Jump to content


Where is Wargaming taking World of Tanks?


  • Please log in to reply
120 replies to this topic

Alfreuson #1 Posted 02 January 2018 - 12:30 AM

    Sergeant

  • Member
  • 15202 battles
  • 120
  • Member since:
    12-21-2013

Hello fellow tankers! :)

 

After more than 2 years of hibernating, I'm back to play again. But while I was not playing, I still keep an eye on what's going on in WoT. I did research on the current status while downloading the game and my findings are quite disturbing.

 

One of these and for me, the most alarming fact is: WG before was very careful in balancing the game, keeping the premium vehicles' performance in the middle of stock and elite, even controlling the numbers by reducing the opportunity of acquiring one (Type 59, E 25). But now, WG seems to not care about the precious game balance by introducing OP prem tanks. One obviously ridiculously OP prem tank is the Obj 252u Defender; a prem tank that outperforms even an elite IS-3, [edited]??? And also reviving the E 25 in the prem shop that WG has emphasized before that has given negative effect on the general gameplay due to its unusually high number in the game so they took it off the shop... but now it's back??? and this is just one of the several reasons why the population of players is declining (in which I'm not gonna tackle one by one)...

 

My very point is as the title says, where is WG taking WoT? In my opinion, WG stopped caring about the game balance and just became unusually too greedy... Now looking at the big picture: Seeing the population on a steady decline, and WG seems to make short term big profit that doesn't seem to be healthy for a long term perspective... All games have their own dead end and will eventually die, it's just a matter of time, a matter of the devs' efforts to prolong the game... But has WG given up on WoT? Accepted that the game is dying and is now making final efforts to extract as much profit as possible before the game finally dies?.. Coz if I'm in WG's shoes, IF I see that my business is hopeless and is dying, I'll do the exact same... So it still a good idea to invest in these new premium tanks? I'm really tempted to buy a couple of new ones but that makes me fall victim of the final phase of the game... IF I'm right...

 

But how I wish I'm wrong about everything and I wish WG has something big coming up to attract new players and revive the old players...



pokeranger24 #2 Posted 02 January 2018 - 01:20 AM

    First lieutenant

  • Member
  • 7389 battles
  • 655
  • [SPIDA] SPIDA
  • Member since:
    11-04-2016

Probably they are running low on money due to expenditure on WoT 1.0, thus selling premium tanks left and right ..........

 

While E25 is OP its not great as it used to be due to introduction of new tanks still its pretty OP as hell in certain scenarios 

 

And Defender is [edited] to this game


RNG = NTR


southerner #3 Posted 02 January 2018 - 05:11 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 11831 battles
  • 1,370
  • [2MEKE] 2MEKE
  • Member since:
    09-01-2013
I tend to think premium tanks like the defender and E25 are only as good as the players that drive them. I own a 252U, but im a sub 50% player so my defender is no big threat.
indignatio regis nuntii mortis et vir sapiens placabit ea 

Ezz #4 Posted 02 January 2018 - 07:00 AM

    Major

  • Beta-Tester
  • 57552 battles
  • 33,650
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    07-17-2012

The shift to direct p2w has been pretty disappointing but I guess expected. It's not like wg are the only ones guilty of corporate greed. 

 

They could of course reverse this by placing balance back ahead of revenue but sadly they've shown little signs of doing so. 


Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

>9000 cynicism brought to you by P2W, RIP Balance and the Cartoon Connection

Currently moderating your English speaking community : AALGMadibaCenturion_NZ, Elite911, Moonbase Patrol Copter 7

R. Pubbie: "why are all PBKAC players so rude, arrogant and nasty? and why do Mods favor them?"


BrutalOlyx #5 Posted 02 January 2018 - 08:14 AM

    Corporal

  • Member
  • 23101 battles
  • 99
  • [BAMF] BAMF
  • Member since:
    06-05-2016

View PostAlfreuson, on 02 January 2018 - 12:30 AM, said:

  IF I see that my business is hopeless and is dying, I'll do the exact same... So it still a good idea to invest in these new premium tanks? I'm really tempted to buy 

 

Imbalance and OP premium tanks are a myth.

 

The E25 is not OP. Any tier7 light tank in the game can circle jerk and humiliate a E25.

