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FramFramson #21 Posted 10 April 2018 - 12:59 PM

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View PostThomChen114, on 10 April 2018 - 12:23 PM, said:

 

  it's a harsh reality that you can't, shouldn't, and thus don't rely on random allies to do their job for you. but you may want to consider their perspective, they think their position is fine, and perhaps if the 121 and 430 with you had fallen further back with you and drawn the enemy in then they'd be able to assist, but they only later themselves moved up. Yeah you could've gone elsewhere or just been more patient.

 

yeah, the normalization of APCR vs AP can be wonky (which is why a BC-25t can get away with so much), and also how APCR loses more penetration over distance than AP (though as we all know it obviously doesn't apply to superior Stalinium APCR), and coupled with the already wonky gun handling of the STB-1's 105mm gun makes for a mixed experience. and yeah HEAT is a [edited] when there's plenty of crap and angles that can get in the way.

 

 

Yeah, I didn't focus on the TDs very much, just poked 'em a couple times to see if they'd move up.

 

I'm not sure patience was the answer though... I pretty much spent most of my time that match on that hill waiting for shots, but I should have taken off when it was clear they wouldn't be coming. At least if they'd seen me run, they might have crested the ridge into our TDs' fire.

 

In the match I was just trapped into thinking that surely there must be a way for a tank with a low profile and -10 dep to get some shots in and was going crazy trying to find tiny angles which would allow this, but I really should have just left. That said, I can't shake the feeling that a unicum would have found the angles to shoot from to engage head to head there, but maybe I'm just overestimating the ability of raw skill to overcome a mechanical stalemate like that.


Edited by FramFramson, 10 April 2018 - 12:59 PM.

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CelestiaLudenberg #22 Posted 10 April 2018 - 01:31 PM

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I just got the STB-1 and I am loving it, much more so than my Leopard 1.

 

If you want I can throw up some replays.


3 M.O.E Tanks: E-100, Panzer VII, Leopard 1,  E-75, Leopard PT A, Type 61, Tiger II, VK 45.02A, Indien Panzer, STA-1, Tiger P, Jagdpanther, StuG III G.


MagicalFlyingFox #23 Posted 10 April 2018 - 01:43 PM

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View PostThomChen114, on 10 April 2018 - 02:23 PM, said:

 

  it's a harsh reality that you can't, shouldn't, and thus don't rely on random allies to do their job for you. but you may want to consider their perspective, they think their position is fine, and perhaps if the 121 and 430 with you had fallen further back with you and drawn the enemy in then they'd be able to assist, but they only later themselves moved up. Yeah you could've gone elsewhere or just been more patient.

 

yeah, the normalization of APCR vs AP can be wonky (which is why a BC-25t can get away with so much), and also how APCR loses more penetration over distance than AP (though as we all know it obviously doesn't apply to superior Stalinium APCR), and coupled with the already wonky gun handling of the STB-1's 105mm gun makes for a mixed experience. and yeah HEAT is a [edited] when there's plenty of crap and angles that can get in the way.

 

 

Yeah nah APCR doesn't lose much over distance. Its negligible at worst, unless you are an LT where penetration jumps off a cliff past 50m. 

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 A. Guy on 02 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

Destroyer of Tier 6 CW... says it all about you.


CelestiaLudenberg #24 Posted 10 April 2018 - 01:49 PM

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View PostMagicalFlyingFox, on 10 April 2018 - 05:43 PM, said:

 

Yeah nah APCR doesn't lose much over distance. Its negligible at worst, unless you are an LT where penetration jumps off a cliff past 50m. 

 

This.

 

If APCR is the standard ammo, its penetration drop off is no different to AP, only premium APCR and light tank APCR has the huge drop off.


Edited by DefendingTheFatherland, 10 April 2018 - 01:49 PM.

3 M.O.E Tanks: E-100, Panzer VII, Leopard 1,  E-75, Leopard PT A, Type 61, Tiger II, VK 45.02A, Indien Panzer, STA-1, Tiger P, Jagdpanther, StuG III G.


