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With North Spawn boosts removed, has Cliff become severely imbalanced?


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FramFramson #1 Posted 26 December 2017 - 03:13 AM

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More and more it seems control of the 2 line, and the area that forms a square out of E-F 2-3 in particular determines the outcome of the game on Cliff.

 

 

The problem is that usually one team sends literally NO ONE to the 2 line to even contest it, let alone take the square. Usually this is the North spawn, because it takes slightly longer to rush the square from the North spawn.

 

Previously there were two boosts which sort of balanced things out: The uphill slide at D4, and the sniper loft at A5. The Southern team would take the Square, but could be held off or at least contested by tanks at D4, or in the worst case, fall back to A5 and try to snipe.

 

Now the A5 boost I can sort of understand removing, since it made the endgame a nightmare, but it had two parts and the lower one wasn't even a boost really. The mountain goat position high up on the hill, sure, but why block both of them? And the D4 slope was actually fair, because it seemed to balance the southern advantage with the square somewhat. It certainly wasn't was not broken and was sometimes even useless, because a tank trying to shoot from there usually had to fully expose themselves to get shots.

 

Now it seems like which ever team rushes the square is pretty much guaranteed victory, and this is usually the better-positioned southern team.

 

So what do you guys think? The 2 line used to be a TD death zone, but these days MTs can get into the safe part of the square before most TDs can spot them. And if one side doesn't contest the 2 line with fast tanks at all, the TDs have no spotters, while the tanks which control the square can usually spot enemy TDs (and even enemy arty sometimes) with ease. Are there new strategies for a North team? Attacking round the 9 line has always been rough due to the lack of cover when coming out from the mountain, especially so for attacking north teams (attacking south teams have multiple rocks and buildings for cover when they come out onto the north side from the 9 line). Will the meta adapt somehow or is the map just broken now?


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Buck3t #2 Posted 26 December 2017 - 09:50 AM

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Has been South favoured long before this. Probably even more so now...

I'd actually really like to see the numbers of some of these maps from WG. My expectations would be Cliff South 80%, Mines North 80% and Ruinberg North 70%.
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Valheru_ #3 Posted 26 December 2017 - 12:41 PM

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Cliff has been pretty unbalanced for a while, but the boost at A5 kinda middled things out if you learned to be patient when playing North. With the boost removed, south spawn gets the donut for free every game with 0 risk when poking. They get the hill for free because it's easier to climb from south which then means you get the 1/2 line control for free.

 

I'm going to check my replays, but I'm almost 100% certain I've had north spawn cliff ever since the new patch, and I have a 100% loss rate on it. Would love for tan to straight up remove the map from rotation until they fix it, it's incredibly unbalanced 


Edited by Va1heru, 26 December 2017 - 12:41 PM.

 

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FramFramson #4 Posted 26 December 2017 - 01:26 PM

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I just don't know why they removed those boosts. They were literally the only thing that kept the map balanced in any way at all.

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sirroger #5 Posted 31 December 2017 - 08:43 PM

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I concur

had a number of games since the map change and north always loses

just impossible to counter the tanks flanking from the 3 line from the south spawn

I would be interested to see the map statistics before and after the change



DanLBob #6 Posted 31 December 2017 - 08:46 PM

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Russians must not like mountain climbing.

 

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thestigscommunistcousin #7 Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:03 PM

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Bump, WG still hasn't fixed this imba af map, south spawn is literally chasing as much damage as you can before the enemy team melts and north is meatshielding for as much damage as you can until your team eventually dies, because pubbies don't know how to trade/share HP to contest important areas which the south gets for free. Spawning north screwed over my T-54 ltwt mark on EU and delayed it by like 150 games because of continuously bad RNG/tilt. The A5 climb is what kept north competitive because you couldn't peek for free from the donut or just dominate mid/lighthouse without repercussion. Sure it was pretty unhealthy but it overshadowed the imbalanced nature of the map with regards to how south gets all the good early positions (mid is a no-go zone because of the free crossfire, south gets to rush donut faster, south gets lighthouse safely while north climb is very exposed).

MagicalFlyingFox #8 Posted 13 February 2018 - 03:59 PM

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tbf if a boost is the only thing keeping a map from being imbalanced, WG have dun goofed up and should have removed the boost and balanced the map. 

 

The D4 boost removal really killed north spawn balance. A5 was simply OP while D4 levelled the playing field a little bit. 


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 A. Guy on 02 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

Destroyer of Tier 6 CW... says it all about you.


Puggsley #9 Posted 14 February 2018 - 09:51 AM

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Only 51.21% of all games for South Spawn, but that jumps to nearly 54% for tiers 8 to X.