 

And the Defender is not OP either. In the last CWs season, a lot of players and clans were preferring the IS3 over the Defender due to the fact that the IS3 is faster, better gun for midrange sniping, and faster reload that could out DPM a Defender in a brawl. The Defender lower plate is massive and any half decent player in an IS3 knew how to pen it. The VK 100 is another tech tree tank that can take down a defender.

 

I cannot think of one premium tank that does not have a tech tree equivalent. Strv S1 has the Udes. The defender has the IS3 and VK, The T71 and AMX 1375 is far more of a worry than an E25 (IMO). If you dont have a Lor 40t get a T69.

 

It is not pay to win. People play the premiums so they can make money/affordable spam premum ammo.

 

 

And they are moving to full HD version 1 next year. This keeps this game well and truly valid.

 

Technically this game is excellent.and very appealing to any new player. WG need to do more to retain new players though if they want to grow though.

 

 



southerner #6 Posted 02 January 2018 - 08:38 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 11831 battles
  • 1,370
  • [2MEKE] 2MEKE
  • Member since:
    09-01-2013

BrutalOlyx

 

Technically this game is excellent.and very appealing to any new player. WG need to do more to retain new players though if they want to grow though.

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Then WG has to do something to protect  the new players from old seasoned seal clubber players. A new player is only going to take so much being  killed time and again before he/she quits for good, I  think and idea would be that any player that has over 4000 games is excluded from teams that have more than 4 new players in tiers 1 to 4 total in both teams. Leave the newcomers alone to figure out the game for Gods sake. You seal clubbers are killing off the future of the game just for easy points and stats.

 

Hmm going  back and reading it  WG has the info on  a players stats, so all new players with under 4000 games are stuck together with the MM in tiers 1 to 4. Any players that learn fast gradually get introduced to the main gaming population.

 

That in my  mind is very fair.


Edited by southerner, 02 January 2018 - 08:39 AM.

indignatio regis nuntii mortis et vir sapiens placabit ea 

Ezz #7 Posted 02 January 2018 - 09:06 AM

    Major

  • Beta-Tester
  • 57552 battles
  • 33,650
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    07-17-2012

Thankfully we have stats to settle discussions on whether tanks are or are not op. They tend to be far more effective than opinion.

 

Amusingly on the defender even wg admitted it was broken. It's just a shame they are afraid to nerf it. 


Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

>9000 cynicism brought to you by P2W, RIP Balance and the Cartoon Connection

Currently moderating your English speaking community : AALGMadibaCenturion_NZ, Elite911, Moonbase Patrol Copter 7

R. Pubbie: "why are all PBKAC players so rude, arrogant and nasty? and why do Mods favor them?"


Alfreuson #8 Posted 02 January 2018 - 09:29 AM

    Sergeant

  • Member
  • 15202 battles
  • 120
  • Member since:
    12-21-2013

View PostBrutalOlyx, on 02 January 2018 - 08:14 AM, said:

 

Imbalance and OP premium tanks are a myth.

 

And the Defender is not OP either. In the last CWs season, a lot of players and clans were preferring the IS3 over the Defender due to the fact that the IS3 is faster, better gun for midrange sniping, and faster reload that could out DPM a Defender in a brawl. The Defender lower plate is massive and any half decent player in an IS3 knew how to pen it. The VK 100 is another tech tree tank that can take down a defender.

 

 

 

The point is, Defender should be compared to its peer prem tanks, but it's being compared to IS-3, even being used in CW??? These premises alone marks it as OP...



Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #9 Posted 02 January 2018 - 11:20 AM

    Major

  • Beta-Tester
  • 62612 battles
  • 6,821
  • Member since:
    05-30-2012

Brutal, try angling your Defender hull slightly and the LFP can bounce tier 8 gold. Face hugging and driving backwards into a hill also strengthens the LFP. Plus, VK100 cupola is weak against aimbots and turret is weak against normal good players. 

 

And even if it is only 52% winrate, if you consider the 40% winrate on similar IS series tanks it is an unmistakable improvement.


Edited by Aoyama_Blue_Mountain, 02 January 2018 - 11:22 AM.

I'm a simple person - If you don't dare to upload your replays, I assume you downloaded your skill


Steel_Spektor #10 Posted 02 January 2018 - 12:45 PM

    Staff sergeant

  • Beta-Tester
  • 23064 battles
  • 476
  • [SCREW] SCREW
  • Member since:
    07-09-2012

View PostEzz, on 02 January 2018 - 09:00 AM, said:

The shift to direct p2w has been pretty disappointing but I guess expected. It's not like wg are the only ones guilty of corporate greed. 

