Jump to content


Bitcoins get your Bitcoins!


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

Puggsley #1 Posted 03 May 2018 - 02:53 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 63173 battles
  • 1,379
  • [-1AR-] -1AR-
  • Member since:
    04-03-2014

Well how to leverage an old and relatively expensive coal fired power plant that was shut down due to high costs associated with CO2 emissions and playing second fiddle to renewable suppliers?

 

Just get creative.

 

Said power station (130 MW Redbank in the Hunter Valley, Australia) provides super cheap electricity which is made expensive as soon as it enters the grid due to pesky CO2 taxes and the need to keep shutting down and turning on because renewables get priority in selling electrons regardless of the cost.

 

Bitcoins use lots of power to mine.

 

Build a local power network, run the plant very efficiently under baseload conditions and invite Chinese bitcoin miners to relocate to take advantage of super cheap electricity, just $0.08/KWhr compared to the local grid price of $0.28/KWhr. Makes the cost of renewables at $0.80 to $1.50/KWhr for battery backed up sources look very enticing.....

 

And so they have sold a huge chunk of the output from the power station to Bitcoin miners.

 

Suddenly there is a huge amount of interest from energy hungry businesses to do a similar thing with all the ultra cheap coal power plants which are being shut down in the rush to delay temperature increases in 80 years by a couple of years. Hazelwood in Victoria was providing electricity at $0.04/KWhr.

 

This is the nightmare scenario recently described by the CEO of the Australian Energy Market Operator. That electricity intensive customers simply have enough of high energy costs driven by introducing more renewables and leave the grid and become their own low cost fossil fuelled power generators. Running fossil fuelled plants efficiently without needing to turn them up and down to accommodate unreliable renewables provides by far the lowest cost electricity you can get. Then the remaining grid customers will have to pay the high price of developing a renewable based grid, especially the huge battery cost.    

 

 

 

 


Edited by Puggsley, 03 May 2018 - 02:55 PM.


Hype_ #2 Posted 03 May 2018 - 03:16 PM

    I mean, it could be worse

  • Member
  • 8305 battles
  • 1,061
  • [CHE] CHE
  • Member since:
    09-21-2013
Account hacked? :hiding:

 


Defiance_ #3 Posted 03 May 2018 - 03:22 PM

    The Firestarter

  • Council of Armored Forces
  • 24672 battles
  • 1,516
  • [CZARS] CZARS
  • Member since:
    10-24-2013

View PostHype_, on 03 May 2018 - 03:16 PM, said:

Account hacked? :hiding:

 

His recents have dropped. XD

signature.png ?username=Defiance_WoT&theme=dark

 

"Hope is being able to see Light despite all the Darkness."

3 MOE Tanks(14) : Obj 140, IS-3, T32, Panther 8.8,Comet, T20, VK 36.01(H), MT-25, T-34-85M, Cromwell, M4 Sherman, KV-1, Churchill III, PZ IV H


Drunk_Thug #4 Posted 03 May 2018 - 04:46 PM

    First lieutenant

  • Member
  • 39650 battles
  • 528
  • Member since:
    02-16-2013
looks like someone tried to sell account and got hacked LOL:trollface:

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
― Albert Einstein

Puggsley #5 Posted 04 May 2018 - 10:15 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 63173 battles
  • 1,379
  • [-1AR-] -1AR-
  • Member since:
    04-03-2014

Hehe not hacked, my recents reflect the pleasant fact that I have recently found a reliable supplier of top notch discounted tequila!!! mmmmm Milagro Anejo

I'm trying to hint to WG to move their servers to cheap power sources to improve my ping. Its the only thing holding me back from purple!!!;)



azmania3000 #6 Posted 04 May 2018 - 12:22 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 43886 battles
  • 1,494
  • [BURN] BURN
  • Member since:
    03-10-2013

View PostPuggsley, on 04 May 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

I'm trying to hint to WG to move their servers to cheap power sources to improve my ping. Its the only thing holding me back from purple!!!;)

 

Why not revolutionise the entire economy by making energy exchange the primary economic token? Seeing as though agriculture is the basis of an economy I don't understand why we have to burn peat holes to sustain a cryptographic virtual token that has NO MEASURABLE VALUE; its completely arbitrary.

 

That way you can have a meaningful, discrete transparent value that co-incidently the entire universe currently uses.

 

I'm waiting for humans to grow a collective conscience and at least achieve a social responsibility like........sharing food.



DanLBob #7 Posted 04 May 2018 - 12:29 PM

    Major

  • Beta-Tester
  • 24411 battles
  • 3,189
  • [LUCK] LUCK
  • Member since:
    09-16-2012

View Postazmania3000, on 04 May 2018 - 12:22 PM, said:

 

Why not revolutionise the entire economy by making energy exchange the primary economic token? Seeing as though agriculture is the basis of an economy I don't understand why we have to burn peat holes to sustain a cryptographic virtual token that has NO MEASURABLE VALUE; its completely arbitrary.

