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New WG EULA coming 15th June 2018


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Conan #121 Posted 04 June 2018 - 06:35 PM

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View Postmedoyehd, on 04 June 2018 - 06:10 PM, said:

 

Here is my deal with products bought with real money that I worked to earn.  If I buy something I want to feel secure that I am going to get and have what I am paying for as it was advertised. Obviously I am just a small consumer with no real power, but once the trust and security in products from a company are gone I feel NO reason to continue to support or give positive word of mouth advertising to said company.  As a consumer. 

 

Meaning I will still use the items I have on and off, but I will not be buying anymore nor will I be referring friends or people I know to the company. 

 

By all means. I mean I know that we're not looking hot right now. All I can do right now is take what you say and let our company know. 

Simply, of course, I would like to keep you as a customer, but if at any reason you feel that we are not worth your time and money, then I will not force you to continue supporting us. Doing so will be more disrespecting as I know I can't meet your expectations and yet I force you to stay with is. 
 

Now you can go an about with what ever you feel like while I try my best to make sure that that expectation can be fulfilled as soon as we can. If you can stay with us while we try to improve, we appreciate it immensely. If you wish to go somewhere else, then I hope you find something that will make you happy and is worth your while .

 

 

View PostAlexTheKid72, on 04 June 2018 - 06:25 PM, said:

 

The policy itself is unethical. This is why the consumer guarantees act was created in New Zealand - to prevent exactly what you are proposing in your EULA. Obviously the New Zealand act does not apply for the rest of the world, but the ethics it is based upon, the cows excrement you are offering that goes completely against those ethics does.

If you don't like it stop playing is also insulting to long term investors in your product.

 

That's why that EULA does not apply to Australia and New Zealand. ANZ gets it's own EULA. Sorry about the "unethicallity" of it but that's the way it is. I can't force you to do anything. 

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Revan #122 Posted 04 June 2018 - 07:07 PM

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View PostConan, on 04 June 2018 - 06:35 PM, said:

By all means. I mean I know that we're not looking hot right now. All I can do right now is take what you say and let our company know. 

Simply, of course, I would like to keep you as a customer, but if at any reason you feel that we are not worth your time and money, then I will not force you to continue supporting us. Doing so will be more disrespecting as I know I can't meet your expectations and yet I force you to stay with is. 
 

Now you can go an about with what ever you feel like while I try my best to make sure that that expectation can be fulfilled as soon as we can. If you can stay with us while we try to improve, we appreciate it immensely. If you wish to go somewhere else, then I hope you find something that will make you happy and is worth your while .

 

 

 

That's why that EULA does not apply to Australia and New Zealand. ANZ gets it's own EULA. Sorry about the "unethicallity" of it but that's the way it is. I can't force you to do anything. 

 

EULA have also been challenged in court and overturned, I'm in NZ. If they want to do drastic changes to a tank (and removing pref MM is one of them) a full refund in cash or gold is fair IMHO. 

 

 I know fairness and refund and concepts like that probably don't exist in Russia and WG already has a crap reputation anyway. 

 

 You can make the argument WG can do whatever they want, my account ran out today my argument is I don't have to play the game (server numbers are already down),. I sure as hell don't have to give them any more monies. With the game being unfun (FL was good), power creep, the general crapiness of the MM this game is no longer fun anyway. 

 

 No amount of pretty HD graphics can fix that. 


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medoyehd #123 Posted 05 June 2018 - 12:24 AM

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View PostConan, on 04 June 2018 - 06:35 PM, said:

By all means. I mean I know that we're not looking hot right now. All I can do right now is take what you say and let our company know. 

Simply, of course, I would like to keep you as a customer, but if at any reason you feel that we are not worth your time and money, then I will not force you to continue supporting us. Doing so will be more disrespecting as I know I can't meet your expectations and yet I force you to stay with is. 
 

Now you can go an about with what ever you feel like while I try my best to make sure that that expectation can be fulfilled as soon as we can. If you can stay with us while we try to improve, we appreciate it immensely. If you wish to go somewhere else, then I hope you find something that will make you happy and is worth your while .

 

 

 

That's why that EULA does not apply to Australia and New Zealand. ANZ gets it's own EULA. Sorry about the "unethicallity" of it but that's the way it is. I can't force you to do anything. 

 

No, I understand you are just the face in the forum.  I was direct, but not in a personal way.  I've worked as a CSR in the US for companies like Chrysler Financial and AT&T warranty exchange, there's a fun CSR job with 'friendly' customers you have to tell their phone is out of warranty for physical or liquid damage.  Or working for Union Planters Bank and having to tell a business that they are going to be $100 short on their deposit because a $100 bill they got was counterfeit.  So I fully understand the position you are in, but my feelings are directed solely at Wargamming and the direction they are seeming to go in their business choices. 

