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9.17.1 Stronghold update: Feedback and issue report [Updated Apr21st]


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xRainbowAssassinx #121 Posted 11 May 2017 - 09:55 PM

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We all dun wunna waste our time.

 

 


                

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Ravvi18 #122 Posted 12 May 2017 - 05:51 PM

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Thanks for the reply iguru, your comment was much more relevant to my question than Rainbow's comment. Some people here have a 1 track mind and also think about themselves because apparently they are better than everyone. 

Ravvi is on a Rampage!!!

 


iguru #123 Posted 12 May 2017 - 06:29 PM

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View PostRavvi18, on 12 May 2017 - 09:51 AM, said:

Thanks for the reply iguru, your comment was much more relevant to my question than Rainbow's comment. Some people here have a 1 track mind and also think about themselves because apparently they are better than everyone. 

 

Np - ik it sux for the newer and inexperienced teams, but the positives they can take from it is the opportunity to learn/copy strats. Overcoming the obstacles like better teams and players are one of the most satisfying experiences in this game.

BetterThanjEbUs #124 Posted 14 May 2017 - 04:40 AM

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View Postiguru, on 11 May 2017 - 01:36 PM, said:

So they need to resolve this by either getting more players to participate(thereby making skill MM more viable and manage the wait time to within reason) or they can keep random MM to ensure everyone gets into games quickly but sometimes face imbalanced matches. 

 

In many ways this is the major problem with anything Clan related on our server at the moment (and realistically, it has been for a long time).  There just isn't enough interest in the modes for the mechanics of it to work out. 

 

I have no idea how many clans there are total, but it seems like it must be 1000s and maybe 10% of them are active in the clan modes & on the forums.  The rest are just rockin' some sweet tags in the platoons & pubbies.  This seems to me to create a bit of a feedback loop when WG (or ourselves) try to discuss how to make things better.

 

The flippant answer is that the simplest way to make all things clan related better, is to get more people & more clans playing.  The trouble is we're the wrong people to ask about how as we're already playing!  WG needs to find a way to reach out to all these mostly inactive Clans and figure out what would get them to do clan things whether that be Strongholds or Global Map.  

 

I sometimes wonder if half of these clans are people who thought it'd be sweet to get some tags and then never figured out that there's this whole Global Map that you can setup battles in, or they've never tried the drop down menu & seen the things for Strongholds!  Its so weird, some of them have decent numbers of members, many of whom are playing a fair bit, yet don't do anything.   eg - here's one I picked out at random:

 

https://asia.wargami...le_type=default

 

87 players, about half of which are on 500 battles for the last 28 days.  In fact, they've probably got more players doing more pubbies than EMPYR do, yet never see them in Skirmishes, Clanwars or anything!  You have to wonder what's the point.  

 

WG must have ways of checking Clans activity - find those with lots of players in pubs but not in Clan stuff and ask why?!



iguru #125 Posted 14 May 2017 - 09:34 PM

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Pls note this is primetime

Posted Image


Edited by iguru, 14 May 2017 - 09:35 PM.


Mobius99 #126 Posted 15 May 2017 - 02:25 PM

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View PostBetterThanjEbUs, on 14 May 2017 - 04:40 AM, said:

find those with lots of players in pubs but not in Clan stuff and ask why?!

 

Basically, you got most the of situations correct.
For the reason of your question, simple, many players join clans just to have someone to talk/plat with when they are online, most of them want stress-free pubs instead of working style Clanwars content, which is something we can try to change in the future but there won't be any conclusion in a short time, since it's mainly Asia environment issue at the moment, not a Global issue.

On the other hand, yes, we should try to raise players' interest in Clanwars content in Asia server, which is what we are planning now and may introduce related action/method/promotion in very soon.

 



xRainbowAssassinx #127 Posted 15 May 2017 - 02:50 PM

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View PostMobius99, on 15 May 2017 - 02:25 PM, said:

 

Basically, you got most the of situations correct.
For the reason of your question, simple, many players join clans just to have someone to talk/plat with when they are online, most of them want stress-free pubs instead of working style Clanwars content, which is something we can try to change in the future but there won't be any conclusion in a short time, since it's mainly Asia environment issue at the moment, not a Global issue.

On the other hand, yes, we should try to raise players' interest in Clanwars content in Asia server, which is what we are planning now and may introduce related action/method/promotion in very soon.