 

That way you can have a meaningful, discrete transparent value that co-incidently the entire universe currently uses.

 

I'm waiting for humans to grow a collective conscience and at least achieve a social responsibility like........sharing food.

 

But how can we feel better than other people if we all share?

 

Dan



azmania3000 #8 Posted 04 May 2018 - 12:52 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 43886 battles
  • 1,494
  • [BURN] BURN
  • Member since:
    03-10-2013

View PostDanLBob, on 04 May 2018 - 02:29 PM, said:

 

But how can we feel better than other people if we all share?

 

Dan

 

By playing computer games :P. Save your ego for the arena XD

DanLBob #9 Posted 04 May 2018 - 12:59 PM

    Major

  • Beta-Tester
  • 24411 battles
  • 3,189
  • [LUCK] LUCK
  • Member since:
    09-16-2012

View Postazmania3000, on 04 May 2018 - 12:52 PM, said:

 

By playing computer games :P. Save your ego for the arena XD

 

But I can't compete there bad@tanks/gud@life (I wish)

 

Dan



azmania3000 #10 Posted 04 May 2018 - 01:15 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 43886 battles
  • 1,494
  • [BURN] BURN
  • Member since:
    03-10-2013

View PostDanLBob, on 04 May 2018 - 02:59 PM, said:

 

But I can't compete there bad@tanks/gud@life (I wish)

 

Dan

 

If someone is gud@life then they should have no need to make "straw person" arguments and denigrate others :(

 

Maybe ask them to explain why life is meaningful? Is there a "life goodness" quotient that can be examined objectively? Scientology e-meters are out-of-stock on Amazon  



Puggsley #11 Posted 04 May 2018 - 01:18 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 63173 battles
  • 1,379
  • [-1AR-] -1AR-
  • Member since:
    04-03-2014

Look I agree its a totally ridiculous situation, bitcoin and other crypto-currencies are gigantic energy sinks for no apparent purpose. I've heard several people talk about them as essentially being valued based on the amount of energy required to continue to mine them. The huge amount of energy invested is lost unless you use the heat generated.

 

As we move to a renewable economy and energy gets more expensive, the value of bitcoins will only rise, making them even more attractive to mine. Especially when low cost (when run at baseload) fossil fuel generators are made uneconomic by being legislated to respond (as swing producers) to unreliable but priority supply from wind and solar. We will end up with expensive general power made reliable only at huge expense because of gigantic battery systems, and continuing CO2 emissions as energy intensive companies leave the grid to get cheap power at fossil fueled plants which are inherently cheap to run under baseload.

 

Our little street has several "open" gardens. The guard dogs (several greyhounds, a bitzer and bychance a pug) will willingly let you through with a rub under the chin so people can get herbs, greens etc. Scraps are kept for some of the most well fed free-range hens about. They pretty much have the run of the street, except for the gardens guarded by the dogs (the chooks do gang up on the pug though). The street cat is just not interested in anything.



azmania3000 #12 Posted 04 May 2018 - 02:06 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 43886 battles
  • 1,494
  • [BURN] BURN
  • Member since:
    03-10-2013

View PostPuggsley, on 04 May 2018 - 03:18 PM, said:

Look I agree its a totally ridiculous situation, bitcoin and other crypto-currencies are gigantic energy sinks for no apparent purpose. I've heard several people talk about them as essentially being valued based on the amount of energy required to continue to mine them. The huge amount of energy invested is lost unless you use the heat generated.

 

As we move to a renewable economy and energy gets more expensive, the value of bitcoins will only rise, making them even more attractive to mine. 

 

If that's the case then energy supply will supercede token exchange as the primary economic motivator; and its not the value of bitcoin you should be worried about :P

 

Don't forget there are those new-fangled Plasma Reactors that quite a few large-scale institutions are working on. We humans could be on the verge of super-cheap, near limitless energy provision.

 

There is also intermediary technology; like slow-breeder nuclear reactors. Proponents of said technology estimate they have 10 000% higher efficiency (yes they consume 100x less fuel) than the cold war favoured fast-breeder reactors (used primarily for creating enriched uranium).

 

On current consumption there's enough fuel to power the world on slow-breeder reactors alone for several billion years; making nuclear power a renewable resource!!!!

 

IMO I see bitcoin dying a savage, horrific, and gloriously satisfying death once national economies organise regulation and create their own crypto's.

 

View PostPuggsley, on 04 May 2018 - 03:18 PM, said:

Our little street has several "open" gardens. The guard dogs (several greyhounds, a bitzer and bychance a pug) will willingly let you through with a rub under the chin so people can get herbs, greens etc. Scraps are kept for some of the most well fed free-range hens about. They pretty much have the run of the street, except for the gardens guarded by the dogs (the chooks do gang up on the pug though). The street cat is just not interested in anything.