FramFramson #124 Posted 05 June 2018 - 03:39 AM

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View Postmedoyehd, on 04 June 2018 - 11:24 AM, said:

 

No, I understand you are just the face in the forum.  I was direct, but not in a personal way.  I've worked as a CSR in the US for companies like Chrysler Financial and AT&T warranty exchange, there's a fun CSR job with 'friendly' customers you have to tell their phone is out of warranty for physical or liquid damage.  Or working for Union Planters Bank and having to tell a business that they are going to be $100 short on their deposit because a $100 bill they got was counterfeit.  So I fully understand the position you are in, but my feelings are directed solely at Wargamming and the direction they are seeming to go in their business choices. 

 

Oh man, I used to be the Warranty manager at Virgin Mobile ten years ago and I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. The stuff we got was hilarious, like a damn baggie of dust and fragments that used to be a phone and the guy on the line is raging about his warranty not being honoured. Classic!

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FramFramson #125 Posted 05 June 2018 - 03:43 AM

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View PostConan, on 04 June 2018 - 03:42 AM, said:

View PostFramFramson, on 04 June 2018 - 04:32 PM, said:

Seriously... it's insane that even two weeks after maybe the company's worst public relations disaster in seven years, that not even a low level HQ spokesman has said anything. It violates every corporate relations rule and crisis management dictum I can think of, regardless of whether the company's overall plan is ethical or not!

 

You don't just.... say NOTHING, and expect everything to be okay. Unless maybe you're 4 years old and just crapped your pants. 

 

Fram, I actually said quite a few about this. Sure, not solutions, but I admitted as much as that fiasco is our fault with the terribly written article. 

Nothing on that article is final, nothing set in stone. The intent of the article was wildly different to what it came out as due to the unfortunate misuse of words (of the language in general in my opinion.) 

 

We are intimately familiar with the disaster we brought to ourselves. As much as I have details I want to tell you, I can't at the moment because we don't want to make a bigger hole. Sure, not saying anything specific is slowly digging deeper but me saying the wrong thing will blow a hole in it twice my size. I ask that you hold on a little bit longer. 

 

 

Conan, no offence intended, but you are a regional Admin, not senior global management.

 

When a company fucks up so badly that their entire global client base is furious at them, they need to offer something more than to "speak with a manager".

 

The lack of reply from anyone in Cyprus is both rank cowardice and blatantly insulting.


Edited by FramFramson, 05 June 2018 - 07:26 AM.


JOC469 #126 Posted 05 June 2018 - 05:37 AM

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View PostFramFramson, on 05 June 2018 - 05:43 AM, said:

 

Conan, no offence intended, but you are a regional Admin, not senior global management.

 

When a company fucks up so badly that their entire global client base is furious at them, they need to something more than to "speak with a manager".

 

The lack of reply from anyone in Cyprus is both rank cowardice and blatantly insulting.

 

Or perhaps WG don’t see it as such a big deal?


 

View PostSir_British, on 11 February 2016 - 11:24 PM, said:

joc469, the great purporter of  'name-changer' and 'clan-leaver' all hail the JOC469!


FramFramson #127 Posted 05 June 2018 - 07:25 AM

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View PostJOC469, on 04 June 2018 - 04:37 PM, said:

Or perhaps WG don’t see it as such a big deal?

 

This certainly possible, but it means they're even more clueless than we figured. I mean, the rage thread on the Russian forums was over getting to 600 pages and the EU one was a couple hundred too (but both are being aggressively pruned now), literally every CC has either hostile, negative, or negative-neutral reviews, and every major WoT news outlet is carrying the story with a pretty negative slant.

 

To say that's no big deal involves, well, pass me whatever they're smoking.

 

But I don't think that's true. Based on past behaviour, I feel like if WG DID think this was just something to let blow over, they would have just kept on putting out news articles like nothing was wrong, or with some dismissive comment about minor issues. Even silence is a message.

 

 


Edited by FramFramson, 05 June 2018 - 07:27 AM.

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Puggsley #128 Posted 05 June 2018 - 09:02 AM

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It appears to me that we are in the final throes of trying to dance around underlying issues with the game.

 

The happy phase of each new development seems now to be measured in days. The change to 1.0 looked pretty but within a very short time it appeared to create its own set of issues with things like camo. I would have been pretty disappointed considering how much effort had been invested in the product and to have that kind of reaction. The new MM has been a fiasco. Grand Battles, where are they now? Frontline had a slightly longer happy phase, but the bandaids are just not working as well anymore.

 

Its time to face up to the underlying issues.

 

Companies often need a major crisis before they turn things around and either fail, or get a lot more focused on their customers. What will WG do?



SaltyBob_ #129 Posted 05 June 2018 - 11:34 AM

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Edited by SaltyBob_, 05 June 2018 - 11:35 AM.