 

Steppes is the killer for side 1, winning 55% of all games, and nearly 57% of tiers 8 to X.



Profanisaurus #10 Posted 14 February 2018 - 10:26 AM

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Is that sample only since the boosts were removed though Puggs?

 

Would also suggest there is a correlation on Steppes between sides who commit to the 1-2 line and losing.


Edited by Profanisaurus, 14 February 2018 - 10:27 AM.


Fluffy_Yak #11 Posted 16 February 2018 - 08:09 AM

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I was south, doesnt matter if 10 of the enemy team yolo rush you (I was at F4)

They rekt me and a CAX in a 3-5-7 matchup :pepo:

They won the match because somehow Sammich Went full pubbie whisperer and squashed me :(


 

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Puggsley #12 Posted 13 March 2018 - 12:27 PM

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For teh last month after the boosts have been removed

 

Still only 51.2% of all games for South Spawn, but that jumps to nearly 53.7% for tiers 8 to X. Edit (this is for Cliff)

 

Steppes is the still killer for side 1, winning 55.2% of all games, and nearly 56.7% of tiers 8 to X.


Edited by Puggsley, 14 March 2018 - 11:56 AM.


Fluffy_Yak #13 Posted 14 March 2018 - 07:47 AM

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imo its not super imbalanced like previously said (80% wr for one side)

Me and saffe were dumped into the wrong side for winning, yet we managed to pull a 15-4 win,

with me in a 50b and saffe in his tvp. neither of which are specific carry tanks.

Just because we played the map correctly, we both clipped out tanks as heavy's crossed,

then just moved around taking opportunity clips not doing anything special, and we won because we bled them quick enough,

From this side to win you need to either rush the bowl  with enough tanks you can just smash through and then farm the people in mid,

Or go mid immediately and bleed the heavies as quick as possible to make it impossible for them to push around, and then get defensive so bowl cant do anything.

Saying this it is still imbalanced in the fact that the average pubbies dont know how to deal with this map 


 

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MagicalFlyingFox #14 Posted 14 March 2018 - 11:25 AM

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View PostBlazeDeL, on 14 March 2018 - 10:47 AM, said:

imo its not super imbalanced like previously said (80% wr for one side)

Me and saffe were dumped into the wrong side for winning, yet we managed to pull a 15-4 win,

with me in a 50b and saffe in his tvp. neither of which are specific carry tanks.

Just because we played the map correctly, we both clipped out tanks as heavy's crossed,

then just moved around taking opportunity clips not doing anything special, and we won because we bled them quick enough,

From this side to win you need to either rush the bowl  with enough tanks you can just smash through and then farm the people in mid,

Or go mid immediately and bleed the heavies as quick as possible to make it impossible for them to push around, and then get defensive so bowl cant do anything.

Saying this it is still imbalanced in the fact that the average pubbies dont know how to deal with this map 

 

Just because you had a game where you were able to outplay the enemy, doesn't make the map balanced.

 

You can lose on both sides, you can win on both sides, in general though, you are going to lose more often on the north spawn because of the slight imbalance in each side. This used to be balanced with the climb to the middle, but is no longer the case. 

 

EIther way, i don't expect WG to do anything since 1.0 is coming out soon. 

Plus they never fixed mines encounter since they broke the spawns. 

 

 


Edited by MagicalFlyingFox, 14 March 2018 - 11:26 AM.

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 A. Guy on 02 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

Destroyer of Tier 6 CW... says it all about you.


CelestiaLudenberg #15 Posted 14 March 2018 - 11:51 AM

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View PostBlazeDeL, on 14 March 2018 - 11:47 AM, said:

imo its not super imbalanced like previously said (80% wr for one side)

Me and saffe were dumped into the wrong side for winning, yet we managed to pull a 15-4 win,

with me in a 50b and saffe in his tvp. neither of which are specific carry tanks.

Just because we played the map correctly, we both clipped out tanks as heavy's crossed,

then just moved around taking opportunity clips not doing anything special, and we won because we bled them quick enough,

From this side to win you need to either rush the bowl  with enough tanks you can just smash through and then farm the people in mid,

Or go mid immediately and bleed the heavies as quick as possible to make it impossible for them to push around, and then get defensive so bowl cant do anything.

Saying this it is still imbalanced in the fact that the average pubbies dont know how to deal with this map 

 

Probably has something to do with the fact that it was you and Saffe, both of you alone would be able to win against 7 pubbies, let alone when you've got 13 pubbies to 'help'.

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Profanisaurus #16 Posted 14 March 2018 - 12:15 PM

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Newsflash 60%er+ players able to over 4% disadvantage.




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