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Please limit 'premium' ammunition in PUB's

gold rounds yes this again

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CardinalMite #21 Posted 10 January 2018 - 02:55 PM

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View Postazmania3000, on 10 January 2018 - 06:36 AM, said:

 

This is true...

 

No one has said anything about Japan SHT premium HE yet :hiding: or Sprem arty splash

 

Ammunition for any situation !

 

​Yeah Type 5 premium is possibly the most unbalanced abomination of a round that never should have gone to live server.

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azmania3000 #22 Posted 10 January 2018 - 03:14 PM

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View PostCardinalMite, on 10 January 2018 - 04:55 PM, said:

 

​Yeah Type 5 premium is possibly the most unbalanced abomination of a round that never should have gone to live server.

 

They never gave it a pitch either........heat, apcr, hesh all have history at least

 

''Well the type 5 ammunition see........it does moar.......because......um............japan sourced their gunpowder from Mt Fiji and.......um Mt Fuji used to be a volcano see.......''



azmania3000 #23 Posted 10 January 2018 - 04:04 PM

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Ok I took the Alpine tiger out for a game;

 

 

I'll cut you a deal; reduce RNG and I'll stop firing Sprem from prem tanks :P

 

I did 330 dmg from +300m and missed 8 shots............hmmm, must have been the sou'easter blowing and I didn't deflect my gun vector accordingly :angry:


Edited by azmania3000, 10 January 2018 - 04:05 PM.


Wodka_Warrior #24 Posted 10 January 2018 - 05:35 PM

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View Postazmania3000, on 10 January 2018 - 08:04 AM, said:

Ok I took the Alpine tiger out for a game;

 

 

I'll cut you a deal; reduce RNG and I'll stop firing Sprem from prem tanks :P

 

I did 330 dmg from +300m and missed 8 shots............hmmm, must have been the sou'easter blowing and I didn't deflect my gun vector accordingly :angry:

 

Gold noob! 

 



Guderian_Alpha_001 #25 Posted 10 January 2018 - 06:10 PM

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Heck no !

 

I'd even go so far as PLEASE LOWER THE COST OF GOLD ROUNDS. 

 

Since WG will not be balancing obvious OP tanks, might as well give players a crutch in order to match up against OP tanks. 

 

I always use gold rounds in my first few shots and surprisingly my win streaks increased. 

 

Of course... luck.. luck.. luck. RNG and teamdraw. 



Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #26 Posted 10 January 2018 - 06:13 PM

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130mm HE, 100-200+ damage per shot.

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stewiejp #27 Posted 10 January 2018 - 06:28 PM

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View Posttlmitf, on 09 January 2018 - 10:34 PM, said:

I don't care how many times it has been said, we need to keep saying it until it gets done.

 

I suggest a poll to see if it is what the majority want rather than one player. A poll would be better than "we need to keep saying it until it gets done" - which I don't know but kinda sounds against the forum rules. 


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_Stowa_ #28 Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:43 AM

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I've been playing this game since a long time (maybe 2011 or so) but recently I have been more active, the problems with gold shells I can see are as follow:

 

1. It negates the advantage(s) of heavily armored tanks, you don't have to play around the Maus anymore, just load gold and shoot the turret cheeks, works even with perfect angling, if the Maus is over angling just a little bit then shoot the turret sides, gold shells make angling the Maus extremely hard, I used to be able to adjust the angle against multiple opponents (time their reload) - now I just don't care. You see the pattern of WG keep releasing stupidly good armored vehicles, they are encouraging the use of gold shells, so don't bother complaining.

 

2. It buys you the advantage(s) you shouldn't have, let's say you trade the accuracy for the rate of fire when you play Soviet MTs (I should note that this is only on paper, they have exellent effective accuracy) - means that you can not hit the weak spots reliably, but using the gold shells open a huge windows of penetratable, along with huge advantage of DPM and ROF. I have seen many many times a Soviet MT try to shoot my E50M turret only to be missed and pen the upperhull, granted not everytime but with normal shells you can forget about it ever happen.

 

3. It's pay to win, now I don't say this is a bad thing, winning is a good thing, but it's very frustrated when something that shouldn't have penned me reliably started to load gold shells and ended up winning the fight, I'd like gold armor too, if gold shells have 30% more pen can I have gold armor with 30% more effective (while retain mobility, gun handling... etc...) - I have this game recently in my E50M against one-shotable Obj. 907 and an FV183, the 907 is in hull down position and have shredded me down to a very dangerous level and I bounced 2 times on his turret already, FV183 is about to reloaded, I knew if I can't deal with the 907 in the next shot it's over, a HEAT shell taken care of him right away and I won the game, now that's pay to win, I paid to win the game.