SaltyBob_ #25 Posted 10 April 2018 - 02:52 PM

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Hey Fram you should try NA it's far more predictable than Asia .....  I get 250+ to NA but it's ok ....  besides it would be more to your time zone ... unless you work midnight shift in a morgue   :honoring:     I just had a flash memory of that Michael Keaton movie   :P

MagicalFlyingFox #26 Posted 10 April 2018 - 03:23 PM

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View PostDefendingTheFatherland, on 10 April 2018 - 03:49 PM, said:

 

This.

 

If APCR is the standard ammo, its penetration drop off is no different to AP, only premium APCR and light tank APCR has the huge drop off.

 

Premium APCR still doesn't drop off that much.

 

10%ish over max distance, which is still just outright superior to AP in all cases. 


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 A. Guy on 02 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

Destroyer of Tier 6 CW... says it all about you.


FramFramson #27 Posted 10 April 2018 - 04:10 PM

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View PostDefendingTheFatherland, on 10 April 2018 - 01:31 PM, said:

I just got the STB-1 and I am loving it, much more so than my Leopard 1.

 

If you want I can throw up some replays.

 

Sure!

 

In spite of my troubles at times, I really love the STB. Easily my favourite TX that I've played and the first tank I've bought Dirty Equipment for (Stabilizing System, second will be Ventilation, but that's a long way off, since I now only have like 120 bonds, lol).

 

In general I feel like tanks that have both high DPM and Good Alpha and I get along well (AMX 30 <3 )


Edited by FramFramson, 10 April 2018 - 04:10 PM.


FramFramson #28 Posted 10 April 2018 - 04:14 PM

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By the way, Food + BiA + Smooth Ride + Dirty Stabilizer + Vents has dropped my bloom on movement to almost nothing (you might notice this in my replays if you look carefully). The only significant bloom left is on turret rotation (which still takes a little while to zoom in). Base accuracy is still lolSTB, but it's pretty funny to pull off snapshots semi-regularly in an STB.

 

Definitely need to get my crew on to firefighting though. It's a pretty fire-safe tank... unless you get hit directly in the rear, then woo look out.


Edited by FramFramson, 10 April 2018 - 04:15 PM.

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CelestiaLudenberg #29 Posted 10 April 2018 - 07:49 PM

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I'll add more to this post rather than making new ones.

 

http://wotreplays.eu/site/4288239#tundra-defendingthefatherland-stb-1

 

http://wotreplays.eu/site/4291053#himmelsdorf-defendingthefatherland-stb-1


Edited by DefendingTheFatherland, 12 April 2018 - 07:42 AM.

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Fun_D3str0y3r_Saffe #30 Posted 10 April 2018 - 08:02 PM

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Ok 2 things.

 

First of all, 

Stop fluffing around so much, you are aiming all over the place and dont seem to have a game plan. 

You had the top of the hill, you should not have given it up that easily. 

Just trade with the patton if you have to but dont give up ground unless you really have to.

 

second thing is start using shift to quick zoom in and then adjust accordingly. 

 

If that was me playing that position I would have re poked for a second shot early on, (but making sure I did not over crest to expose myself to much to potential TDs.

Then I would have worked on the patton and tried to deny them any kind of high ground. 

If you have to give up the high ground you need to either wait for other tanks if you think you can still win that side. or bugger off into the low ground and escape through the middle around the tunnel under the tracks. 


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
 
 
 
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Fun_D3str0y3r_Saffe #31 Posted 10 April 2018 - 08:10 PM

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Second map.

 

A) im not a fan of the position you went to but personal preference. I much prefer playing K line very aggressively, especially if I have good gun depression. 

 

B) Again when you zoom in a lot of times you are not even looking at where you were looking before, it's like you twitch away from the target (high sensitivity?) 

 

C) the way you crested when pushing was sloppy. need to make sure unlit and even then it's very risky as TDs can light you from base. 

 

D) once you guys killed the 215B I Would have gone back to the middle, and looked for shots on either K line or into their base from the high ground. 