 

 

Lots of stuff people don't read, like the clan competition, most of the server wouldn't even know that happened. you need like ads when you log on "JOIN A CLAN FOR 500 GOLD !! DAYUM SON"

                

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Mobius99 #128 Posted 15 May 2017 - 02:53 PM

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View PostxRainbowAssassinx, on 15 May 2017 - 02:50 PM, said:

 

Lots of stuff people don't read, like the clan competition, most of the server wouldn't even know that happened. you need like ads when you log on "JOIN A CLAN FOR 500 GOLD !! DAYUM SON"

 

Yeah, sort of.

Not really going to give them 500 Gold but more like to increase visibility of Clanwars content and let them know the bar is not that high as they think.



xRainbowAssassinx #129 Posted 15 May 2017 - 02:59 PM

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Very little incentive for people, unless you are really good and can get into a top clan for the gold. Or for the other type of people like me, i just love playing clan wars. This is not the case, as you know, for what seems to be a large portion of the server.

                

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HERO_ShaN_MY #130 Posted 15 May 2017 - 06:55 PM

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Is there any here also having to much taken time on " loading content " every time when to create or joining Strongholds ?
This is so annoying that need like 5-7 mins to complete the " loading content " :sceptic:

iguru #131 Posted 15 May 2017 - 08:23 PM

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View PostHERO_ShaN_MY, on 15 May 2017 - 10:55 AM, said:

Is there any here also having to much taken time on " loading content " every time when to create or joining Strongholds ?
This is so annoying that need like 5-7 mins to complete the " loading content " :sceptic:

 

yes, especially annoying when you are invited to join a detachment, and by the time you are loaded in, it is already full. but it doesn't take 5-7 mins, more like 5-7 seconds

xRainbowAssassinx #132 Posted 15 May 2017 - 08:46 PM

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View Postiguru, on 15 May 2017 - 08:23 PM, said:

 

yes, especially annoying when you are invited to join a detachment, and by the time you are loaded in, it is already full. but it doesn't take 5-7 mins, more like 5-7 seconds

 

Solution: Play PUBGGGGGGGGGGG

                

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iguru #133 Posted 17 May 2017 - 09:59 PM

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100% of my clan officers are playing this new BR game, and even our CW provinces are neglected... I did warn you WG...

tekno #134 Posted 18 May 2017 - 08:18 AM

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IMHO when the airstrikes/artillery/division maintenance costs(influence) were disabled in clan wars, the whole drive to actually participate in Skirmishes disappeared....in fact lesser clans that rarely need to spawn a new division onto the global map(to attack others) have been stockpiling influence earned in clan wars.(well we have)

The bonuses from upgrading a Stronghold are nice, yes....but most of our players have been playing for years with none, so primarily focus on grinding towards tierX tank/earning credits for CW in pubbies, and doing CW.  Plus the EPIC amount of resources needed to get to the top SH...we already HAVE massive grinds to get to tierX anyway our desire to add another is non existent.

For Skirmishes to work, there needs to be ONE tier that is affordable to play(read NOT tens!).


 

Short version.

Pubbies is the game

CW end game content

any further game modes are just superfluous currently, and a distraction from the grind&CW.....the devs need to keep this in mind when implementing new game modes. Frontline I'm looking at you(which I like) if a game mode is a credit drain(as frontline is now) it will fail too.



iguru #135 Posted 19 May 2017 - 08:05 PM

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Mobious, you are one of two people I have contact with in WG, and this is why I directly address you.
WG is steering this boat straight into an iceberg re 1)SH/CW situation[minor], 2)Armor/Gold ammo issue[major]. Take a look at your Twitch streamers and you can clearly see them looking for other alternatives. The market realizes a change and the market is preparing a backup plan. The latest WoT streamer playing BR is SmyleeRage, he's a small streamer but influential because he's got a following being a gold league player. Circon and Foch dedicate more and more time streaming this BR game too. Foch blowing up the WoT forums on the Chrysler issue doesn't help WG either. Atm, WG is being perceived as a greedy company and with the Foch fiasco, an autocratic one as well. Remember, it doesn't matter what WG really are, it is the perception of what it is that it will be judged by.
As I see it, this looks like the beginning of a downward spiral for WGs credibility. I don't think it is NOT reversible, but time and options will become more limited. The deeper you dig the hole, the harder it will be to get out.
 

