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User_1023782966 #1 Posted 08 June 2018 - 09:37 AM

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Hi neokai,

You have locked the thread "Thank you WarGaming for the new EULA" which I started yesterday.
You have the authority to do that.
You finished the thread with the following post...

 

neokai said:

And I get to have the last word. I sincerely hate it when uneducated Americans bring in their misguided conceptions of free speech.

XKCD: Free Speech

 There is an existing thread on the new EULA here. Please do not create duplicates. Thread locked.

 ~neokai

 

 

I don't like living under misconceptions, so please take the time to (re)educate me.

 

Firstly, I am not an American so I fail to see how KKCD: Free Speech applies to my post - please explain.

 

Secondly, by Americans do you mean all Americans? There are a lot of North Americans living in Canada and a lot more South Americans living in South America. If you are going to tell the world that you hate the actions of a select group of people, you should probably be more specific as to who those people are - no point offending people you don't have a problem with - right?

 

Thirdly, even if I was in that group of people with which you have a problem, is it really your job to tell us? I don't have a problem with what you said if it is just your opinion (you have a right to your opinions), but if that is job - well!

 

Finally, the new EULA contains the following...

 

9.3.6 the Fansite will not post material that is disparaging, illegal or infringes on the rights of any third party or that damages (or that might damage) the reputation of Wargaming or of any of the Games;

 

Can you please find out if the word Fansite includes this forum, and if it does, would I get into trouble by posting something like "I think that what WarGaming has done by introducing gambling into a game targeted at children is an immoral act and that our government should respond by strengthening our consumer protection laws"?

 

Thank you for your time.

Please don't block this thread as that would be a form of censorship and when censorship wins, everyone loses.

Resist.


Disputing moderator action, Inappropriate content; User warned

 

~neokai

 

 


Edited by Centurion_IRL, 08 June 2018 - 01:28 PM.

Every system is perfectly designed to produce exactly the results that it produces.

charcoal44 #2 Posted 08 June 2018 - 09:57 AM

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Another can of woop arse opened

BadAtLightTanks #3 Posted 08 June 2018 - 10:07 AM

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View PostUser_1023782966, on 08 June 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi neokai,

You have locked the thread "Thank you WarGambling for the new EULA" which I started yesterday.
You have the authority to do that.
You finished the thread with the following post...

 

And I get to have the last word. I sincerely hate it when uneducated Americans bring in their misguided conceptions of free speech.

XKCD: Free Speech

 There is an existing thread on the new EULA here. Please do not create duplicates. Thread locked.

 ~neokai

 

I don't like living under misconceptions, so please take the time to (re)educate me.

 

Firstly, I am not an American so I fail to see how KKCD: Free Speech applies to my post - please explain.

 

Secondly, by Americans do you mean all Americans? There are a lot of North Americans living in Canada and a lot more South Americans living in South America. If you are going to tell the world that you hate the actions of a select group of people, you should probably be more specific as to who those people are - no point offending people you don't have a problem with - right?

 

Thirdly, even if I was in that group of people with which you have a problem, is it really your job to tell us? I don't have a problem with what you said if it is just your opinion (you have a right to your opinions), but if that is job - well!

 

Finally, the new EUA contains the following...

 

9.3.6 the Fansite will not post material that is disparaging, illegal or infringes on the rights of any third party or that damages (or that might damage) the reputation of Wargaming or of any of the Games;

 

Can you please find out if the word Fansite includes this forum, and if it does, would I get into trouble by posting something like "I think that what WarGambling has done by introducing gambling into a game targeted at children is an immoral act and that our government should respond by strengthening our consumer protection laws"?

 

Thank you for your time.

Please don't block this thread as that would be a form of censorship and when censorship wins, everyone loses.

Resist.


 


 

 

Oh No. You use red font in the post above. That is not allowed even though you are merely copy quoting the Mod. :ohmy: You need to understand that this forum is not meant for you and me to voice differing and dissenting minority views. Hope you last longer in this forum without a permanent ban which I should be expecting to happen to myself sooner or later. :hiding:

agentfrost #4 Posted 08 June 2018 - 10:11 AM

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:o

neokai #5 Posted 08 June 2018 - 10:17 AM

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Moved to a more appropriate sub-forum.