FramFramson #130 Posted 05 June 2018 - 11:47 AM

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Personally, I think there's a good possibility that at least one of the idiots who has a hand on the wheel refuses to give up his death grip on the "maximum milking" business model. I do believe that 3/5/7 was very deliberately designed to be unpleasant and to encourage spending and reduce credit income in order to boost WG's returns, and whether it's company solvency or simply some big wheel's ego that's at stake, they really really really don't want to back down. 

 

What level of opposition to this there is internal to WG, and the possibility for change... well, who knows? Maybe this person or persons is/are willing to burn the company to the ground before admitting fault or relinquishing power. Hubris is a thing.

 

It's worth pointing out that WG is not a publicly owned company. There are no mass shareholders to answer to for gross mismanagement of the business - only Victor Kislyi, who owns 64% of WG.

 

It's possible that only concerted, direct communication with (or at least at) Victor will produce any sort of reply.

 

This is, of course, mere speculation on my part.


Edited by FramFramson, 05 June 2018 - 11:48 AM.

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User_000125661 #131 Posted 05 June 2018 - 11:55 AM

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Well something must be hurting their bottom line - I just got given a 30% discount coupon (I assume everyone else got one as well).  First coupon I ever got from WG.


 


FramFramson #132 Posted 05 June 2018 - 12:32 PM

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Some people got those a few months ago, but certainly not everyone.

 

They seem to be given out at random and are not anything new.


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azmania3000 #133 Posted 05 June 2018 - 02:16 PM

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Block Quote

 


Note that, among other changes, we are introducing a separate EULA for Australia and New Zealand and combining EULA and Terms of Service into one document. If you do not agree to the new EULA, you may not use our games after June 15, 2018 and must close your Account. The current EULAs and Terms of Service will still apply until that date. 

 

 

 So I have some questions;

 

How do I delete my account?

What is the relevent timeframe that I must choose to accept or reject the EULA?

 

There have been previous forum threads discussing account closures; the result of which was to either close the thread or claim that account information is held permanently.

 

What happens to people that travel for work? I know one such person that is employed on a fishing trawler and spends several months in international waters. I know people that are employed in the armed services and will be deployed for training or active service.

 

Additionally; I hold more than one account. I must log in to each account in order to retain my licence to your services that I have tendered.

 

Maybe I want to do other things with my limited available free time; like watch the Fifa World Cup Finals. Which; incidentally, starts at the same time the new WG EULA becomes active.............what a strange co-incidence.

 

I take particular offence to people that dictate what I can and cannot do with my free time, because they don't have the slightest clue about the democratic process; so I'll spell it out here.......Don't tell me what to do. Don't tell me how to do it, or when, where and whom I do "it" with. These are priveleges granted by the citizen body of the Democracy. They are immutable.


Edited by azmania3000, 05 June 2018 - 02:17 PM.


Quasinerdo #134 Posted 05 June 2018 - 02:50 PM

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View PostFramFramson, on 05 June 2018 - 09:25 AM, said:

 

This certainly possible, but it means they're even more clueless than we figured. I mean, the rage thread on the Russian forums was over getting to 600 pages and the EU one was a couple hundred too (but both are being aggressively pruned now), literally every CC has either hostile, negative, or negative-neutral reviews, and every major WoT news outlet is carrying the story with a pretty negative slant.

 

 

 

The number of pages in a thread is not relevant - it's the number of contributing customers. Look here at our forums - there are about 15-20 routine shit-posters who just troll around and debate spelling, grammar or other irrelevant rubbish. Most don't even play the game anymore.


 

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Quasinerdo #135 Posted 05 June 2018 - 02:57 PM

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View PostConan, on 04 June 2018 - 06:31 PM, said:

 

Okay, then our EULA states that if you want to play this game, we will give you the license to play it, not the ownership. If you don't like to accept those terms, then don't play. If you think we're being unfair and breaking laws, then why did you accept in the first place? If you accepted BEFORE this was changed, then please consider it something that you no longer agree to and stop playing. If you want to sue us, please go ahead. That's what you wanted to hear, yeah?

I am trying to be reasonable, trying to explain what is going on. I am not sure if you saw it but at every corner, I said how I felt about it. Sure it sucks, but it's industry wide practice, that's the explanation I have right now. 

Easy turbo :P

Please don't think I'm attacking you personally. My statement is a reflection of my view about how businesses, and other organisations rationalise their decisions. I speak of WG as an entity, not you as a conduit for communicating their decisions.


 

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Conan #136 Posted 05 June 2018 - 02:58 PM

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View Postazmania3000, on 05 June 2018 - 02:16 PM, said:

I take particular offence to people that dictate what I can and cannot do with my free time, because they don't have the slightest clue about the democratic process; so I'll spell it out here.......Don't tell me what to do. Don't tell me how to do it, or when, where and whom I do "it" with. These are priveleges granted by the citizen body of the Democracy. They are immutable.