iguru #136 Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:31 PM

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Pre SH rebalance/rework -
Type 64(w/prem ac) Skirmish with 2hr Credit Boosters = 1.2m - 1.4m credits (70-85% WR)

 

Post 9.17 SH rebalance/Skill MM -

Type 64(w/prem ac) Skirmish with 2hr Credit Boosters = 900,000 - 1.1m credits (70-80% WR)

Reducing rewards to players who actively keep this game mode alive. Increasing the dependency on gold ammo to stay competitive against Thunderbolts, Defenders, VKs, T3485M and such.
Do you want us to love the game or hate it?



xRainbowAssassinx #137 Posted 19 May 2017 - 10:49 PM

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View Postiguru, on 19 May 2017 - 10:31 PM, said:

Pre SH rebalance/rework -
Type 64(w/prem ac) Skirmish with 2hr Credit Boosters = 1.2m - 1.4m credits (70-85% WR)

 

Post 9.17 SH rebalance/Skill MM -

Type 64(w/prem ac) Skirmish with 2hr Credit Boosters = 900,000 - 1.1m credits (70-80% WR)

Reducing rewards to players who actively keep this game mode alive. Increasing the dependency on gold ammo to stay competitive against Thunderbolts, Defenders, VKs, T3485M and such.
Do you want us to love the game or hate it?

 

Well said and if your message isn't getting through and responded on fast (god help us it wont 99% of the time) then these game modes might be saved. Instead of fixing, WG is making more game modes that will also burn out.

                

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Ezz #138 Posted 19 May 2017 - 11:05 PM

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Burn out modes and new prems. Remarkable innovation.

Who the [edited] are you?

Get Spoofed!

Currently moderating your English speaking community : AALGMadibaCenturion_NZ, Elite911

R. Pubbie: "why are all PBKAC players so rude, arrogant and nasty? and why do Mods favor them?"


azmania3000 #139 Posted 20 May 2017 - 12:43 AM

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View PostMobius99, on 15 May 2017 - 04:53 PM, said:

Not really going to give them 500 Gold but more like to increase visibility of Clanwars content and let them know the bar is not that high as they think.

 

TBH I found clanning really hard work. It runs 7 days a week. You have to organise rosters, training sessions, strats.......then deal with clan politics, diplomacy and global map. A lot of time gets chewed up waiting for battle's to pop, and at the end of the day, you've spent an entire day "doing tank stuff" with 1 hour playtime. It's a considerable time investment and the principal reason BURN burned out. We used to be competitive; now merely a social pub clan.

Most guys tell me they don't want to do any work they just want to play computer games lol; reality being they simply don't have the time to invest in the game.

 

All the clanwars creates is a cycle of Clan absorption/dismissal/rebuild. It has a toxic domino effect with everyone wanting to join the 'top clan gold farm' legion to the detriment of healthy competition. 

 

We've got about 40 members backlogged that didn't log in after the second campaign event :( how many years ago?

 

Have played a few SH but the time restrictions has killed it for my clan. Most guys in my clan (aus/nz) log off before SH becomes active >.<. Between my extremely rusty calling and actually getting people logging on in consistent numbers, I can't be bothered with Stronks.

No one wants to play properly on a saturday night; the only night my clan has population in the SH timezone. My "team" all rock up on teamspeak friggin drunk as sailors, thinking they're celebrities because they talk with a damn microphone

 

Not blaming you for my woes Mobius, just trying to say its been woeful and needs fix. Just give us team companies back without time restrictions so I can practice calling ffs. And before anyone asks I'm not leaving my clan, I'll die with it :P



iguru #140 Posted 20 May 2017 - 07:12 PM

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I wanted to write this but i'm lazy/not smart enough, so I just copied it - 

 

Hello All!
Let's have a talk. (It’s a long post TL;DR is at the bottom)
With so much drama unfolding, I’m afraid we might lose sight of why this all happened in the first place. I’m going to try to summarize my thoughts on the game as it is right now, and why I believe the community is upset at what’s happening. Preface: I love this game (for now).

