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What the heck do you do with the M6?


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karazure #21 Posted 08 December 2017 - 01:32 PM

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View PostCardinalMite, on 08 December 2017 - 04:30 AM, said:

I disagree with your T29 opinion, just because it is hyper strong hull down does not mean it is poor otherwise compared to its tier 7 peers. A one trick pony would be something that is weak when not in its favoured position. The T29 is so good (arguably best HT tier for tier in the game) because it does ok in many situations and when hull down can do well even when not top tier. 

 

M6 is a pretty good, mobile heavium just don’t rely on it bouncing anything, use hard cover and use its gun with decent ish alpha and good pen and it is effective.

 

Yes, T29 is arguable one of the best T7 heavy available. But to me unless its hold down, other Heavy such as IS will fair much better in all round situation. You can disagree but thats my opinion.


CardinalMite #22 Posted 08 December 2017 - 01:56 PM

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View Postkarazure, on 08 December 2017 - 05:32 AM, said:

 

Yes, T29 is arguable one of the best T7 heavy available. But to me unless its hold down, other Heavy such as IS will fair much better in all round situation. You can disagree but thats my opinion.

Fair enough that is your opinion. How does the 175 pen gun and poor gun depression play out versus 198pen and 10 degrees gun depression? How does that make an IS more of an all rounder? Especially when not top tier...

 

We’ll have to agree to disagree I think.


Edited by CardinalMite, 08 December 2017 - 02:01 PM.

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FramFramson #23 Posted 08 December 2017 - 02:16 PM

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Now, neokai was right - playing it more like a medium yielded immediate improvements. However, I really hate playing heaviums.

 

So, as it turned out, the answer in the end was "To hell with this, just Free XP the last 28000 and just get on to the T29". (and also because the Crew retraining discount was about to end)

 

The T29 of course is an absolute JOY to play, even with only the 90mm and the tracks unlocked. Worth every bit of that Free XP.


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hate_pubbehs #24 Posted 08 December 2017 - 02:18 PM

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M6 is a dream. Only reason I don't still own one is it's too ugly.

Spam gold and why are you even mentioning the armour? It is quite clearly the same hull as the tier 5...

It's a reasonably mobile hulldown beast with a nice gun.

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hate_pubbehs #25 Posted 08 December 2017 - 02:21 PM

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View Postkarazure, on 08 December 2017 - 05:32 PM, said:

 

Yes, T29 is arguable one of the best T7 heavy available. But to me unless its hold down, other Heavy such as IS will fair much better in all round situation. You can disagree but thats my opinion.

I agree with you completely.

 

T29 is an exceptionally good one trick pony. But I'd rather play an IS Tiger or AMX M4 any day for personal preference. 

 

If if I wanted to guarantee myself a result yeh I'd go IS and then T29.


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CardinalMite #26 Posted 08 December 2017 - 02:22 PM

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View PostFramFramson, on 08 December 2017 - 06:16 AM, said:

Now, neokai was right - playing it more like a medium yielded immediate improvements. However, I really hate playing heaviums.

 

So, as it turned out, the answer in the end was "To hell with this, just Free XP the last 28000 and just get on to the T29". (and also because the Crew retraining discount was about to end)

 

The T29 of course is an absolute JOY to play, even with only the 90mm and the tracks unlocked. Worth every bit of that Free XP.

T29 is particularly good for those get 3x hp done/blocked missions especially if you don’t use the top turret which reduces your health but keeps same armour at a slight reduction in ROF. 


Edited by CardinalMite, 08 December 2017 - 02:50 PM.

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FramFramson #27 Posted 08 December 2017 - 02:28 PM

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I played the IS for quite a while, but it has that heavium deal where I just can't seem to make it work (plus of course the IS's permanently-dead-driver problem)

 

Basically, for a tank's defensive characteristics, I want to either go fast, have great camo, or actually effective armour for it's tier (and preferably two of those, if possible, though there aren't many such tanks) - essentially one thing strong enough to rely on. All-rounders might be more flexible in skilled hands, but to me they feel more like jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none.


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FramFramson #28 Posted 08 December 2017 - 02:30 PM

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View Posthate_pubbehs, on 08 December 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

M6 is a dream. Only reason I don't still own one is it's too ugly.

