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Ultimate Fix for MM proposal

MM trackpad warriors bots WG can still be happy

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absorbbone #1 Posted 23 March 2018 - 12:15 PM

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We all know the 3/5/7 MM is BS but this fix is for a separate issue

Even worse are the bots in the game. My proposal is to have a dedicated MM for <46.5% WR players/bots. 

Block Quote

Premise 1: Accounts in this range most likely use bots
Premise 2: If a player sadly belongs to this range (track pad warriors) they would fare better than the bots

Premise 3: WG would not outright ban these accounts cause most of them purchase gold/premium tanks

Premise 4: Following the previous statement, WG cares more about profits then loyal player satisfaction (although who doesn't?)

​Premise 5: Bots are equivalently complex 

Having those with <46.5% WR playing against each other removes a majority of bots exposure from the larger community. However there are some implications:

  1. Normal players are pit against better players now, in general, causing a general downward shift of WR across the entire player base
  2. Those in this proposed <46.5% MM would have an increase in WR
  3. New players...

To answer implication 1, there are 2 objections. Should MM match teams evenly, the WR of the players should not change much. Second, even if they were shifted to the new MM, Premise 2 should hold true and thus be able to return to normal MM.

To answer the next implication, if given the fifth premise, their WR should reach closer to 50% due to normal distribution if they are randomly assigned teams among themselves. However, this can be countered by assigning 15 of them as a team against normal players should they have a continual streak of bad performances. Additionally, WG could take all their mistakes of OP premium tanks against this new team formation to reduce exposure to cancerous and difficult situation of normal players facing against them. This would also make these gold miners happy, since they can farm their credits easily making an incentive for players to buy and play their premium tanks more.

For the last implication, there could be a hold off waiting time for the WR, maybe only after 2000 games and taking the latest 200 games for WR measurement.

 

This implementation does not even have to be absolute, maybe this tier of MM can be once in 3 games per player, where the MM runs these proposals through the player 33% of the time, greatly improving playability and maintaining their love for selling OP premium tanks for both players and bots.

 


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Zynth #2 Posted 23 March 2018 - 12:18 PM

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I still say we have MM based on distance travelled.

 

Bots, campers and artillery get shoved into shitty campfests together.

All the active, mobile players get grouped together for fun and exciting dynamic gameplay free from artillery.


 

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struth #3 Posted 23 March 2018 - 03:04 PM

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Distance travelled is the best metric, I have been saying that for years now.

s70blackhawk #4 Posted 23 March 2018 - 03:09 PM

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View PostZynth, on 23 March 2018 - 02:18 PM, said:

I still say we have MM based on distance travelled.

 

Bots, campers and artillery get shoved into shitty campfests together.

All the active, mobile players get grouped together for fun and exciting dynamic gameplay free from artillery.

 

Perhaps if a player doesn't move from one bush camping for more than say 2-3 minutes, a trap door opens and the tank falls into another map underworld with other camping noobs? They then get stuck in the depths of camper hell until they learn not to red line chai snipe in their KV-2...
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CardinalMite #5 Posted 23 March 2018 - 03:36 PM

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View Postabsorbbone, on 23 March 2018 - 04:15 AM, said:

We all know the 3/5/7 MM is BS but this fix is for a separate issue

Even worse are the bots in the game. My proposal is to have a dedicated MM for <46.5% WR players/bots. 

Having those with <46.5% WR playing against each other removes a majority of bots exposure from the larger community. However there are some implications:

  1. Normal players are pit against better players now, in general, causing a general downward shift of WR across the entire player base
  2. Those in this proposed <46.5% MM would have an increase in WR
  3. New players...

To answer implication 1, there are 2 objections. Should MM match teams evenly, the WR of the players should not change much. Second, even if they were shifted to the new MM, Premise 2 should hold true and thus be able to return to normal MM.

To answer the next implication, if given the fifth premise, their WR should reach closer to 50% due to normal distribution if they are randomly assigned teams among themselves. However, this can be countered by assigning 15 of them as a team against normal players should they have a continual streak of bad performances. Additionally, WG could take all their mistakes of OP premium tanks against this new team formation to reduce exposure to cancerous and difficult situation of normal players facing against them. This would also make these gold miners happy, since they can farm their credits easily making an incentive for players to buy and play their premium tanks more.

For the last implication, there could be a hold off waiting time for the WR, maybe only after 2000 games and taking the latest 200 games for WR measurement.

 

This implementation does not even have to be absolute, maybe this tier of MM can be once in 3 games per player, where the MM runs these proposals through the player 33% of the time, greatly improving playability and maintaining their love for selling OP premium tanks for both players and bots.

 

Why?

 

Sure everyone hates it when they get a bot on their team. Everyone hates it when they have an AFK player, arguably worse than a bot.