 

Make sure the cat is hunting vermin and not birds. Otherwise its a useless member of your clan and will probably get up to no good stalking chickens in the night :P

 

Sounds like you got a great local community! If the technology crush actually makes it more difficult for primary economies to operate then I expect more people will participate in local community events XD



neokai #13 Posted 04 May 2018 - 02:40 PM

    hunts pixels from red line

  • Senior Moderator
  • 39270 battles
  • 8,243
  • Member since:
    06-07-2013
This entire thread... came out of LEFT field. #justsaying
Spoiler

azmania3000 #14 Posted 04 May 2018 - 04:20 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 43886 battles
  • 1,494
  • [BURN] BURN
  • Member since:
    03-10-2013

View Postneokai, on 04 May 2018 - 04:40 PM, said:

This entire thread... came out of LEFT field. #justsaying

 

It's the most interesting thing thats happened to me today:P

 

Kudos puggs



Puggsley #15 Posted 07 May 2018 - 02:47 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 63173 battles
  • 1,379
  • [-1AR-] -1AR-
  • Member since:
    04-03-2014

View Postazmania3000, on 04 May 2018 - 06:06 AM, said:

 

If that's the case then energy supply will supercede token exchange as the primary economic motivator; and its not the value of bitcoin you should be worried about :P

 

Don't forget there are those new-fangled Plasma Reactors that quite a few large-scale institutions are working on. We humans could be on the verge of super-cheap, near limitless energy provision.

 

There is also intermediary technology; like slow-breeder nuclear reactors. Proponents of said technology estimate they have 10 000% higher efficiency (yes they consume 100x less fuel) than the cold war favoured fast-breeder reactors (used primarily for creating enriched uranium).

 

On current consumption there's enough fuel to power the world on slow-breeder reactors alone for several billion years; making nuclear power a renewable resource!!!!

 

IMO I see bitcoin dying a savage, horrific, and gloriously satisfying death once national economies organise regulation and create their own crypto's.

 

 

Make sure the cat is hunting vermin and not birds. Otherwise its a useless member of your clan and will probably get up to no good stalking chickens in the night :P

 

Sounds like you got a great local community! If the technology crush actually makes it more difficult for primary economies to operate then I expect more people will participate in local community events XD

 

The cat just doesn't seem interested in the slightest in the chickens. Maybe she is a tad long in the tooth?

 

The street xmas party is a doozy. Typified by 8 hours after the 10am kick-off, bleary eyed parents asking "Has anyone seen the kids?" Last year concluded at 1:30am. Kids were asleep on a trampoline. Thank god there was Sunday to recover.



Puggsley #16 Posted 07 May 2018 - 03:03 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 63173 battles
  • 1,379
  • [-1AR-] -1AR-
  • Member since:
    04-03-2014

I agree nuclear is the way to go, but in the meantime I am seeing that coal is going to be King for quite a while yet.

 

Renewables in Germany are on the verge of disaster as subsidies run out. Investment there has collapsed with end of life solar cells not being replaced, every one of the large solar companies has gone bust. Who would have thought that a massive roll out of solar in a country which gets a couple of hours of sunshine for a lot of the year would not work out? Wind is in the death throes as maintenance costs are 4 to 5 times predicted due to leading edge erosion and their subsidies run out in 2020. 

 

India and China are still on massive roll-outs of HELE plants, as is most of Asia. The new Silk Road is going to be delivered by coal. Seen so many scopes for new coal mines recently its not funny. Heard a presentation from an energy executive about use of gas for baseload power generation "That is more stupid than using evian to water your lawn." 



neokai #17 Posted 13 May 2018 - 03:17 AM

    hunts pixels from red line

  • Senior Moderator
  • 39270 battles
  • 8,243
  • Member since:
    06-07-2013

View PostPuggsley, on 07 May 2018 - 03:03 PM, said:

I agree nuclear is the way to go, but in the meantime I am seeing that coal is going to be King for quite a while yet.

 

Renewables in Germany are on the verge of disaster as subsidies run out. Investment there has collapsed with end of life solar cells not being replaced, every one of the large solar companies has gone bust. Who would have thought that a massive roll out of solar in a country which gets a couple of hours of sunshine for a lot of the year would not work out? Wind is in the death throes as maintenance costs are 4 to 5 times predicted due to leading edge erosion and their subsidies run out in 2020. 

 

India and China are still on massive roll-outs of HELE plants, as is most of Asia. The new Silk Road is going to be delivered by coal. Seen so many scopes for new coal mines recently its not funny. Heard a presentation from an energy executive about use of gas for baseload power generation "That is more stupid than using evian to water your lawn." 

 

Isn't there a precedent for use of natural gas for baseload power generation?

 

As for coal-use is there a projected estimate for China's energy use% to be covered by coal vs other sources?


Spoiler




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users