 

They could of course reverse this by placing balance back ahead of revenue but sadly they've shown little signs of doing so. 

 

This.



BrutalOlyx #11 Posted 02 January 2018 - 08:13 PM

    Corporal

  • Member
  • 23101 battles
  • 99
  • [BAMF] BAMF
  • Member since:
    06-05-2016

View PostAoyama_Blue_Mountain, on 02 January 2018 - 11:20 AM, said:

Brutal, try angling your Defender hull slightly and the LFP can bounce tier 8 gold.

Cant work out how to embed pics on thsi forum, but have uploaded to show my point

 

 https://ibb.co/bJzFZw

https://ibb.co/cUreuw

https://ibb.co/c7UhEw

 

First picture shows how easy the IS3 pens the Defender upper plate when slightly angled.

Second picture shows the large weakspot below the Defenders turret when facehugging the IS3

Third picture shows the auto-ricochet when the Defender is trying to hit the same spot on the IS3, and the fact that the only viable weakspot to to hut is the thin cupola.

 

I learnt this lesson the hard way when playing the Defender in clanwars. If the Defender facehugs the IS3, you will lose. Dont trade with the IS3 or its faster reload will doom you. Dont snipe mid distance with a IS3 because the IS3 gun is far more accurate than the Defender Potato gun.

 

The Spaced armor layout for the IS3 is far better too,

 

OP Defender is a meme. No basis for it, especially anyone who has played a lot of CW games with and against it. The Russians dont rate the Defender very high and either do I. I stopped playing the thing not long after patch 9.18 with the stupid 3/5/7 matchmaking (Defender always bottom tier) and avoid playing any Tier 8 Heavies unless they are Pref Matchmaking

 

 


Edited by BrutalOlyx, 02 January 2018 - 08:27 PM.


phutev #12 Posted 03 January 2018 - 09:43 AM

    Staff sergeant

  • Member
  • 18500 battles
  • 277
  • Member since:
    01-07-2013

View PostEzz, on 01 January 2018 - 11:00 PM, said:

The shift to direct p2w has been pretty disappointing but I guess expected. It's not like wg are the only ones guilty of corporate greed. 

 

They could of course reverse this by placing balance back ahead of revenue but sadly they've shown little signs of doing so. 

 

 From the outset, it could also be taken as signs of a set up for acquisition.

 

WoT 1.0 -> influx of players and revenue -> sack the extras brought on for 1.0 -> excellent financials in the next FY -> Activision/EA

 

But WoT is still quite a bit of a cash cow for WG so I can't see them flicking it off as an IP by itself as they will lose the revenue for development of their other IP. If this were to happen it would be all of WG.


Edited by phutev, 03 January 2018 - 09:45 AM.


Ezz #13 Posted 03 January 2018 - 10:23 AM

    Major

  • Beta-Tester
  • 57552 battles
  • 33,650
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    07-17-2012

Yeah not sure they'll be letting go of this any time soon. 

 

And brutal not really the point of the thread but I'm curious as to why you feel the defender isn't op yet it is your best performing 8 heavy.  As blue noted, by a fair margin to the is3.  In fact the only thing close is your Vk which is also regarded as being broken. It's similar to how your lorry drastically out performs your other 8 meds. Yet I have a hunch that you will say it isn't op either. 


Edited by Ezz, 03 January 2018 - 10:24 AM.

Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

>9000 cynicism brought to you by P2W, RIP Balance and the Cartoon Connection

Currently moderating your English speaking community : AALGMadibaCenturion_NZ, Elite911, Moonbase Patrol Copter 7

R. Pubbie: "why are all PBKAC players so rude, arrogant and nasty? and why do Mods favor them?"


Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #14 Posted 03 January 2018 - 10:56 AM

    Major

  • Beta-Tester
  • 62612 battles
  • 6,821
  • Member since:
    05-30-2012

Today/yesterday if you buy the STG Guard WG gives you free 2.5k gold and some free reserves.

 

So they are sticking to the "f*** you older customers" but they are pulling in the time between when a customer is considered old or new to just between around 2 months and 2 weeks considering the Christmas sale on STG.