I am terribly sorry to go on a tangent, but Democracy has rules too and rules tell you what to do and what not to do. Sorry about that...

 

Back to topic, if you want to delete your account, Log in to the portal with your account, click your IGN on the top right, go to Account Management then on that page click Data Management on the Data Protection box on the bottom right of the available boxes. Then proceed with account deletion. 

 
Please feel free to delete, since May 25 2018, it is now your RIGHT to delete your account whenever you wish. 
Of course, I do not want to offend you, so delete it or not, it's your choice.

 


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View PostConan, on 05 June 2018 - 04:58 PM, said:

Please feel free to delete, since May 25 2018, it is now your RIGHT to delete your account whenever you wish. 

Didn't actually know that.

 

Is there a 'how to' we can link to every time a pubbie has a whine and says they are leaving?


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Conan #138 Posted 05 June 2018 - 03:32 PM

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View PostEzz, on 05 June 2018 - 03:22 PM, said:

Didn't actually know that.

 

Is there a 'how to' we can link to every time a pubbie has a whine and says they are leaving?

 

Ezz:
https://asia.wargaming.net/support/en/products/wot/articles/610/

It still takes 45 days to completely delete the account but it is now in players hands. This was implemented in regards to the data privacy changes. 

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Brave_Sir_Robin #139 Posted 05 June 2018 - 03:45 PM

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View PostConan, on 04 June 2018 - 08:42 AM, said:

 

Fram, I actually said quite a few about this. Sure, not solutions, but I admitted as much as that fiasco is our fault with the terribly written article. 

Nothing on that article is final, nothing set in stone. The intent of the article was wildly different to what it came out as due to the unfortunate misuse of words (of the language in general in my opinion.) 

 

We are intimately familiar with the disaster we brought to ourselves. As much as I have details I want to tell you, I can't at the moment because we don't want to make a bigger hole. Sure, not saying anything specific is slowly digging deeper but me saying the wrong thing will blow a hole in it twice my size. I ask that you hold on a little bit longer. 

 

 

Australian and NZ players can sign their EULA safe in the knowledge that Wargames can't contract out of their countries consumer laws - in other words, the EULA changes are not worth diddly squat if the violate NZ or Australian law. 

 

The problem for Wargames isn't that some dude from NZ will try and sue them. It will be that they'll be prosecuted in a criminal court by the NZ government for breaching either the NZ Consumer Guarantees Act or the Fair Trading Act or both. Wargames will then have to show up and defend themselves/negotiate or be convicted and fined. Most likely, they could simply say the game EULA now means the game is not available to players in all those countries that have similar consumer rights laws - in other words, practically the entire developed world (don't know about the Americans, it wouldn't surprise me if every state was different - California probably has strong consumer laws, not so much in Arkansas).

 

But the fact that you've even got players who are thinking of seeking protection from their respective consumer rights laws in relation to policy changes should be a huge warning bell for Wargames management. Just because everyone else is loot boxing and in-game gambling their merry way to serious regulatory intervention doesn't mean Wargames has to as well. Computer games are meant to be fun, not a a front for gambling with deliberately broken game balance designed for P2W. At the fundamental level that made the game special - attention to detail, careful game balance and good match making - WoT has become less and less fun since 9.18 came out.


Edited by Brave_Sir_Robin, 05 June 2018 - 03:56 PM.


azmania3000 #140 Posted 05 June 2018 - 03:57 PM

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View PostConan, on 05 June 2018 - 04:58 PM, said:

Back to topic, if you want to delete your account, Log in to the portal with your account, click your IGN on the top right, go to Account Management then on that page click Data Management on the Data Protection box on the bottom right of the available boxes. Then proceed with account deletion. 

 

Thanks for the update on the new privacy features. However I would still like some clarification on the timeframe before accounts are removed by WarGaming.

Is june 15 a hardline, where non-compliant accounts will be removed on June 16? Or is there a "reasonable window" (e.g. 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 3 months)?

If I understand the EULA, then it appears WG holds arbitrary discretion to destroy accounts "wherever it is convenient or neccessary to do so".

 

Ignoring any legal ramifications, this looks like a bad business decision. I've seen several player that will take leave for months or even years and still come back to this game.

 

View PostConan, on 05 June 2018 - 04:58 PM, said:

Please feel free to delete, since May 25 2018, it is now your RIGHT to delete your account whenever you wish. 
Of course, I do not want to offend you, so delete it or not, it's your choice.

 

 Control of my personal information has always been my express legal right since my 18th birthday. WG HQ only chose to acknowledge that legal right a few weeks ago. There's a big difference between these 2 events and I humbly ask that this is communicated to your management team. 

 





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