Wargaming monetizes this free to play game in 3 ways (skip if you already know these)
Premium Time - This allows you to progress faster in the game. It provides 50% more credits and experience (combat and crew) per battle.
Premium Tanks - 50% additional crew exp per battle, additional combat experience per battle, more credits per battle, and the ability to move a crew of the same nation/vehicle type, in and out without needing to retrain them.
Gold - In Game currency used to ease your progress along the tech tree. Generally used to reach your desired goals faster. Used to purchase some in game premium tanks (see above), purchase premium time (see above), purchase premium consumables/shells, retrain crews to 100%, Convert free exp (earned on elite or premium tanks) to usable free exp, convert to credits. It can also be used to purchase camo, demount equipment, get emblems, get inscriptions, garage slots, barracks, create clans, and change your nickname.

I’ve spent a lot of money on this game. And I don’t regret it. It’s not bad to spend money on a game/hobby that entertains you and you enjoy. What does spending real money on the game really buy you? For the most part this accelerates your grind to the top of a tech tree. If you don’t spend a dime on the game, you may find yourself low on garage slots, or barracks. Both of which can occasionally be earned through completing monthly missions. In fact you can even earn premium tanks with monthly missions. The point is these players can still buy premium consumables, rent camo, inscriptions, and emblems all with credits. Up to this point a free to play account can have all the same advantages in game - albeit with more time spent grinding exp and credits. THIS IS GOOD. Fair and balanced play should be a fundamental feature. It is not fun for ANYONE when those with more expendable income have an advantage over poorer players.

Why are so many players and some community contributors pointing fingers saying the game is becoming pay to win? Let's take a look at some of the recent changes to some tier 10 heavies.
Type 5 - First take a look at the frontal profile of this behemoth post buff. Looking straight on this tanks weakest spot is the cupola at 210mm. Take into account angle of the shot and effectively you’ll need more than 265mm of pen to reliably damage this tank frontally. (I’m not even going to bring up the derp gun)

Maus - Look at the frontal profile of this monster post buff. The lower plate is the weakest spot at 200mm. Take into account angle of a shot straight on and you’ll need more than 255mm of pen to do damage reliably. A good player will hide that lower plate or at minimum angle the tank forcing you to shoot the next weakest spot - the turret cheek which requires around 265mm of penetration to damage reliably and is only un-angled when that person is shooting back. (the buff also improved the gun and took the Maus to a 55% win rate since the changes)

Why is this a problem? If we look at all tier 10 heavies, the penetration for non premium rounds, the lowest is 246mm (Maus/E100) the highest is 259mm (FV215B), with a majority of tier 10 heavies at 258mm. This means if you are brawling either of these heavies in the SAME tier you’ll need to use premium rounds to damage them. Any bottom tier vehicle will struggle to damage these tanks even with premium ammo. Fighting these tanks is not fun. You don’t get rewarded for knowing weak spots, or getting a good accurate shot. All you can do is load premium ammo and attempt to out trade them (a challenge in itself). If lower tier the only play is to avoid these vehicles altogether. The necessity to load premium rounds changes the economy of the game.

Essentially this increases the amount of credits needed to play tier ten. At this point it’s only 2 tanks, but the trend has started. With some exceptions up until now players were rewarded with knowledge of weakspots. If you knew a good weak spot and could position yourself to hit it, you can use regular ammo to do your damage, and are rewarded with fewer credits spent at the end of a match.

If you still aren’t seeing the pay2win aspect, it’s this. In order to play top tier tanks competitively you are required to use more premium ammo which means you spend more credits. How do you earn credits? Premium time and premium tanks. This change in economy is why /u/SirFoch brought the Maus into his second video. He was alluding to this. By forcing the player base to use more premium ammo, you create a need for credits. This need creates more demand for premium time and premium tanks.

Let's turn our attention to premium tanks. We can all agree that fundamentally the game is only fun when it’s balanced. It’s extremely important that any premium tank regardless of tier fundamentally CANNOT be better than it’s tech tree equivalent. Being of equal capability can start to be damaging as well. This means some players can simply spend money to have a competitive tank. But in my opinion as long as it isn’t better - at least a free account can still contest that person. If any premium tank is better, then the game IS pay2win. WG has pushed the limit with the most recent premium tanks, but I’ll explain why I think they haven’t quite broken the game yet. I do agree that an argument can be made that each one is just as good tier for tier as their tech tree equivalents.

T26E5 - Still has the same lower glacis weak spot that the T32 has. Also the turret is weaker with certain spots that can be penned even when the tank is hull down without premium ammo. Take a look at the T26E5 and T32 live models and rotate them you’ll see the E5 can be penned in the turret with relative ease. The E5 has better pen and slightly higher DPM than the T32 with the 90mm.

