278 replies to this topic

[Mystblade]

While I’m not a fan of arty and think they need a nerf. They aren’t that bad. 

There are things you can do to mitigate focus just by making yourself a hard target or trying to stay inspected. 

 

And moving once you are spotted. Sure there are some good arty players that will still probably hit you. 

You can all equip spall lining. Although it’s non meta though if you are worried about arty then that’s an option. 

[MagicalFlyingFox]

With the arty splash radius now and stun, moving won't help.

[Profanisaurus]

It's weird.  On here people scream for Arty to be removed from the game but on the ANZ Facebook if someone posts a picture of themselves removing arty from a game they get all uppity about it.

Edited by Profanisaurus, 29 March 2018 - 07:09 AM.

[Inglorious_Aussie_Tanker]

People use the Forum Search function and then select ANY of the 40,000 SPG threads and take a read.  They are almost all the same and feature ALL the SAME arguments and sugestions to improve or remove them.  

[imma_rage_quit]

WG will never remove arty, i mean, think about it carefully, it's the only class you can play single handedly while watching "educational" short movie clips on another screen.

remove arty and 37.8733% of pubbeh's will never hit the battle button

and as with other things in life, the splash radius is only as big as the fun

Edited by Bash_sh, 29 March 2018 - 07:44 AM.

[U12D13]

Inglorious_Aussie_Tanker, on 29 March 2018 - 07:29 AM, said:

People use the Forum Search function and then select ANY of the 40,000 SPG threads and take a read.  They are almost all the same and feature ALL the SAME arguments and sugestions to improve or remove them.  

 

I bet you that in that 40,000 threads no one has suggested my idea - damage/stun scales with shell flight time. 

[mttspiii]

U12D13, on 29 March 2018 - 09:16 AM, said:

 

I bet you that in that 40,000 threads no one has suggested my idea - damage/stun scales with shell flight time. 

 

Like Impetus in [REDACTED]

[Inglorious_Aussie_Tanker]

U12D13, on 29 March 2018 - 11:16 AM, said:

 

I bet you that in that 40,000 threads no one has suggested my idea - damage/stun scales with shell flight time. 

 

You're right but I think we'd want it the other way around right?  Sky Toilets fire from Long Distance anyway, so MAX stun would still be in effect.  We'd want MAXIMUM stun to be from point blank, so even though you are Blind Drunk stunned you could still return fire and HE their open crew compartments for "One Shot" glory.  

[U12D13]

Inglorious_Aussie_Tanker, on 29 March 2018 - 10:08 AM, said:

 

You're right but I think we'd want it the other way around right?  Sky Toilets fire from Long Distance anyway, so MAX stun would still be in effect.  We'd want MAXIMUM stun to be from point blank, so even though you are Blind Drunk stunned you could still return fire and HE their open crew compartments for "One Shot" glory.  

 

Nah. Arty max stun at long distance to cripple the campers. And make them less effective against people that actually "camp the middle of the map", aka the folks that know how to use their W key and play the game. 

[Puggsley]

The arty threat is way overblown.

 

Have a look at Pro's games in the following post.

 

http://forum.worldoftanks.asia/index.php?/topic/79527-prolosers-badly-commentated-antics/

 

WZ111-5A game on Westfield - 2 arty goes to extremely aggressive location with hardly any arty cover and repeatedly pokes to shoot enemy every time gun is loaded. Prime target for XVM sniping arty and takes 1 hit for 172hp. 

140 game on Fiery Salient - 1 arty goes to extremely aggressive location with hardly any arty cover and repeatedly pokes to shoot enemy every time gun is loaded. Prime target for XVM sniping arty and takes 0 hits.

140 game on Swamp - 1 arty goes to extremely aggressive locations with some arty cover and repeatedly pokes to shoot enemy every time gun is loaded. Prime target for XVM sniping arty and takes 0 hits.

CAX game on Steppes - 1 arty goes to extremely aggressive locations with some arty cover and repeatedly pokes to shoot enemy every time gun is loaded. Prime target for XVM sniping arty and takes 1 hit for 364 hp. 

 

Arty is such a concern for Pro that he only mentions once where to be careful of it. If arty was such a threat then I would have expected him to be regularly talking about arty in terms of the need for caution - especially in positions with no arty cover. 