 

~neokai

 

Typically discussion/dispute of a moderator action is not allowed (part of the forum rules that you accepted with the EULA), but I will humor your request this time, since:

  1.  You at least tried to frame the question neutrally
  2. You clearly will persist despite warnings/sanctions and intend to offer yourself a martyr figure from the oh-so-bad censorship.

Spoiler

neokai #6 Posted 08 June 2018 - 11:07 AM

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Edit: forum ate my  draft, haizzzzzzz

 

View PostUser_1023782966, on 08 June 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

I don't like living under misconceptions, so please take the time to (re)educate me.

 

Firstly, I am not an American so I fail to see how KKCD: Free Speech applies to my post - please explain.

 

 

Free speech is covered in various charters/constitutions within the countries in both Americas. I am going to assume you are Canadian, your freedom to expression is covered in section 2(b) of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

 

A constitution defines the limits/freedoms of behaviour of members within an organization, and the organization itself, in the example above that of Canadian people and the Canadian government. You can think of it as an agreement that governs the relationship between the people and their government.

 

Freedom of expression does not free you from ignoring contractual agreements (e.g. the existing EULA, more specifically the Forum Rules that you agreed to). Freedom of expression does not absolve you from the consequences of your actions. That is what the XKCD comic explains in a 4-koma format, more eloquently than I could.

 

View PostUser_1023782966, on 08 June 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

Secondly, by Americans do you mean all Americans? There are a lot of North Americans living in Canada and a lot more South Americans living in South America. If you are going to tell the world that you hate the actions of a select group of people, you should probably be more specific as to who those people are - no point offending people you don't have a problem with - right?

 

In this case I mean anyone from the NA (North American) forums. I was also specific in what I was offended by (the act of misunderstanding the concept of free speech to excuse their actions) so I have no issue with my specificity.

 

Stick to your own forums and not our forums in ASIA.

 

View PostUser_1023782966, on 08 June 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

Thirdly, even if I was in that group of people with which you have a problem, is it really your job to tell us? I don't have a problem with what you said if it is just your opinion (you have a right to your opinions), but if that is job - well!

 

This question reinforces my perception that you are unfamiliar with our forums. Moderators are player-volunteers and not staff. I do not work for Wargaming.

 

You have just invaded our forums to spout your spiel, with little respect for the local community.

 

It also speaks volumes about your character (and somewhat ironic) that you are threatening my "job" for expressing my opinion - freedom of expression runs both ways.

 

View PostUser_1023782966, on 08 June 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

Finally, the new EULA contains the following...

 

9.3.6 the Fansite will not post material that is disparaging, illegal or infringes on the rights of any third party or that damages (or that might damage) the reputation of Wargaming or of any of the Games;

 

Can you please find out if the word Fansite includes this forum, and if it does, would I get into trouble by posting something like "I think that what WarGaming has done by introducing gambling into a game targeted at children is an immoral act and that our government should respond by strengthening our consumer protection laws"?

 

A fansite is any medium created by a fan. This forum is created by Wargaming and is thus not a fansite.

 

Misspelling a name so you can demonize it is a juvenile tactic that has no place in proper discourse. You want to assembly and shout slogans, do it in NA, not here.

 

And it's disingenuous to present an opinion under the guise of "would I get into trouble for X". That is immature, insidious and dishonest. If you want to check whether something is appropriate, PM me and I am happy to advise. Anything posted in the forums is considered "public".


Edited by neokai, 08 June 2018 - 11:48 AM.

Spoiler

DerRegenbogen #7 Posted 08 June 2018 - 11:18 AM

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View Postneokai, on 08 June 2018 - 10:17 AM, said:

Moved to a more appropriate sub-forum.

 

~neokai

 

Typically discussion/dispute of a moderator action is not allowed (part of the forum rules that you accepted with the EULA), but I will humor your request this time, since:

  1.  You at least tried to frame the question neutrally
  2. You clearly will persist despite warnings/sanctions and intend to offer yourself a martyr figure from the oh-so-bad censorship.