 

Pushing forward there is extremely hard and if you were to do it you are better of driving into the ditch below their base hill using the cover of the buildings to get there and then fight them at a much closer distance. Pixel sniping 140s from a distance is not really the best option. 


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
 
 
 
"You guys run around in t10 tanks with, prem consumables, prem rounds, prem crews and even prem modules and that is not fair on the newbies in t8, how do you expect the server to survive if this is what they get from your clan. Some of us want this server to survive."
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CelestiaLudenberg #32 Posted 10 April 2018 - 08:21 PM

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View PostSwedealicious, on 11 April 2018 - 12:02 AM, said:

Then I would have worked on the patton and tried to deny them any kind of high ground. 

If you have to give up the high ground you need to either wait for other tanks if you think you can still win that side. or bugger off into the low ground and escape through the middle around the tunnel under the tracks. 

 


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Sir_Direkin #33 Posted 11 April 2018 - 01:38 AM

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View PostNiceGuy_Saffe, on 10 April 2018 - 08:02 PM, said:

second thing is start using shift to quick zoom in and then adjust accordingly. 

 

Well I can say with all certainly that this one thing improved my gameplay a bit, and I think Sir British mentioned the same as well. It's amazing how little things like this can make a difference.

 

And another name change? :P


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FramFramson #34 Posted 11 April 2018 - 04:01 AM

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View PostNiceGuy_Saffe, on 10 April 2018 - 08:02 PM, said:

Ok 2 things.

 

First of all, 

Stop fluffing around so much, you are aiming all over the place and dont seem to have a game plan. 

You had the top of the hill, you should not have given it up that easily. 

Just trade with the patton if you have to but dont give up ground unless you really have to.

 

second thing is start using shift to quick zoom in and then adjust accordingly. 

 

If that was me playing that position I would have re poked for a second shot early on, (but making sure I did not over crest to expose myself to much to potential TDs.

Then I would have worked on the patton and tried to deny them any kind of high ground. 

If you have to give up the high ground you need to either wait for other tanks if you think you can still win that side. or bugger off into the low ground and escape through the middle around the tunnel under the tracks. 

 

Okay, so I probably should have been more willing to capitalize on my first shot? I.E., assuming I don't expose myself to direct TD fire, I should have been more willing to trade then rather than trying to angle for an advantage where I could shoot without getting hit back (which I obviously never found)? That makes sense, since I do have the DPM to punish the Patton, especially after winning the first trade like that and the 430U was clearly skilled enough to bully or kill any low HP tanks as well.

 

That actually lines up perfectly with what you've been saying about how the meta has shifted from conserving HP to making early trades to gain ground and force a steamroll. :izmena:

 

View PostNiceGuy_Saffe, on 10 April 2018 - 08:10 PM, said:

Second map.

 

A) im not a fan of the position you went to but personal preference. I much prefer playing K line very aggressively, especially if I have good gun depression. 

 

B) Again when you zoom in a lot of times you are not even looking at where you were looking before, it's like you twitch away from the target (high sensitivity?) 

 

C) the way you crested when pushing was sloppy. need to make sure unlit and even then it's very risky as TDs can light you from base. 

 

D) once you guys killed the 215B I Would have gone back to the middle, and looked for shots on either K line or into their base from the high ground. 

 

Pushing forward there is extremely hard and if you were to do it you are better of driving into the ditch below their base hill using the cover of the buildings to get there and then fight them at a much closer distance. Pixel sniping 140s from a distance is not really the best option. 

 

A) Yeah, I go south more these days from east spawn (in fact you see me say "South?" in chat), but the guy I was platooned with went north and he was in an STB with 3 MoE so I was just like "Follow the guy who seems to know what he's doing".

 

B) I don't know if it's due to my high ping or not but one thing I've noticed happen sometimes is that the animation on screen actually doesn't match my aiming cursor sometimes. Like, I'll move my cursor and it will show I'm actually lined up for the shot (i.e. my gun is actually pointing at the target), but the turret will be delayed on screen and then suddenly "snap" to catch up to the crosshairs. I don't know if this delay actually affects replays? My best guess is that the server has to "confirm" my turret position and slight lag will sometimes cause the animation of the turret rotating to lag, but since replays are clientside only it preserves the jittery animation? Especially since replays aren't saved at as many FPS as the match itself.