Spam gold and why are you even mentioning the armour? It is quite clearly the same hull as the tier 5...

It's a reasonably mobile hulldown beast with a nice gun.

 

I certainly agree that the gold pen is insane for a T6.

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neokai #29 Posted 08 December 2017 - 02:49 PM

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View PostFramFramson, on 08 December 2017 - 04:26 AM, said:

Not saying it's a bad tank! Just that there's no obvious play style for it - that's why I'm asking what I should do!

 

Just to recap:

  • M6 plays like a heavium. It is fast enough, and has armor/hp in the right places to outmatch most  mediums it faces.
  • Spend your hp wisely. Taking a hit to get a favourable position is worthwhile, trading hits with other HTs is often not (because of the mad gains HT hp get in tier 7 and 8).
  • Your armor is not your selling point. It is the combination of firepower, mobility and workable armor (in context) that is powerful.
  • Unlike the T29, the M6 does not play strongly to a type. It however is versatile enough to exploit openings in the tactical situation.
  • The M6 is a dreamboat for folks who favour opportunistic damage dealing (similar to FCM 50t or AMX M4 45 in full try-hard config)

 

And to toss in some (more) of my thoughts.

Key M6 strengths:

  • Mobile (on par with mediums)
  • Has armor in the right places (turret and front hull is reasonably armored, only weak point frontally is the plate the driver slit is on)
  • Decent hp that you can trade a few hits early game
  • 90mm gun has both alpha and dpm depending on situation (comparable to tier 8 meds)

 

Key M6 weaknesses:

  • Hull is long and side profile is an easy target; don't sidescrape.
  • Tier 6 hp is still on the low end, especially compared to the gains tier 7 and tier 8 tanks get; a tier 8 HT will have more than double your hp.
  • Your armor is not stupidly invulnerable, especially compared to the super heavies. You have to pick what tanks you want to tank shots from, and avoid fire from other tanks.
  • In heavium role the M6 is vulnerable to higher tier LTs or concentrated fire, you are not invulnerable and still have to pick your engagements in a highly mobile environment (compared to HT alley where it's unlikely the HTs will reposition)

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CardinalMite #30 Posted 08 December 2017 - 02:55 PM

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View Postneokai, on 08 December 2017 - 06:49 AM, said:

 

Just to recap:

  • M6 plays like a heavium. It is fast enough, and has armor/hp in the right places to outmatch most  mediums it faces.
  • Spend your hp wisely. Taking a hit to get a favourable position is worthwhile, trading hits with other HTs is often not (because of the mad gains HT hp get in tier 7 and 8).
  • Your armor is not your selling point. It is the combination of firepower, mobility and workable armor (in context) that is powerful.
  • Unlike the T29, the M6 does not play strongly to a type. It however is versatile enough to exploit openings in the tactical situation.
  • The M6 is a dreamboat for folks who favour opportunistic damage dealing (similar to FCM 50t or AMX M4 45 in full try-hard config)

 

And to toss in some (more) of my thoughts.

Key M6 strengths:

  • Mobile (on par with mediums)
  • Has armor in the right places (turret and front hull is reasonably armored, only weak point frontally is the plate the driver slit is on)
  • Decent hp that you can trade a few hits early game
  • 90mm gun has both alpha and dpm depending on situation (comparable to tier 8 meds)

 

Key M6 weaknesses:

  • Hull is long and side profile is an easy target; don't sidescrape.
  • Tier 6 hp is still on the low end, especially compared to the gains tier 7 and tier 8 tanks get; a tier 8 HT will have more than double your hp.
  • Your armor is not stupidly invulnerable, especially compared to the super heavies. You have to pick what tanks you want to tank shots from, and avoid fire from other tanks.
  • In heavium role the M6 is vulnerable to higher tier LTs or concentrated fire, you are not invulnerable and still have to pick your engagements in a highly mobile environment (compared to HT alley where it's unlikely the HTs will reposition)

Good summary one caveat on mobility is watch out for its reverse speed it can’t match a decent medium there and can bite you when poking.