 

Everyone hates it when they can't get a match at a particular tier. Either solo or more commonly in platoons.

 

You are just further splitting the pool of ready to play players which makes getting evenly balanced matchmaking even harder..

 

You are utterly shafting less experienced players by consigning them to getting ALL the bots.

 

Your proposed mitigations will just further complicate the matchmaker and make it slower.

 

It is just a form of SBMM which is inherently bad for reasons that have been flogged to death time and time again.

 

While I applaud all players that strive to improve that does not make poor players automatically bad people or deliberately not trying their best or deserving of having a lesser service in the game.

 

Bots are annoying for sure but they are not even the 4th worst thing about the matchmaker. Thanks for trying to come up with a solution to your perceived number 1 problem with MM, however this solution would likely be worse than the thing it is trying to fix.


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Goodie999 #6 Posted 23 March 2018 - 04:53 PM

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Premise 1: Accounts in this range most likely use bots - NOPE
Premise 2: If a player sadly belongs to this range (track pad warriors) they would fare better than the bots - NOPE

Premise 3: WG would not outright ban these accounts cause most of them purchase gold/premium tanks - YEP

Premise 4: Following the previous statement, WG cares more about profits then loyal player satisfaction (although who doesn't?) - YEP(YEP YEP YEP in the voice of that sesame-street-word-joining-guy)

​Premise 5: Bots are equivalently complex - NFI

 

 

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...

 

MagicalFlyingFox #7 Posted 23 March 2018 - 05:13 PM

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the bot problem is way overblown, like the illegal mod problem...

 

 


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 A. Guy on 02 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

Destroyer of Tier 6 CW... says it all about you.


_A_M_G_ #8 Posted 23 March 2018 - 05:37 PM

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Change the preference order to 5/10, 15 then 3/5/7. Problem solved.

 


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neokai #9 Posted 23 March 2018 - 07:04 PM

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Moved to a more appropriate sub-forum.

 

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Wodka_Warrior #10 Posted 23 March 2018 - 07:51 PM

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Tree's down best metric  :deer:

NameWasStolenStresslevel #11 Posted 24 March 2018 - 09:28 AM

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i am fully against separating noobs from the normal players, 1st because we already have ranked battles, 2nd because we all have been through that, why need to change it now? 3rd because if we separate bad players from the rest, how are the bad players gonna improve in the game playing only against people that he dont have much to learn from? Sure once his WR improve he will be automatically placed to play against normal players, but then his WR will drop again, and he will be placed back to his "confort zone" MM that keeps placing him to play against people who will not teach him any good.

 

I agree though, that new players should have a longer tutorial mode or have the option to play againts bots for longer time. 

 

in a separate note, WG should release a story mode with offline campaign, they would be another way to prepare people for RANDOM battles, which by its definition itself (RANDOM) should be random as it always was. Just my opinion tho.


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Mother_Of_All_Rommel #12 Posted 24 March 2018 - 11:24 AM

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Just make pve, put the bots there. They wont bother competitive pvp player anymore, not every1 play to be tank gods, just saying. So the arguement they wont improve against bots are stupid. Lots of pvp game works even with pve in it, so AW rare case should not be the only evidence of how pve would done a game.

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NameWasStolenStresslevel #13 Posted 24 March 2018 - 02:24 PM

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MM should not restrict people by skill, people should just get better, learn. Bots are not better than humans. Bad players will not teach you how to get better in the game. Keeping a player playing against people of his same skill will only make things worst, if he manage to get a better win ratio and then be put out of the "bad player MM" then after about 10 games in the "normal players MM" he will be back to that list (46%er) list, of course this number of battle is arguable. But it will happen.

Edited by NameWasStolenStresslevel, 24 March 2018 - 02:42 PM.

Having META problems?

 #Hashtag break the META

     (HAHAGHa i must have drank somethin)

             https://worldoftanks.asia/en/hall-of-fame/vehicles/A100_T49/#wot&w_ts=overall&w_nb=500

         Currently Hall of Fame T49's number 1 in WTR!!! (parameters are *battles +500* and *since 2014's* ranking)


NameWasStolenStresslevel #14 Posted 24 March 2018 - 02:38 PM

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View PostMother_Of_All_Rommel, on 24 March 2018 - 12:24 PM, said:

Just make pve, put the bots there. They wont bother competitive pvp player anymore, not every1 play to be tank gods, just saying. So the arguement they wont improve against bots are stupid. Lots of pvp game works even with pve in it, so AW rare case should not be the only evidence of how pve would done a game.

 

No one said that u cant improve playing against bots, where did u see that? I said there will be a cap when playing against people of his same skill level (46%er), a limit where the player will have to play against better players in order to improve instead of sitting around and playing against people with the same level of skill he have...