 

How did he spell WG?
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ksthegreat91 #8 Posted 08 June 2018 - 11:29 AM

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View PostRainbow_The_Artistic, on 08 June 2018 - 03:18 AM, said:

 

How did he spell WG?

 

[Content removed]

 

Inappropriate; Content removed

 

~neokai


Edited by neokai, 08 June 2018 - 03:15 PM.


ksthegreat91 #9 Posted 08 June 2018 - 12:32 PM

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What most Americans call "Freedom" is known to the rest of the world as "The Illusion of Freedom"

 

Also we don't go around quoting ancient texts to justify stuffs like ethnic clensing. (Mods did I go too far? If so please delete this)



Mystblade #10 Posted 08 June 2018 - 01:16 PM

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IDK about other countries but Australia does not have the right to freedom of speech protected by its constitution.

CelestiaLudenberg #11 Posted 08 June 2018 - 01:26 PM

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I love forum noobs, they provide a lot of entertainment.

 

Also, keep up the good work neokai.


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User_1023782966 #12 Posted 08 June 2018 - 01:30 PM

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View Postneokai, on 08 June 2018 - 11:07 AM, said:

Edit: forum ate my  draft, haizzzzzzz

 

 

Free speech is covered in various charters/constitutions within the countries in both Americas. I am going to assume you are Canadian, your freedom to expression is covered in section 2(b) of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

 

A constitution defines the limits/freedoms of behaviour of members within an organization, and the organization itself, in the example above that of Canadian people and the Canadian government. You can think of it as an agreement that governs the relationship between the people and their government.

 

Freedom of expression does not free you from ignoring contractual agreements (e.g. the existing EULA, more specifically the Forum Rules that you agreed to). Freedom of expression does not absolve you from the consequences of your actions. That is what the XKCD comic explains in a 4-koma format, more eloquently than I could.

 

 

In this case I mean anyone from the NA (North American) forums. I was also specific in what I was offended by (the act of misunderstanding the concept of free speech to excuse their actions) so I have no issue with my specificity.

 

Stick to your own forums and not our forums in ASIA.

 

 

This question reinforces my perception that you are unfamiliar with our forums. Moderators are player-volunteers and not staff. I do not work for Wargaming.

 

You have just invaded our forums to spout your spiel, with little respect for the local community.

 

It also speaks volumes about your character (and somewhat ironic) that you are threatening my "job" for expressing my opinion - freedom of expression runs both ways.

 

 

A fansite is any medium created by a fan. This forum is created by Wargaming and is thus not a fansite.

 

Misspelling a name so you can demonize it is a juvenile tactic that has no place in proper discourse. You want to assembly and shout slogans, do it in NA, not here.

 

And it's disingenuous to present an opinion under the guise of "would I get into trouble for X". That is immature, insidious and dishonest. If you want to check whether something is appropriate, PM me and I am happy to advise. Anything posted in the forums is considered "public".

 

 

Hi neokai,

 

Thanks for answering my questions, but we need to get a few things straight.

 

I am not Canadian. I am Australian, have been for 58 years.

While Australia does not have explicit freedom of speech in any constitutional or statutory declaration of rights, it is populated by people who believe they (we) have not only the right, but also the obligation to call out unfair play when we see it. This sense of right and wrong outweighs all other forces, be they individuals, organisations or "agreements" drawn up by lawyers to impose the will of the strong over of that of the weak. In short, if it’s wrong, its wrong.

 

I will not stick to my own forum. Even though Asia is my forum if I want to read what's going on in the NA or EU forums and then post about it here, I will - assuming there is no rule stating I will be banned for doing so.

 

The thing about threatening your job - Really? I actually said you have a right to your opinions. And you are questioning my character?!

 

Misspelling a name? A tactic yes, not sure about the juvenile bit, but you're entitle your opinion. I have seen all sorts of two word phrases starting with W and G on the various forums. Why do you suppose that is? I think it is a symptom of frustration resulting from watching a company go from a place of admiration and gratitude to a place of suspicion and mistrust . I (like many) hope that WG finds its way back and that we will read only good things about it in the forums. Not because of any threats or censorship, but because we just plain like what it’s doing.

 

My final question about section of 9.3.6 of the new ELUA was a genuine one. I have edited out the rest of this paragraph because I did not read your response carefully enough before addressing it.