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DefendingTheFatherland #31 Posted 08 December 2017 - 02:58 PM

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Just because a heavy tank is classed as such, does not mean it has to be used as one. It's like the T-10, VK 45.02A, T26E5, T32, 112/WZ-111/Alpine Tiger etc when top tier by all means go and be a proper heavy tank, if you are mid tier, you can depending on what their lineup is, and if you're bottom tier use it as a big medium and bully them. What this does is makes you not get eliminated by tanks that make your armor and such useless, but instead you make the medium tank flank collapse which in turn allows you and whoever is with you to get behind those that you can not take on head to head.

Edited by Defending_The_Fatherland, 08 December 2017 - 02:59 PM.

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FramFramson #32 Posted 08 December 2017 - 03:58 PM

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The thing is, when I want to be an opportunistic all-rounder, I tend to just play an actual medium, a relatively fast one at that. I only play heaviums or slow MTs out of necessity (grinds, etc.). I think this is because I like to relocate a lot and pop up in different places. I also, don't enjoy my armour being a gamble, I like knowing it's either mostly reliable or mostly unreliable, so gimmicky Min-Maxed HTs like the AMX M4 49 are actually great for me.

 

EDIT: I think this desire for reliability is a way of cutting down the calculations and decisions I need to make on the fly. It reduces the overall "noise", if you get my meaning? With a heavium, it's easy to end up with decision paralysis. 


Edited by FramFramson, 08 December 2017 - 04:00 PM.

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DefendingTheFatherland #33 Posted 08 December 2017 - 05:02 PM

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View PostFramFramson, on 08 December 2017 - 07:58 PM, said:

The thing is, when I want to be an opportunistic all-rounder, I tend to just play an actual medium, a relatively fast one at that. I only play heaviums or slow MTs out of necessity (grinds, etc.). I think this is because I like to relocate a lot and pop up in different places. I also, don't enjoy my armour being a gamble, I like knowing it's either mostly reliable or mostly unreliable, so gimmicky Min-Maxed HTs like the AMX M4 49 are actually great for me.

 

EDIT: I think this desire for reliability is a way of cutting down the calculations and decisions I need to make on the fly. It reduces the overall "noise", if you get my meaning? With a heavium, it's easy to end up with decision paralysis. 

 

Mate, just go with your gut feeling, as I said, if you are bottom tier or mid tier with their top tier HT's being much stronger than you, then just go with the mediums. You'll have much better results compared to trying to battle with tanks you can't beat, It's like trying to out-headbutt a goat, it's not going to happen and will likely get you killed.

Always look at their lineup and use the 30s countdown to figure out what you're going to do.


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neokai #34 Posted 08 December 2017 - 05:26 PM

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View PostFramFramson, on 08 December 2017 - 03:58 PM, said:

The thing is, when I want to be an opportunistic all-rounder, I tend to just play an actual medium, a relatively fast one at that. I only play heaviums or slow MTs out of necessity (grinds, etc.). I think this is because I like to relocate a lot and pop up in different places. I also, don't enjoy my armour being a gamble, I like knowing it's either mostly reliable or mostly unreliable, so gimmicky Min-Maxed HTs like the AMX M4 49 are actually great for me.

 

EDIT: I think this desire for reliability is a way of cutting down the calculations and decisions I need to make on the fly. It reduces the overall "noise", if you get my meaning? With a heavium, it's easy to end up with decision paralysis. 

 

I know that feel, but you are also going to have to assume you are going to be top tier if you want that "reliable" armor feeling. Speaking of which, you should give the ST-I or IS-4 a spin if you want that bouncing feeling.

 

As you internalize more decisions (i.e. they become trained reflexes) you free up more "mindspace" to take on other aspects of tanking. The me 2 years back won't have played soft tanks to any standard but camp bush for instance.


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FramFramson #35 Posted 08 December 2017 - 06:48 PM

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Well, certain tanks can have semi-reliable armour even when bottom tier (M4 45, Strv 103, etc.), you just have to know which guns or angles will have a good bounce chance, and which ones will ruin your day in a shot. I feel like the T29 still holds up very well against T8s.

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Sir_Direkin #36 Posted 08 December 2017 - 06:53 PM

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View PostFramFramson, on 08 December 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

I feel like the T29 still holds up very well against T8s.

 

That's because it does ;)




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