 

As for the twitching away from targets, yes, my hands actually do that. It's an actual physical problem that happens occasionally and can be frustrating of course.

 

C) Absolutely. I was too distracted that match.

 

D) Also good. I was actually looking at the minimap and wondering if there was something I could do to help mid, because the other flanks were clearly wobbly. I decided to keep pushing since we had them on the back foot so I hoped we could draw off tanks that way, but you're right I should have gotten closer.

 

Really good reviews and advice! Thanks, Nice Guy! :great:

 



FramFramson #35 Posted 11 April 2018 - 04:21 AM

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View PostDefendingTheFatherland, on 10 April 2018 - 07:49 PM, said:

I'll add more to this post rather than making new ones.

 

http://wotreplays.eu/site/4288239#tundra-defendingthefatherland-stb-1

 

This is good too! LOL @ the Strv 103B pushing the Type 5 off his shot at the end. :D

 

What I'm curious about is what was your decision making process/what were you thinking between the time you slotted into cover on the hill and left? You spent a fair bit of time waiting - what did you use to guide your decision of whether or not to push in (after the Bat Chat died - obviously there were too many earlier) stay put (throughout) or relocate (during the "waiting" and also when you finally did)?

 

I'll also see if I can get some more replays of specific maps/situations I tend to have trouble with.

 

View PostSir_Direkin, on 11 April 2018 - 01:38 AM, said:

 

Well I can say with all certainly that this one thing improved my gameplay a bit, and I think Sir British mentioned the same as well. It's amazing how little things like this can make a difference.

 

And another name change? :P

 

Yeah making quickzoom easy was probably the biggest single improvement in my high-tier gameplay ever. All I have to do now is squeeze my right-hand ring finger.


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CelestiaLudenberg #36 Posted 11 April 2018 - 08:24 AM

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View PostFramFramson, on 11 April 2018 - 08:21 AM, said:

 

This is good too! LOL @ the Strv 103B pushing the Type 5 off his shot at the end. :D

 

What I'm curious about is what was your decision making process/what were you thinking between the time you slotted into cover on the hill and left? You spent a fair bit of time waiting - what did you use to guide your decision of whether or not to push in (after the Bat Chat died - obviously there were too many earlier) stay put (throughout) or relocate (during the "waiting" and also when you finally did)?

 

 

To be honest, I was waiting for the battle to develop a bit before making any decision.

 

I would have been more active in taking out the 263, but as they have now added that small bush as well as having the tree knocked over, I was not able to spot him on my own, which meant that if the 1949 poked and spotted me, I would be hit by the 263. 

As for pushing the hill, at the time I was not too confident as to whether my team mates would actually come with, and with Ravvi at the back able to hit them as they poked us, I feared that if I were to push up, I would be isolated as he would no longer be able to hit them due to them most likely re-positioning to face me whilst being in cover from him.

 

I would say I still spent too long making my decision to go down and around, allowing their HT's to get rid of ours along the 1/2 line as well as allowing their STG and Charioteer to clear out mid before I got to them.

 

At the end I was a bit bamboozled as to how 330 penetration wasn't enough to go through the upper half of the Type 5's side, but y'know, they're hard tanks to play.


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ThomChen114 #37 Posted 11 April 2018 - 09:51 AM

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View PostFramFramson, on 11 April 2018 - 04:01 AM, said:

As for the twitching away from targets, yes, my hands actually do that. It's an actual physical problem that happens occasionally and can be frustrating of course.

 

 

D) Also good. I was actually looking at the minimap and wondering if there was something I could do to help mid, because the other flanks were clearly wobbly. I decided to keep pushing since we had them on the back foot so I hoped we could draw off tanks that way, but you're right I should have gotten closer.