 

Yours forever (or until I get banned and have to think of a new ING)
User_1023782966
 

 


Edited by User_1023782966, 08 June 2018 - 02:04 PM.

Every system is perfectly designed to produce exactly the results that it produces.

MagicalFlyingFox #13 Posted 08 June 2018 - 01:34 PM

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View PostUser_1023782966, on 08 June 2018 - 03:30 PM, said:

 

 

 

 yet you want to answer my question is secret? I will now copy you and make an assumption - that the answer to the question is not a good one. Feel free to PM me with the secret answer.

 

 

what?


http://www.theuselessweb.com/

 A. Guy on 02 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

Destroyer of Tier 6 CW... says it all about you.


CelestiaLudenberg #14 Posted 08 June 2018 - 01:38 PM

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Ah, should've known they are an Australian, they are always the ones to harp on about their laws and such on the forums.

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MagicalFlyingFox #15 Posted 08 June 2018 - 01:40 PM

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View PostCelestiaLudenberg, on 08 June 2018 - 03:38 PM, said:

Ah, should've known they are an Australian, they are always the ones to harp on about their laws and such on the forums.

 

Now that's mean. I'd only harp on laws if they were relevant, and regards to the EULA, probably the only time its been relevant. 

 

Even then, its specifically at the ownership of premium tanks. 


Edited by MagicalFlyingFox, 08 June 2018 - 01:41 PM.

http://www.theuselessweb.com/

 A. Guy on 02 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

Destroyer of Tier 6 CW... says it all about you.


User_1023782966 #16 Posted 08 June 2018 - 01:41 PM

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View PostMagicalFlyingFox, on 08 June 2018 - 01:34 PM, said:

what?

 

neokia wants me to PM him/her my question before he answers it.

Seeing as the question has already been asked in my post, I don't see why he/she can't just PM me the answer - if it a secret.

If its not a secret he/she can just post the answer so everyone can read it.


 


Every system is perfectly designed to produce exactly the results that it produces.

MagicalFlyingFox #17 Posted 08 June 2018 - 01:44 PM

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View PostUser_1023782966, on 08 June 2018 - 03:41 PM, said:

 

neokia wants me to PM him/her my question before he answers it.

Seeing as the question has already been asked in my post, I don't see why he/she can't just PM me the answer - if it a secret.

If its not a secret he/she can just post the answer so everyone can read it.


 

 

What? No, he wants you to PM him anything you feel that might be red penned. 

 

Hell, I'd run through some posts through mods before I put them up to make sure i don't get R/Oed in less serious things.

 

He wouldn't be answering the question, he'd just be saying yes/no or advising on how to phrase it to not get red penned. 

 

Not sure how you managed to assume that he'll be answering the question, he wrote nothing of the sort. 


Edited by MagicalFlyingFox, 08 June 2018 - 01:44 PM.

http://www.theuselessweb.com/

 A. Guy on 02 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

Destroyer of Tier 6 CW... says it all about you.


CelestiaLudenberg #18 Posted 08 June 2018 - 01:44 PM

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You could at least have the decency to spell his name correctly, if you wish to be taken on a serious note.

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User_1023782966 #19 Posted 08 June 2018 - 01:47 PM

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View PostCelestiaLudenberg, on 08 June 2018 - 01:44 PM, said:

You could at least have the decency to spell his name correctly, if you wish to be taken on a serious note.

 

Thank you, corrected.
Every system is perfectly designed to produce exactly the results that it produces.

User_1023782966 #20 Posted 08 June 2018 - 01:51 PM

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View PostMagicalFlyingFox, on 08 June 2018 - 01:44 PM, said:

 

What? No, he wants you to PM him anything you feel that might be red penned.

 

Hell, I'd run through some posts through mods before I put them up to make sure i don't get R/Oed in less serious things.

 

He wouldn't be answering the question, he'd just be saying yes/no or advising on how to phrase it to not get red penned.

 

Not sure how you managed to assume that he'll be answering the question, he wrote nothing of the sort.

 

Bugger!

So there was never any chance of getting an answer to me question!

I guess I should edit my post so that I don't look quite so stupid.

Too late now.


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