 

Now some of you may say you don't have to pay real money for gold shells, sure, but I barely broken even playing tier 10 without gold shells (not 100% true, more like 1-2 shells every 10 games) - you need premium account and/or premium tanks to keep those shells flying, or you can grind lower tiers (which you pay with your time - same thing)

 

In my fast tanks, many many times I took the first shot of the game and it's already gold loaded, usually from good stats players, they already loaded the shell without knowing what they are going to shoot at, now is that pay to win? I tried to use 100% gold shells for a weeks few months ago and my WN8 became 2200 (normally it hang around 1600+) - now that's pay to win in my book.

 

The game has become very frustration for me in the last year or so, there are many reasons but overuse of gold shells is one of them. WG is milking WoT, it's not necessarily a bad thing, I'd do that if I were them. It's just make the "old" players like me feel like sh!t.

 

My yearly premium account just ended a few days ago and I don't know if I should renew, again, many reasons but this is one of them, too many ridiculously good armor tanks are releasing and I don't really want to be forced to use gold shells to be useful as I like to be in a game.


Edited by _Stowa_, 11 January 2018 - 09:20 AM.


azmania3000 #29 Posted 11 January 2018 - 05:37 AM

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View Post_Stowa_, on 11 January 2018 - 02:43 AM, said:

 

My yearly premium account just ended a few days ago and I don't know if I should renew, again, many reasons but this is one of them, too many ridiculously good armor tanks are releasing and I don't really want to be forced to use gold shells to be useful as I like to be in a game.

 

Maybe just chill for a few weeks and see if WerldofTonks 1.0 puts enough bacon on the table.

 

New physics engine on-board; so this may open the door to changes in model behaviour.

 

I suspect their current PotatoPhysics™ engine is one of those "simplified" models for soviet era mechanical computers.......Russian hamster overclocking is all the rage in Moscow I'm told.



tlmitf #30 Posted 11 January 2018 - 07:22 AM

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Premium rounds are meant to be used in a thoughtful manner. As it stands, the ability to fully load a tank with them negates this need to think.

IMHO there is already not enough thinking going on in this game, so anything we can do to promote the use of the brain is a good thing. I see some form of limitation on the use of the 2 key as a good thing.

I like the idea of limited damage from these rounds, but that is what HE rounds do.
If you drive a decent heavy tank, you'll see that people resort to premium and HE rounds - gold rounds can be bounced, but bouncing a HE round is basically impossible.

If you had limited premium rounds, people may resort to HE rounds again and remember just how useful these things were/are.

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+1 for distinction in the field of trolling.

http://forum.worldof...897#entry134897

Ezz #31 Posted 11 January 2018 - 08:55 AM

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View Posttlmitf, on 11 January 2018 - 09:22 AM, said:

IMHO there is already not enough thinking going on in this game, so anything we can do to promote the use of the brain is a good thing. I see some form of limitation on the use of the 2 key as a good thing.

Agreed. If they shifted away from the corridor maps then you wouldn't need as much sprem. People might even be able to flank things!

 

But sadly, WG have set the wheels in motion. They want a dumbed down paradise for the 'stupids' in their super heavies. Throw in some P2W prems to help people fuel their sprem requirements and voila, they're building a moonbase!


Edited by Ezz, 11 January 2018 - 09:48 AM.

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tlmitf #32 Posted 11 January 2018 - 09:48 AM

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View PostEzz, on 11 January 2018 - 10:25 AM, said:

Agreed. If they shifted away from the corridor maps then you wouldn't need as much sprem. People might even be able to flank things!

 

But sadly, WG have set the wheels in motion. They want a dumbed down paradise for the 'stupids' in their super heavies. Throw in some P2W prems to help people fuel their sprem requirements and voila, their building a moonbase!

 

Unfortunately this feels far too accurate.
I also play that other tanks game when I want a release from arcade hell, but this is my primary game.

I also understand what you are saying about the lack of room to maneuver, and because of this my medium tanks are sitting in the shed collecting dust.
I can only hope that WoT 1.0 brings some changes, or at the very least, breaths some life back into the game.