AMX M4 49 - most same tier tanks can probably pen the cupola with HE rounds. It only has 60mm of armor and it’s TALL. if the tank is angled even a little bit, high pen non-premium rounds can pen the shoulders of the hull at around 200mm.

Skorpion G - high alpha and high pen gun on a very mobile platform - but it’s a paper tank, and it has a huge profile. Once you spot the tank, it’s easy to hit, and if you hit it, you stand a high chance of doing damage. I do think that 490 alpha is a little high for tier 8, and is especially annoying for tier 6 tanks, but same tier TD’s enjoy similar alpha. Again strong, but tech tree tanks can be equally good. The Borsig is less mobile but has better cammo.

Defender - high alpha, strong armor heavy brawler. Admittedly my favorite of the most recent releases. Debatable better than the IS-3, but the cupolas can be penned easily with only 150mm of armor, the challenge is hitting them. The lower glacis can be a tempting target, but with un angled straight on shot effective armor of 210mm it’s not always easy to pen. The defender has well angled armor throughout the hull and even to the rear. It can pull off some weirdly troll ricochets - and with 440 alpha it can pretty much out trade any heavy tier for tier. IMO this is the closest to pay to win. This tank can easily out trade it’s tech tree equivalent.

Honorable mention - Lorraine 40t - 300 alpha with a 4 round mag can be very punishing. But I don’t believe it to be game breaking. The tank has paper armor, and a 30 second clip reload. A good money maker but by no means better than other tier 8 mediums.

That said let's talk about the metaphorical elephant in the room and the premium that broke the camel’s back. The Chrysler K GF. Why does SirFoch hate it so much? Well because it combines all the issues we just looked at and puts them all wrapped up into one single tank. Frontally the tank doesn’t really have a weak spot. When angled appropriately an attacker will need more than 230mm of penetration to reliably go through the front of the tank. Ironically a majority of the recent premium tanks released can do this without premium ammo. This means most tech tree tier 8 heavies will need premium ammo to reliably penetrate this tank. There are no machine gun ports or cupolas you can shoot in order to avoid this. If the tank is un-angled the lower glacis can be reliably penned by around 200mm, which many tier 8 heavies have, but a decent player will always angle this tank appropriately. If we take a look at the gun we find that it has low pen standard ammo at 198, and high pen premium ammo at 260. Which means you’ll likely need to fire a lot of premium ammo when playing this tank.

Quintessentially this tank represents the sad direction the game is headed.

Looking ahead to the upcoming bonds economy it starts to concern the player base. Bonds are earned faster by skilled players that compete in the ranked battles. Bonds are used to purchase improved equipment which can be used in random play on non tier 10 tanks. This means a veteran player that will have an advantage over anybody who just picked up the game.

So in the future not only will the game give advantages to players who buy premium time and premium tanks, it also gives advantages to players who are veterans. The barrier to entry will go up in both experience and money required. The game we love, I love, is in a tailspin. The bonds with improved equipment will build walls around the game discouraging new players from joining, while the requirement of premium ammo and premium tanks to stay competitive drive veterans out. I’m afraid WoT will begin to lose it’s player base if they don’t start moving things in a new direction.

I’ve offered a lot of criticism. If people want, I can start a discussion on how we can improve the game too.

TL;DR: tier 10 tanks with no weak spots are forcing same tier players to use premium ammo to damage them. This creates a deficit of credits. The need for credits creates demand for both premium time and premium tanks. The Chrysler K GF is the worst of both worlds no weak spots forces same tier tanks to shoot premium to damage them, while also having low regular ammo pen forces the person with the Chrysler K GF to shoot a lot of premium ammo. However all the recent premium tank releases have 225-232 regular ammo pen, meaning they won’t need premium to pen most Chrysler K GFs. Combine this with the incoming bonds economy (only tier 10 owners can play ranked battles, which gives bonds, that can purchase improved equipment for lower tier tanks) and you create a wall preventing new players from joining, and the necessity of premium time and premium tanks (P2W) drives out veteran players essentially killing the entire user base.

~ 13Disciple

I’m worried for you Wargaming. Read the writing on this wall (of text) and change the outcome before you kill the game.






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