 

Also if u think bots pose any challenge enough to be comparable to real humans, then i would like to see these (competitive human level) bots around any time for me to play too, coz they simply dont exist, dont invent things out of your mind.... PVP is PVP, for normal players, PVE is for bad players, they may improve a little as i said in my comment above, but thats not gonna be enough to be fighting real humans, they will have to return to PvE and stay there forever using the system that the op suggested and u seem to approve. You admit that in your very own comment and at the same time said that "the argument that playing against bots wont improve is stupid".

 

Your comment is contradictory. If they will improve like u are trying to suggest, then why would they "no bother playing competitive pvp again? your comment made little sense to me, you are either saying that bots are better than humans, or you are admiting that if a player is bad he should stay away from competitve human level play. Unless u are not talking to me of course, then it would make a little bit more sense.


Having META problems?

 #Hashtag break the META

     (HAHAGHa i must have drank somethin)

             https://worldoftanks.asia/en/hall-of-fame/vehicles/A100_T49/#wot&w_ts=overall&w_nb=500

         Currently Hall of Fame T49's number 1 in WTR!!! (parameters are *battles +500* and *since 2014's* ranking)


Mother_Of_All_Rommel #15 Posted 24 March 2018 - 02:42 PM

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My points on "stupid arguement" not because they cant or can improve. Its because they dont really have to, especially casul.

Edited by Mother_Of_All_Rommel, 24 March 2018 - 02:44 PM.

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NameWasStolenStresslevel #16 Posted 24 March 2018 - 02:45 PM

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??? your comment seem incomplete

Having META problems?

 #Hashtag break the META

     (HAHAGHa i must have drank somethin)

             https://worldoftanks.asia/en/hall-of-fame/vehicles/A100_T49/#wot&w_ts=overall&w_nb=500

         Currently Hall of Fame T49's number 1 in WTR!!! (parameters are *battles +500* and *since 2014's* ranking)


NameWasStolenStresslevel #17 Posted 24 March 2018 - 02:50 PM

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if you are going to say that casual players dont really have to improve, then you are kinda off topic here, we are talking about players who cares about stats, otherwise they wouldnt be asking for dedicated MM, if they are asking for dedicated MM then they definitly care about their game experiences more than any casual player. For casual players any bot system would do the thing, but dont expect it to improve anyone skill.

 

Thats the fact here!

 

 whether they want to improve or not is not the point of my "stupid comment", the point is that bots are not going to be enough to prepare anyone to play a competitive or (as you put) "non casual" level gameplay.

 

I was talking about the op system that want to discriminate player by win ratio, i am not talking about casual players wanting to have a pve mode fun mode. Thats a different topic dude. And i even suggested campaign and bot mode especially for these casual players. Now normal players will have to go through the competition like everyone else did in order to improve. 


Edited by NameWasStolenStresslevel, 24 March 2018 - 02:56 PM.

Having META problems?

 #Hashtag break the META

     (HAHAGHa i must have drank somethin)

             https://worldoftanks.asia/en/hall-of-fame/vehicles/A100_T49/#wot&w_ts=overall&w_nb=500

         Currently Hall of Fame T49's number 1 in WTR!!! (parameters are *battles +500* and *since 2014's* ranking)


Mother_Of_All_Rommel #18 Posted 24 March 2018 - 02:56 PM

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oh, different topic then. But pve would be very nice for competitive plyrs too since its drag out casul from pvp. 

Edited by Mother_Of_All_Rommel, 24 March 2018 - 02:58 PM.

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NameWasStolenStresslevel #19 Posted 24 March 2018 - 03:07 PM

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the op proposal about the MM sounds romantically good on the paper, but in reality if WG implement that, there will be a major problem with the MM as a whole, with queue times taking minutes to create a match, restrictions on win ratio as a parameter to create a game will only make MM slower and more complicated, so its not really a MM "improvement". Tier 10 matches will be virtually hard to get in, tier 5 matches then (where most players are 46%ers) will probably not be possible to create in 2 minutes... So its bad in everyway possible to restrict MM, both on the techinical field as well on the "playerbase skill level" field. It will deteriorate things

Having META problems?

 #Hashtag break the META

     (HAHAGHa i must have drank somethin)

             https://worldoftanks.asia/en/hall-of-fame/vehicles/A100_T49/#wot&w_ts=overall&w_nb=500

         Currently Hall of Fame T49's number 1 in WTR!!! (parameters are *battles +500* and *since 2014's* ranking)


southerner #20 Posted 24 March 2018 - 03:26 PM

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View Poststruth, on 23 March 2018 - 07:04 PM, said:

Distance travelled is the best metric, I have been saying that for years now.

 

You mean you play lotsa lights ?

 


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