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Otakubouzu #33 Posted 11 January 2018 - 10:56 AM

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Just say any tinkering to premium rounds (except for the Type 5, that round can go to underworld for i care) without any major rework on balance and MM will be kinda detrimental for low tier.

Back to World of Tanks for now.


tlmitf #34 Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:46 AM

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View PostOtakubouzu, on 11 January 2018 - 12:26 PM, said:

Just say any tinkering to premium rounds (except for the Type 5, that round can go to underworld for i care) without any major rework on balance and MM will be kinda detrimental for low tier.

 

All tanks were balanced for AP, although I do not know how long ago that stopped - and I am just assuming that tanks are now balanced around premium rounds (looking at the defender)

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+1 for distinction in the field of trolling.

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OB_JUAN #35 Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:27 PM

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There are some clans especially that do nothing but Gold rounds and they are not shy about it as well. They just don't care (YETI). These are the players that spend money on large GOLD and credit bundles and WOT loves them and so it will never change.

Ezz #36 Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:33 PM

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View PostOB_JUAN, on 11 January 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

There are some clans especially that do nothing but Gold rounds and they are not shy about it as well. They just don't care (YETI). These are the players that spend money on large GOLD and credit bundles and WOT loves them and so it will never change.

 

Why would they care? If you have the credits, you may as well try to win.

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OB_JUAN #37 Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:58 PM

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View PostEzz, on 11 January 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

 

Why would they care? If you have the credits, you may as well try to win.

 

Yes but put yourself in a new players shoes for a minute. New players have only 1 thing on their minds and that is the grind. Using gold is not an option they take easily as it negates their grind. If grinding tanks is no longer a game option then why is this game here? Premium tanks no longer make the profits they used to make due to the requirement to shoot gold. The average new player is not making huge profits, anymore. Which is why these new lines (French heavies) are not getting played,  it just takes to long now.

 

We all know that AW wants them to convert XP to move forward, but the new players are not biting and so the new tanks are not getting traction. AW are cutting their own throats, I reckon and if it weren't for these new HD maps, they would be in trouble.



Ezz #38 Posted 11 January 2018 - 01:11 PM

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View PostOB_JUAN, on 11 January 2018 - 02:58 PM, said:

 

Yes but put yourself in a new players shoes for a minute. New players have only 1 thing on their minds and that is the grind. Using gold is not an option they take easily as it negates their grind. If grinding tanks is no longer a game option then why is this game here? Premium tanks no longer make the profits they used to make due to the requirement to shoot gold. The average new player is not making huge profits, anymore. Which is why these new lines (French heavies) are not getting played,  it just takes to long now.

 

We all know that AW wants them to convert XP to move forward, but the new players are not biting and so the new tanks are not getting traction. AW are cutting their own throats, I reckon and if it weren't for these new HD maps, they would be in trouble.

 

Not denying the credit pinch can be a [edited]. But that's one of the core elements for WG's business model. As was noted earlier, it's a major incentive for the various premium account / tanks. Whether people firing pure gold is good for the game or not is a separate matter. WG probably love it. But again it's this 'requirement' to shoot gold to stay competitive that irks me. Again tho, this is clearly the direction WG want to take, so i can't see them altering it any time soon.

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CardinalMite #39 Posted 11 January 2018 - 03:38 PM

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To be fair while no doubt someone shoots full gold all the time I feel they are actually quite rare. Even with premium time you will lose credits hand over fist doing that. The problem is more that:

 

A) certain tanks have such poor normal AP pen that you are pretty much forced into using all premium ammo load outs. 

 

B) certain tanks have so overbuffed armour that everyone has to use premium ammo against these. 

 

C) certain tanks have bull crap premium HE that they negate all skill in both using them and almost any skill in avoiding them. 

 

D) that all of the above makes balancing a multi tier matchup system near impossible.


Edited by CardinalMite, 11 January 2018 - 03:39 PM.

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tlmitf #40 Posted 11 January 2018 - 03:43 PM

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Before premium rounds were available for credits, and before there was such a tight restriction on tiers in the matchmaker - people used HE rounds to put down oversized targets.
Sure, some guns are better than others at this - mostly the Russian 122mm guns, and other derpy derps - but the option has always been there, the problem is that there is no incentive to USE the HE rounds.

If gold rounds were to be restricted or rebalanced, then the problem (perceived or otherwise) would be diminished.

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