 

Obviously XVM sniping arty really cramps peoples style and totally prevents aggressive play. You only need to watch any of the great players streaming to see the impact of XVM sniping arty and how restrictive it is on aggressive play. Occasionally it happens but it is generally pretty rare. And these are the players at highest risk. They have zero XVM camo and are obviously targeted by arty nearly every game - some of them say they are targeted each and every game! Its incredible that they can be targeted and still manage to get huge average damage!

 

The weird fixation on the impact of arty is very surprising and totally at odds with any evidence. Anyone who disagrees please run the arty damage mod and post your results so we can see how many times you are shot by arty and how much damage it does.

 

Edited by Puggsley, 29 March 2018 - 02:06 PM.

[Mother_Of_All_Rommel]

Im sure it had me sooo bad in O-ho I end up using spall liner. But other tanks, IS-M, BC12T, T44, not much of problem. Yeah, its dont really hinder active play as much as ppl say it would, thats bullcrap for sure. Arty works really well in campy game, not mobile. Their reload and aim time just not enough to stall aggro push.

[RITZ_GodSpeed]

Chewmatca, on 29 March 2018 - 03:17 AM, said:

3 arty is stupid, too easy to focus someone down top tier 30-40 second reload means 6 shots or more if theres an autoloading(!) frenchie there in a 40 second time frame - that is what is wrong with arty. Too much. Wargamings balance is so broken this is least of their issues. Crayon eaters rings so true, any one of the top players can tell you whats wrong with this game in 3 sentences, engage the community WG.

 

3 artys can lock you permanently in the open...  forever...

Edited by RITZ_GodSpeed, 29 March 2018 - 02:40 PM.

[MagicalFlyingFox]

Puggsley, on 29 March 2018 - 04:53 PM, said:

The arty threat is way overblown.

 

Have a look at Pro's games in the following post.

 

http://forum.worldoftanks.asia/index.php?/topic/79527-prolosers-badly-commentated-antics/

 

WZ111-5A game on Westfield - 2 arty goes to extremely aggressive location with hardly any arty cover and repeatedly pokes to shoot enemy every time gun is loaded. Prime target for XVM sniping arty and takes 1 hit for 172hp. 

140 game on Fiery Salient - 1 arty goes to extremely aggressive location with hardly any arty cover and repeatedly pokes to shoot enemy every time gun is loaded. Prime target for XVM sniping arty and takes 0 hits.

140 game on Swamp - 1 arty goes to extremely aggressive locations with some arty cover and repeatedly pokes to shoot enemy every time gun is loaded. Prime target for XVM sniping arty and takes 0 hits.

CAX game on Steppes - 1 arty goes to extremely aggressive locations with some arty cover and repeatedly pokes to shoot enemy every time gun is loaded. Prime target for XVM sniping arty and takes 1 hit for 364 hp. 

 

Arty is such a concern for Pro that he only mentions once where to be careful of it. If arty was such a threat then I would have expected him to be regularly talking about arty in terms of the need for caution - especially in positions with no arty cover. 

 

Obviously XVM sniping arty really cramps peoples style and totally prevents aggressive play. You only need to watch any of the great players streaming to see the impact of XVM sniping arty and how restrictive it is on aggressive play. Occasionally it happens but it is generally pretty rare. And these are the players at highest risk. They have zero XVM camo and are obviously targeted by arty nearly every game - some of them say they are targeted each and every game! Its incredible that they can be targeted and still manage to get huge average damage!

 

The weird fixation on the impact of arty is very surprising and totally at odds with any evidence. Anyone who disagrees please run the arty damage mod and post your results so we can see how many times you are shot by arty and how much damage it does.

 

 

The reason why those replays were picked were because he didn't get his game ruined by arty.

[Mother_Of_All_Rommel]

Cherry pick situation happen on both side imo. Thats why a solid data to show how much arty impact is needed. Stat wont lie for certain.

[MagicalFlyingFox]

The arty problem has never been about how effective it is. 

[Puggsley]

MagicalFlyingFox, on 29 March 2018 - 11:09 AM, said:

The arty problem has never been about how effective it is. 

