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If Clam Wars is Dead - How about this idea?

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stewiejp #1 Posted 12 March 2018 - 05:49 AM

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As mentioned in the  Soooo.. Tier X clan wars officially dead yet? thread...

 

Sorry for the length (said the sailor to the girl) - there's a bit in there. The only issue I can see is whether or not the dev's are willing to program it. I reckon it *should* create a lot of CW activity IF that's what we want...

 

 

Clan Wars Next Season

 

Disclaimer: I speak for myself and do not speak for my clan or any other. Just a few ideas which may help stimulate activity within Clan Wars – especially at Tier 10. From a long term fan of the game.

Current issues:

1. Inactivity on the tier 10 map, especially the early time zones and Australian server. E.g. 4 battles at tier ten throughout the whole AU server on each night March 8 through 10. (Maybe longer and/or later I do not have that data).

2. Clans unwilling or unable to attack established/higher eLO rated clans causing “farming” of gold with little or no battles.

3. Massive risk the map will shrink again next season.

 

***I do not blame the “Top Clans” for the current situation. They have played by the rules, are dominating the map and I hope they are being rewarded with gold, victory points and whatever else gets handed out nowadays.***

As far as I know WG has always stated that the less activity we see in Clan Wars, the more the map will shrink, and the less gold or other rewards will become available. Unless I am mistaken, this season’s stagnated map will result in even less rewards and a smaller map next season – so instead of simply shaking my head and giving up, I’ve come up with a proposal.

 

The ideas below aim to stimulate battles for every clan who wants to have a crack at Clan Wars. In short – rewards would be paid out on battles rather than holding land.

 

Aim: Create some activity for Tier 10 Clan Wars.

 

“The stewie directive” (that one just came to me).

  • Three Divisions – let’s call them Purple, Blue and Green.
  • Clans nominate which Division to start in – Blue or Green.
  • Green: Tier 8 only – 10v10.
  • Blue: Tier 10 only – with the option of being 10v10 or whatever format WGL ends up as – this could help promote the WGL as well as create more battles due to less players per team.
  • Purple: Top 10 to 20% of Blue Division get promoted to Purple weekly, bottom 10-20% of Purple go down to Blue. Tier 10 same battle formation as Blue with the option of WGL style Attack/Defence set up (best of 3, 5, 7 or 1 hour limit).
  • Clan nominates 60+ minutes in advance how many battles they want per hour/half hour.
  • Random MM however *on average* every clan will see the same number of eLO rated clans over time as best the MM can handle it. If this round you see a 1400 eLO, then more chance of a sub 1000 eLO next round and vice versa. Clans with more than one team in the round cannot see each other. This is NOT skill based MM, but over time your clan should come across the Good, the Bad and the Ugly for lack of a better analogy.
  • Rewards paid out directly after the battle or round – either to individual players or to the Clan Treasury or both. Random chance of higher rewards (displayed at the battle count down), and rewards paid on performance (of the team) compared to the eLO of the enemy. High eLO (enemy) = Higher rewards + Random Chance of even higher rewards. For individual Rewards every player in the team gets the same. Possibility of some smaller reward even if you lose.
  • Green League Rewards: Credits with the random chance of even more credits, strongholds boosters (credits xp etc) and/or industrial resources.
  • Blue League Rewards: Bonds (= or slightly higher than normal Tier 10 Battles), Stronghold Boosters, Industrial Resources and the Random Chance of small amounts of Gold.
  • Purple Division Rewards: Larger amounts of gold with the random chance of bonds.

 

Thoughts

The higher the division the better the rewards – this will encourage clans to go for Tier 10 and Purple League, whist still rewarding those at Tier 8 with credits/boosters etc while “training” for clan wars or farming credits.

The majority of the gold to the Purple League so the better clans can still get a decent payout though they will have to play more battles.

The details of the reward system subject to opinion/change but the idea being to encourage players to go for Tier 10 as well as create an active clan wars environment.

Introducing Bonds to Clan Wars seems a natural next step as WG have already introduced CW Reward Tanks costing bonds.

WGL style format could create an opportunity to promote WGL alongside Clan Wars.

 

 

.... hope this makes sense

 


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spacewolf #2 Posted 12 March 2018 - 05:57 AM

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I'm not hating the idea, but give me a while to process what you've got.