I'm a simple person - If you don't dare to upload your replays, I assume you downloaded your skill


CardinalMite #15 Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:16 PM

    First lieutenant

  • Member
  • 25009 battles
  • 579
  • Member since:
    04-18-2014

View PostBrutalOlyx, on 02 January 2018 - 12:14 AM, said:

 

Imbalance and OP premium tanks are a myth.

 

The E25 is not OP. Any tier7 light tank in the game can circle jerk and humiliate a E25.

 

And the Defender is not OP either. In the last CWs season, a lot of players and clans were preferring the IS3 over the Defender due to the fact that the IS3 is faster, better gun for midrange sniping, and faster reload that could out DPM a Defender in a brawl. The Defender lower plate is massive and any half decent player in an IS3 knew how to pen it. The VK 100 is another tech tree tank that can take down a defender.

 

I cannot think of one premium tank that does not have a tech tree equivalent. Strv S1 has the Udes. The defender has the IS3 and VK, The T71 and AMX 1375 is far more of a worry than an E25 (IMO). If you dont have a Lor 40t get a T69.

 

It is not pay to win. People play the premiums so they can make money/affordable spam premum ammo.

 

 

And they are moving to full HD version 1 next year. This keeps this game well and truly valid.

 

Technically this game is excellent.and very appealing to any new player. WG need to do more to retain new players though if they want to grow though.

 

 

If you think the T69 and Lorraine 40t are the same then you haven’t been paying attention. Same for e25 vs LTs not exactly a shocker that an LT can circle a non turreted TD, that in no way proves they are better than the e25..


Edited by CardinalMite, 03 January 2018 - 02:24 PM.

“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

BrutalOlyx #16 Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:37 PM

    Corporal

  • Member
  • 23101 battles
  • 99
  • [BAMF] BAMF
  • Member since:
    06-05-2016

View PostEzz, on 03 January 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

 And brutal not really the point of the thread but I'm curious as to why you feel the defender isn't op yet it is your best performing 8 heavy.  As blue noted, by a fair margin to the is3.  In fact the only thing close is your Vk which is also regarded as being broken. It's similar to how your lorry drastically out performs your other 8 meds. Yet I have a hunch that you will say it isn't op either. 

 

If you read the second paragraph of the OP post, he directly refers to the Defender ( it is the point of the whole thread) and states that the tank is OP without ant supporting evidence.I then provided plenty of supporting evidence of why it is not OP, and how any t8 tank and up and pen it easily.  I am yet to come across one person who can explain exactly why the defender is OP outside 'Quickybaby said so" or something

 

The Lor40t is great tank that can perform even if bottom tier. It can carry and I mostly only play carry tanks now. Until such a time as they change the stupid +2 matchmaking the Lor40t is the only medium or heavy that I will play between tiers 5 -8, because they all suck with the +2 matchmaking including the Defender. 

 

 

This is not a salty post. Last couple of months I have had 54% winrate - average tier 7.5. Decent WN8, mostly tech tree tanks

 

I beg WG to please sell the Defender, so all the player base find out the hard way for themselves how overrated it is.

 

 

 

 



Ezz #17 Posted 03 January 2018 - 03:21 PM

    Major

  • Beta-Tester
  • 57552 battles
  • 33,650
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    07-17-2012
Except most stat sites suggests it's clearly op. In fact I've not seen anything at this point to suggest it's not. 

Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

>9000 cynicism brought to you by P2W, RIP Balance and the Cartoon Connection

Currently moderating your English speaking community : AALGMadibaCenturion_NZ, Elite911, Moonbase Patrol Copter 7

R. Pubbie: "why are all PBKAC players so rude, arrogant and nasty? and why do Mods favor them?"


CardinalMite #18 Posted 03 January 2018 - 03:29 PM

    First lieutenant

  • Member
  • 25009 battles
  • 579
  • Member since:
    04-18-2014

View PostBrutalOlyx, on 03 January 2018 - 06:37 AM, said:

 

If you read the second paragraph of the OP post, he directly refers to the Defender ( it is the point of the whole thread) and states that the tank is OP without ant supporting evidence.I then provided plenty of supporting evidence of why it is not OP, and how any t8 tank and up and pen it easily.  I am yet to come across one person who can explain exactly why the defender is OP outside 'Quickybaby said so" or something

 

The Lor40t is great tank that can perform even if bottom tier. It can carry and I mostly only play carry tanks now. Until such a time as they change the stupid +2 matchmaking the Lor40t is the only medium or heavy that I will play between tiers 5 -8, because they all suck with the +2 matchmaking including the Defender. 

