives CR/D success and culture.

 

I'm not advocating blatant, unintelligent trolling, but there needs to be some sort of banter.  Racism, sexism, or any ism is crossing the line, yes.  I don't that was ever questioned, but we need to avoid tip toeing around each other for this section to work.

 

 


Edited by Fruity_Ninja, 29 June 2015 - 08:13 PM.

.....


bradw1995 #38 Posted 29 June 2015 - 08:13 PM

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View PostCronk, on 29 June 2015 - 10:01 PM, said:

 

Others have responded to this better than I could on wotlabs, I think you know where the community stands on the topic of the woes of being an unpaid moderator.

 

 

You are sick and sleep deprived, I'm drunk, there's a crossed wire somewhere and I'm not really sure where it is, I can't even see the CR/D forum let alone read any threads in it. Maybe your account has different privileges or something, I'm really not sure.

 

 

 

Offtopic - Locked Thread Archive - right at the top, just above where all the threads are and just under the "Locked Thread Archive" in bold black writing.

 

Screenshot -

Spoiler

 


Edited by bradw1995, 29 June 2015 - 08:15 PM.

 

            If stupidity got us in this mess, how come it can't get us out.


Tanitha #39 Posted 30 June 2015 - 02:51 AM

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View Postbradw1995, on 29 June 2015 - 08:13 PM, said:

 

Offtopic - Locked Thread Archive - right at the top, just above where all the threads are and just under the "Locked Thread Archive" in bold black writing.

 

Screenshot -

Spoiler

 

 

Hello Brad.

I've checked the permissions, none of the posts are hidden or unapproved.

And the permissions in admin are set to view/read only - no replies or new topics.

 

So you should be able to read them.

 

View PostFruity_Ninja, on 29 June 2015 - 08:07 PM, said:

 

The only thing I'd suggest is the requirement that the clan ribbing is overly gentle be scrapped.  Let it contain some vigour and passion, this is what drives CR/D success and culture.

 

Hello Fruity.

It depends,with EU they don't have a rivalry section at all, or even a diplomacy section.

http://forum.worldof...1102-clan-zone/

Just a "General Discussion" in the clan section, which is under normal forum moderation..

 

I agree that a rivalry and diplomacy section at a "friendly clan ribbing" level is much better than no rivalry section like most other servers ...

But even by allowing rivalry and friendly ribbing, its taken much much past that.. and players seem to then think that throwing insults etc around the whole forums at the same level they do in CRD is "ok"

 

Where ever the rules are set, whether CRD forums or anything else , players go past that ..

Players posting to cause unrest/upset, and allowing players to post to cause unrest/upset, both have a lot of pitfalls.

 

It is our aim for players to play WOT and have fun in doing so.

Things that impede the fun of others ...........

 

/Tan

 

 


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AHB_Centurion #40 Posted 30 June 2015 - 03:38 AM

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View PostFruity_Ninja, on 30 June 2015 - 12:00 AM, said:

 

For this to truly happen, we need to rebuild the foundations of the ex-Utopia of trolling.  That's right, the forum end gamers whom have met their end game.

 

A re opening of CR/D is a step in the right direction, but it will accomplish little without those guys here.  I'm not disputing moderator actions, but there are some key members missing (both against their will or by their own choice).  A reach out should happen with olive branches offered.  Make those deemed worthy a part of this process, so that they buy in to its future.  

 

I think that for that to happen those that are among the departed need to show good faith and stop the personal attacks and ridicule, I chat to most of them and yes I would like to see them back but they would be on very very thin ice if an amnesty was arranged and much like prisoner releases it would need to be in small numbers and they would make the decision for all the others that may follow

 

But that is my own personal opinion 


 
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