 

On paper it's more than viable. Well thought out, have a +1.



Normy001 #3 Posted 12 March 2018 - 08:05 AM

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I like the idea of having separate divisions for sure - and it would certainly help the issues we have at the moment. People blaming large clans for winning (which is literally what clans are meant to do) is silly and shows more can be done to fix it. It should be recognised larger clans are playing not for the gold or rewards, but for the enjoyment of winning, and having different levels to separate the different leagues of players/clans could massively change the CW landscape. I think it's important to have an active tier eight map to learn on and get some experience in, and I agree with the tiered rewards as well, although I can see larger clans suffering with tank locking and going down to seal-club the newer clans on eights. I'm not sure how such a large change would be implemented, but I'd like to see it tried. +1

DarthCavalier #4 Posted 12 March 2018 - 10:21 AM

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One change I would be in favour of is, if Tier 10 CW stays as 15v15, then make Tier 8 also 15v15.  Players are already used to that size battle from Random Pubbies, and I believe it would open up more flexible strategies as well as giving newer callers a taste of how to manage the larger battles that will come when a clan steps up from 8s to 10s.

 

Otherwise, this seems like a well thought out solution to what appears to be a growing issue for the future of end-game content (CW) on this server.

 



spacewolf #5 Posted 12 March 2018 - 10:31 AM

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View PostDarthCavalier, on 12 March 2018 - 12:21 PM, said:

One change I would be in favour of is, if Tier 10 CW stays as 15v15, then make Tier 8 also 15v15.  Players are already used to that size battle from Random Pubbies, and I believe it would open up more flexible strategies as well as giving newer callers a taste of how to manage the larger battles that will come when a clan steps up from 8s to 10s.

 

Otherwise, this seems like a well thought out solution to what appears to be a growing issue for the future of end-game content (CW) on this server.

 

 

The idea of tier 8 being 10(?) is to facilitate budding callers. It's a lot easier to manage 10 players at once than 15. You might increase it to 15v15 once the clan as a whole gains in ability.

 

The more I think about stewie's idea above the more I think it would work reasonably well.



Napalmer #6 Posted 12 March 2018 - 10:52 AM

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The only worry I have is that it will dilute the players over too many fronts.

Other than that, #GetOnBoard.


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spacewolf #7 Posted 12 March 2018 - 10:57 AM

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View PostNapalmer, on 12 March 2018 - 12:52 PM, said:

The only worry I have is that it will dilute the players over too many fronts.

Other than that, #GetOnBoard.

 

I think you're right, at least for the initial stages of implementation. As usual, the early adapters would find it a little quiet, but as the bulk of the population catch on numbers would increase.

 

 



Graphicnd #8 Posted 12 March 2018 - 11:08 AM

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Go back to the old map and 1 chip per player active player. You lose you lose the stack for 24 hours. Make the map bigger and then you cant have stacks on more than 6 bits of dirt. No stack it riots and you cant move a stack to defend it. Put the LZ's on the coast again and make them open maps you cant turtle in. It worked I don't know why it got changed. 15 v 15 and get rid of 8's maybe or have LZ's 10 v 10 and make it that 9's can be used. But Stew good start but I think we need everyone on the same map. Have the high gold inland so clans cant hold LZ's and reach the gold with only 6 stacks. 

JOC469 #9 Posted 12 March 2018 - 02:01 PM

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We need to be honest with ourselves and when considering any proposals ask the question “would this work on the RU servers?” If it would then there is a chance the devs resources could be used. If it wouldn’t, then it won’t progress.

 

@StewieJP some of the maths doesn’t quite work / assumes that numbers in each division are the same. 

 

It won’t eliminate lesser clans sense of entitlement and there will still be complaints that they can’t get gold/tanks/rewards.

 

WG seem to be on the right track by limiting the number of gold earning provinces a clan can earn from. A clan can still hold 15 provinces but will only earn gold income from 5. The next step from this would be to have the game mechanics limit the effective number of provinces a clan can effectively hold via riots, upkeep, etc. The more provinces a clan holds then the greater upkeep required to hold them and the higher frequency of riots. A clan can only fight so many concurrent battles.