 

 

This is not a salty post. Last couple of months I have had 54% winrate - average tier 7.5. Decent WN8, mostly tech tree tanks

 

I beg WG to please sell the Defender, so all the player base find out the hard way for themselves how overrated it is.

 

 

 

 

Your reasoning for the Defender not being OP is extremely suspect. You base it on clan wars, a mode most people do not play and which almost everyone loads almost nothing but gold. Frankly that is largely irrelevant when talking about random battles. Then you state no one has put forth any good reasons for it being OP, well you must have missed all the discussion of global win rate versus average player win rate, which clearly show for any given players average win rate they significantly exceed that when driving a Defender.

 

Then you talk about how strong the Lorraine 40t is and how you almost only play that. It is relevant in tier 10, I love playing it too, yes it is an OP tank also even if in not such an idiot proof way as a Defender. Try that in a T69 or hell even a T54e1.


“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

Nate_Revir #19 Posted 03 January 2018 - 09:27 PM

    Corporal

  • Member
  • 22776 battles
  • 41
  • [-ROE-] -ROE-
  • Member since:
    04-11-2015

View PostBrutalOlyx, on 02 January 2018 - 08:13 PM, said:

Cant work out how to embed pics on thsi forum, but have uploaded to show my point

 

 https://ibb.co/bJzFZw

https://ibb.co/cUreuw

https://ibb.co/c7UhEw

 

...

As many have said, CW is not a good example as everyone spams gold rounds. In normal battles, most of the time, people use their normal rounds and even if they decide to use premium shells, an angling defender can bounce a lot of shells.

For your pictures, the first one is not really correct, you are pointing from a high point and that's why you have around 220mm. If we consider the height of the IS-3, the armor even when facehugging  should be around 240 to 260mm.

Your second picture shows a "weak spot" which requires gold round to have enough penetration so it's not really a weak spot in my opinion. And you complaint about that auto-ricochet spot on the IS-3 but why do you have to shoot there, how about aiming at his front plate?

 



BrutalOlyx #20 Posted 05 January 2018 - 09:32 AM

    Corporal

  • Member
  • 23101 battles
  • 99
  • [BAMF] BAMF
  • Member since:
    06-05-2016

View PostNate_Revir, on 03 January 2018 - 09:27 PM, said:

As many have said, CW is not a good example as everyone spams gold rounds. In normal battles, most of the time, people use their normal rounds and even if they decide to use premium shells, an angling defender can bounce a lot of shells.

For your pictures, the first one is not really correct, you are pointing from a high point and that's why you have around 220mm. If we consider the height of the IS-3, the armor even when facehugging  should be around 240 to 260mm.

Your second picture shows a "weak spot" which requires gold round to have enough penetration so it's not really a weak spot in my opinion. And you complaint about that auto-ricochet spot on the IS-3 but why do you have to shoot there, how about aiming at his front plate?

 

 

 

I am showing the angle that an IS3 shoots a defender. If it is angled you go the upper plate, if straight on you go the lower plate, and you have 60-90 percent pen chance. We went to the training rooms a lot to practice penning the various tanks you come up against, and how to counter them. Facehugging, the Defender cannot pen the IS3 except the small little cupola. The IS3 however had the shot trap at the base of the turret, the turret cheeks, or the 2 largish cupolas of the defender. You have reload on the defender, and you also have speed manouverability and p/w  that the Defender cant escape the hug.

 

Franky people that consider the Defender OP are noobs IMO. The type that just use autolock and blame the tank as OP to make up for their own skill deficiencies. In this day and age of the Super Heavy and Heavily Armored TDs there is no point complaining about armor. WG said they want armor to be relevant again, so we need to suck it up, check out the 3d models and learn how to kill these tanks.

 

Anyway. study the 3d model of the Defender and kill the next one you see. It wont be driving it though because it gets too easily wrecked, and the gun sucks. And the DPM sucks, And its sluggish. And mostly sees t8-10 tanks that pen it like swiss cheese.

 

P.S CarninalMite. The E1 is a fantastic tank, I do over 2k damage per game in that thing






2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users