 

Really good reviews and advice! Thanks, Nice Guy! :great:

 

maybe adjust the settings on your mouse so its not too sensitive to those occasional twitches.

that has happened to me seasonally. and by seasonally i mean when i forget to turn off the AC during summer or close the window during winter

 

I had the middle area perfectly under control, thank you very much!

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FramFramson #38 Posted 11 April 2018 - 10:48 AM

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View PostThomChen114, on 11 April 2018 - 09:51 AM, said:

I had the middle area perfectly under control, thank you very much!

 

:P

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Fun_D3str0y3r_Saffe #39 Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:42 AM

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View PostFramFramson, on 11 April 2018 - 07:01 AM, said:

 

Okay, so I probably should have been more willing to capitalize on my first shot? I.E., assuming I don't expose myself to direct TD fire, I should have been more willing to trade then rather than trying to angle for an advantage where I could shoot without getting hit back (which I obviously never found)? That makes sense, since I do have the DPM to punish the Patton, especially after winning the first trade like that and the 430U was clearly skilled enough to bully or kill any low HP tanks as well.

It's not just about the DPM, if you got an HP advantage you are in his head and he will most likely play a bit more passive and give up the top hill easier,

the 430U is not a problem as long as he does not find flat terrain to work on. 

 

That actually lines up perfectly with what you've been saying about how the meta has shifted from conserving HP to making early trades to gain ground and force a steamroll. :izmena:

Well I have never been one to conserve HP, I always believe in super aggression, The key to it is make sure you dont die, and if you do they have to throw ALOT away to get you. 

 

 

A) Yeah, I go south more these days from east spawn (in fact you see me say "South?" in chat), but the guy I was platooned with went north and he was in an STB with 3 MoE so I was just like "Follow the guy who seems to know what he's doing".

Fair enough

 

B) I don't know if it's due to my high ping or not but one thing I've noticed happen sometimes is that the animation on screen actually doesn't match my aiming cursor sometimes. Like, I'll move my cursor and it will show I'm actually lined up for the shot (i.e. my gun is actually pointing at the target), but the turret will be delayed on screen and then suddenly "snap" to catch up to the crosshairs. I don't know if this delay actually affects replays? My best guess is that the server has to "confirm" my turret position and slight lag will sometimes cause the animation of the turret rotating to lag, but since replays are clientside only it preserves the jittery animation? Especially since replays aren't saved at as many FPS as the match itself.

Yeah no idea, maybe just mouse sens? 

 

As for the twitching away from targets, yes, my hands actually do that. It's an actual physical problem that happens occasionally and can be frustrating of course.

 

C) Absolutely. I was too distracted that match.

 

D) Also good. I was actually looking at the minimap and wondering if there was something I could do to help mid, because the other flanks were clearly wobbly. I decided to keep pushing since we had them on the back foot so I hoped we could draw off tanks that way, but you're right I should have gotten closer.

My theory is that once you have won one flank, let your team mates "hold" "slow push" and  go and support  other flank as I dont want my influence of the battle to wither down. (i think wither is the right word) 

Just comes back to keeping your gun firing. 

In theory if the enemy team won the other flank it would have been a stale mate because you guys won one side, the other team won the other.

Hence winning one flank quickly then go and support mid/other flank. 

 

 

Really good reviews and advice! Thanks, Nice Guy! :great:

 

 


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
 
 
 
"You guys run around in t10 tanks with, prem consumables, prem rounds, prem crews and even prem modules and that is not fair on the newbies in t8, how do you expect the server to survive if this is what they get from your clan. Some of us want this server to survive."
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Fun_D3str0y3r_Saffe #40 Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:43 AM

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View PostSir_Direkin, on 11 April 2018 - 04:38 AM, said:

And another name change? :P

This is my 8th reroll account now 

Maybe I should send blackhawk an in game message :hiding:


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
 
 
 
"You guys run around in t10 tanks with, prem consumables, prem rounds, prem crews and even prem modules and that is not fair on the newbies in t8, how do you expect the server to survive if this is what they get from your clan. Some of us want this server to survive."
FeelsBirthday




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