 

There is a limited “budget” for CW for the server, so a larger map will result in a likely decrease of gold earning per province.


 

View PostSir_British, on 11 February 2016 - 11:24 PM, said:

joc469, the great purporter of  'name-changer' and 'clan-leaver' all hail the JOC469!


stewiejp #10 Posted 12 March 2018 - 02:52 PM

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Appreciate the feedback folks. My aim is not to help smaller clans nor dethrone the big ones - my aim is simply to get more battles happening, as the common suggestion of "make the map bigger" and "increase gold earnings" are not an option as far as I know (regardless of how many players suggest it). The less battles that occur, the smaller the rewards it really is as simple as that, and as far as I can see - there aren't a lot of battles happening.

 

Agree 100% the biggest issue could be the programming. If the current (map) format is working in Russia they have no need to change. We, however - do. Whether or not the resources required to program the idea into the game at a local level is worth it or not is another matter. It probably isn't from their "resources required vs reward" point of view. IIRC dev's were discussing scrapping CW for our server entirely a year or two ago due to inactivity - maybe the horse has already bolted in that regard and I am wasting my time.

 

Regarding the map and fronts. Under the above idea there would be no need for a map, it would simply be a leader-board deciding who the top clan is. It would start as two groups - tens and eights, and no, they would not need to be equal in size. Only the top ranked tier 10 clans would be fighting it out in the "Purple Group", which could mean only a couple of clans in some time slots and the three tiers of rewards would differ significantly as described above or in some other way. WG for some time has also been discussing the option of alternate rewards for clan wars (credits, bonds, boosters etc) or at least talking about that idea. I mean 48 gold per day equates to not a lot per player - so why not scrap those rewards and explore other rewards. 

 

 


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Mobius99 #11 Posted 12 March 2018 - 06:08 PM

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Hi Stewie,

 

Thanks for the good thinking.

I will quickly update you guys something here:
1. Much bigger map - yes, we got green light from HQ (thanks to you all), so we should see it happen very soon.
2. More gold - currently "No", but we are trying to get the budget to certain reasonable amount.

3. And for your idea, it's more like an improved version of Stronghold. Based on our long term project, we are heading to that direction, but unfortunately, we will need to wait for more time and resource for the development of this part.

But keep the ideas coming, we are all open to positive thinking & discussion. 

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Atom_HieuDZ #12 Posted 12 March 2018 - 10:08 PM

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Low income on global map, high ping, no reward worth the effort are things that make me not interested in cw. I just played cw with my clanmate to reminisce a little old sense, not to earn gold . Tournament can give me more golds than cw. I recognize the tournament and stronghold are more attractive than cw now.

Edited by Atom_HieuDZ, 12 March 2018 - 10:10 PM.


Rainbow_The_Artistic #13 Posted 12 March 2018 - 10:12 PM

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View PostAtom_HieuDZ, on 12 March 2018 - 10:08 PM, said:

 high ping,

 


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BrutalOlyx #14 Posted 12 March 2018 - 10:29 PM

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Tier 8 and tier 10 should not be competing as the active player base is not large enough. The need to run seperate seasons IMO

 

And they should not limit themselves to a 10vs10 format. Sometimes small clans only have 7 players available to play, sometimes many more. Different sized maps so you can have 7vs7, 10vs10, 15vs15 even 20vs20. The bigger the map the more rewards.

 

I can buy my own gold. Camo is worth about 30 cents AUD.

 

Give me bonds, directives, improved equipment, and maybe I might feel inclined to stay up late to compete.

 

I like the idea of instant rewards given after a battle

 

 

 



BetterThanjEbUs #15 Posted 13 March 2018 - 04:23 AM

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I like your ideas Stewie & its interesting to hear that there will be more change Mobius, but I fear the end is beyond nigh already.

 

A simple way to implement an approximation of Stewie's ideas is to basically get rid of CW global map & just make Advances available 7 days a week at both tiers 10 & 8!



stewiejp #16 Posted 13 March 2018 - 05:38 AM

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Thanks for the info Max, appreciate it - I agree my idea looks more like Strongholds than CW - what got the idea in my head was a format we had 2 or 3 years ago I think it was called Ranked Team Battles. Unfortunately it never got off the ground but I couldn't get enough of it. Rewards were very different as well. 