 

What is it about then? Not being facetious, I am genuinely curious.

 

But looking at those games is telling in that despite Pro doing everything to be as attractive an arty target as possible, he isn't. Crazib showed similar clips of being extremely aggressive with 2 arty and him almost sitting in the open and he was not shot at as the meme says with XVM sniping and punishing aggressive play.

 

And based on average damage and watching these guys streams these highlighted games are played in similar style to nearly all of their games. Their results show that arty cannot be that effective against them or they would not get those results. Which is why i asked for actual data. Don't just tell us its bad, show us the actual results. We ask people who have theories about MM or WR to do that, why not this claim?

 

I've been watching a lot of streamers to try to take my play to the next level and this is what I've observed.

 

1) great players mostly drive meta tanks - invariably high effective DPM (high base DPM with an accurate high pen gun), mobile and good turret armour.

2) great players (high WN8 + high WR) mostly take highly aggressive forward positions with shots into multiple areas, or shots into choke points with high numbers of tanks. This helps them get early critical damage to start the snowball effect, and spotting and assist damage. They prefer hull down spots and use their skills in amour angling to minimise damage taken. Invariably the positions which offer high damage potential are pretty exposed to arty fire.

3) great players keep the gun singing - they almost always shoot as soon as it is loaded. This means that they don't move far between shots or take what would be called the typical advice about how to minimise arty risk. They take measured risks to take guns out of the game early because it leads to the snowball.

 

Points 2 and 3 mean that very often the unicum player is the first tank spotted and keeps being spotted in order to start getting that huge damage happening. This means if the "arty targets unicums and punishes aggressive play" meme is true arty should be all over them, both from being aggressive and for having no XVM camo. But by a large margin from the streaming and games I have watched, that is not the case.

 

And from the results in terms of both WN8 and WR metric that style of hyper aggressive play is not punished overly by arty. From what I have seen it is hardly punished by arty. This is not to say that occasionally arty will get stuck into someone, but that does not happen very often. There is likely a cost due to arty by playing like that, but it is likely to be very tiny compared to the benefits. If it was a big cost then it would be impossible for the unicums to continue to be such extreme outliers in terms of WN8 and WR.

 

I will be happy to drop this view if people can provide data which shows damage and how many times unicums get punished by arty. Or have streams which show them being constantly targeted.

 

But I strongly suspect its just the arty version of the baseless whinge that WR is controlled by luck.

 

My "digitally derived" estimate (wild arsed guess) is that very few players will receive more than 1 arty shot per game. I ran the arty damage tracker mod when I started playing much more aggressively and my average was 0.4 shots per game. 

 

 

 

[Puggsley]

Some data from Saf and Val on recent twitch streams (about 3 hours of play on 29 March), both widely known & high profile unicums.

 

Saf had 9 games

 

• 16 arty (1.8 per game)
• was hit 10 times (1.1 per game) once had 4 shots in a game with 3 arty (457 damage), another time 3 shots in a 2 arty game (300 damage). 5 games when not shot at all.
• and had 1909 damage (212 per game) though 842 of this came from 2 shotgun hits as he was pushing in for kills at end of game.

 

Val must have a super premium account for his 14 games.

 

• 12 arty (0.9 per game)
• was hit 3 times (0.2 per game) & never more than once per game. 11 games where he was not shot at all.
• and had 934 damage (66 per game) 

Edited by Puggsley, 29 March 2018 - 11:07 PM.

[Mother_Of_All_Rommel]

Where can you have that arty hit log mods? Im sure i got hit alot more due to my campy style , I just wan to see was it my bias, or its true?

[Puggsley]

Ok another 20 games from Saffe

 

Averaged 1.7 arty per game - 4 x 3, 7 x 2, 7 x 1, 2 x 0

Averaged 0.4 hits per game - most was 2

Averaged 82 damage per game - including by far the biggest hit thus far 804 hp in an RU251. Amazing how little the damage usually is - he played LT for 17 of these 20 games.

 

Still early but tbo I have seen zero evidence of XVM sniping.

 

 

 

[Puggsley]

Arty log was in Aslan. I've been running vanilla for a long time now though - guess its still there