I don't want to sound like I am screaming for more gold (I am not) but more land + same reward on a bigger map will equal less gold per province? Maybe explore the idea of making some provinces reward something other than gold should we stick with the idea of a "Map".

 

Block Quote

 A simple way to implement an approximation of Stewie's ideas is to basically get rid of CW global map & just make Advances available 7 days a week at both tiers 10 & 8!

 

BetterThan - I'd guess that will be / may be an option if the CW map dies or is phased out. I enjoy Advances more than CW to be honest. The uncertainty of who the opponent will be, what the 1st map will be and the ability to jump straight into the next battle if both clans are ready is a lot more efficient that waiting 15 min when you already know what the plan is. 2 CW battles in an hour vs 5 (or is it 6?) Advances. 


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southerner #17 Posted 13 March 2018 - 07:09 AM

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Last i looked at the asian CW map, it is dominated by 4 top clans. I like the idea of 3 tiers of experience and win rate. The top clans play top clans, good clans play other good clans, average clans play other average clans makes for FAIR PLAY. As is is now the lower rated clans have given up because they know its like a boxing match where grandpa goes up against Anthony Joshua the current WBA super champion. Result ; no contest. So is it any wonder the average clans have just given up ?
 

Edited by southerner, 13 March 2018 - 07:10 AM.

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CelestiaLudenberg #18 Posted 13 March 2018 - 09:01 AM

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One thing I think needs a bit of work is how tier 8 CW is limited to the 5 province income cap, when they already make ~15% of what tier 10 CW do.

I personally am not doing CW for gold, I'm just doing it as it gives me something to do, but for those that are, it does seem a bit unfair capping the tier 8 CW to a max of less than 500/day when a single tier 10 province makes that. If for tier 8 it were increased to say, 10, then the gold distribution would feel a lot better and make it worth people time if that's what they're in it for.

 

If it were up to me I would definitely go to tier 10 CW if gold was a bigger incentive for me, but at the same time due to the map being the size it is, we would only be attacking CROWN which is pointless in both that we would not beat them unless we got very lucky, as well as the fact that we have no reason to fight them and would just be wasting their time, being sister clans and such.

 

Chokepoint provinces are also an issue, making it hard to expand.

 

I believe we did bring this up with Conan and he said he'd bring it forth to you Mobius.


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cplripley #19 Posted 13 March 2018 - 11:34 AM

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View PostBetterThanjEbUs, on 13 March 2018 - 04:23 AM, said:

I like your ideas Stewie & its interesting to hear that there will be more change Mobius, but I fear the end is beyond nigh already.

 

A simple way to implement an approximation of Stewie's ideas is to basically get rid of CW global map & just make Advances available 7 days a week at both tiers 10 & 8!

 

Would love to see nightly Advances,  make 8s 8 v 8, have a step system from a new 6 v 6 at t6 stronks,   get more small clans into the mix so we can stop facing  top 30 clans every weekend 
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tekno #20 Posted 13 March 2018 - 01:51 PM

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View PostDefendingTheFatherland, on 13 March 2018 - 01:01 AM, said:

One thing I think needs a bit of work is how tier 8 CW is limited to the 5 province income cap, when they already make ~15% of what tier 10 CW do.

I personally am not doing CW for gold, I'm just doing it as it gives me something to do, but for those that are, it does seem a bit unfair capping the tier 8 CW to a max of less than 500/day when a single tier 10 province makes that. If for tier 8 it were increased to say, 10, then the gold distribution would feel a lot better and make it worth people time if that's what they're in it for.

 

If it were up to me I would definitely go to tier 10 CW if gold was a bigger incentive for me, but at the same time due to the map being the size it is, we would only be attacking CROWN which is pointless in both that we would not beat them unless we got very lucky, as well as the fact that we have no reason to fight them and would just be wasting their time, being sister clans and such.

 

Chokepoint provinces are also an issue, making it hard to expand.

 

I believe we did bring this up with Conan and he said he'd bring it forth to you Mobius.

 

^this wins "the most self serving post I've seen in a long while" award...

If you want more gold roll with the big dogs, not seal clubbing in tier8s.

Buffing the earning potential of a clan on the tier8 map to anything like comparable to tens is a horrible idea and demeans tier  ten CW. 






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