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Looking in to Mid Tiers: Actual Suggestions Requested


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Alastor_N #21 Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:17 PM

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View PostVolkerman, on 12 June 2018 - 09:09 PM, said:

Tank Name: DW2

Nation: Germany
Tier: 4

Type: HT

Deficiencies: Quite slow although typical of a low tier HT, gun is a complete joke and the same can be said about its armor which is in no way similar to AMX 40 or B1/B2, accuracy and gun handling is also a complete joke. The only way to play this thing properly is to buy a lot of HEATs which is something that low-skilled players are incapable of, due to their limited credits. 

Suggested Improvements: Add the 7.5cm L/40, it will surely make this thing playable, plus it would fit the playstyle of the next tank which is the VK 30.01 H.
 

Tank Name: Valentine

Nation: UK

Tier: 4

Type: MT

Deficiencies: Slow reload in all guns, it takes 4 sec with a fully trained crew to reload its 57mm gun, and 7 sec (?) for the 75mm gun.

Suggested Improvements: Reduce the reload down to 3 sec and 5.5 sec, respectively, to make it on par with the Matilda.

 

What are you talking about? The 57mm gun has a reload of 2.4 seconds and the 75mm gun has a reload of 4.1 seconds,


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Zynth #22 Posted 12 June 2018 - 10:50 PM

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Tank Name: Aufklärungspanzer Panther

Nation: German

Tier: VII

Type: LT

Deficiencies: Not in game.

Suggested Improvements: Add back to game.

 

 

 

 

Tank Name: Chi Ri

Nation: Japanese

Tier: VII

Type: MT

Deficiencies: Position of emblems makes it look derpy.

Suggested Improvements: Move position of emblems back to where they were before model was HD, closer to the front and lower.

 


Edited by Zynth, 12 June 2018 - 10:52 PM.

 

RIP Aufklärungspanzer Panther 16th July 2015. You will be missed, friend.

 

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Volkerman #23 Posted 13 June 2018 - 12:14 AM

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View PostAlastor_N, on 12 June 2018 - 09:17 PM, said:

 

What are you talking about? The 57mm gun has a reload of 2.4 seconds and the 75mm gun has a reload of 4.1 seconds,

 

Correction, i was using 80% crew from my old Crusader when it was still a light tank, but i can clearly remember that it wasn't that fast as you mentioned. I will rebuy the thing soon, see if i was wrong.

Edited by Volkerman, 13 June 2018 - 12:17 AM.

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FramFramson #24 Posted 13 June 2018 - 06:53 AM

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View PostVolkerman, on 12 June 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

Tank Name: DW2

Nation: Germany
Tier: 4

Type: HT

Deficiencies: Quite slow although typical of a low tier HT, gun is a complete joke and the same can be said about its armor which is in no way similar to AMX 40 or B1/B2, accuracy and gun handling is also a complete joke. The only way to play this thing properly is to buy a lot of HEATs which is something that low-skilled players are incapable of, due to their limited credits. 

Suggested Improvements: Add the 7.5cm L/40, it will surely make this thing playable, plus it would fit the playstyle of the next tank which is the VK 30.01 H.

 

I would second this. The DW2 is one of the very worst T4 tanks and is basically nothing more than an XP pinata. To that, I would also add it's successors:

 

Tank Name: VK 30.01 (H)

Nation: Germany

Tier: 5

Type: HT

Deficiencies: Weak and unimpressive in most regards as compared to other Heavies of the same tier.

Suggested Improvements: The tank is meant to be played as a sniper/support HT, dependent on rate of fire and accuracy as are the German HTs to follow. I would increase the Alpha on the final gun (the Waffe/Konisch squeeze gun a tad so as to make it more clearly the best gun for the tank (the one preceding it has worse RoF and accuracy, but better alpha) and a bit of a better reward for having to grind through four guns.

 

Tank Name: VK 36.01 (H)

Nation: Germany

Tier: 6

Type: HT

Deficiencies: Again, this tank is meant to be played as a sniper/support HT, but is let down by its guns.

Suggested Improvements: The interim gun is the Waffe/Konisch which is the top gun on the preceding tank, so the alpha upgrade suggested for the VK 30.01 H should apply here too, offering a good alternate or mid-grind gun. Also, since the VK 36 is noted for having a choice between the Waffe gun and the Short 88 (8,8 cm Kw.K. 36 L/56), I would also increase the base and gold pen of the 88 by 15-25mm - something that gun needs across all tanks which use it and would lessen the notorious pain of the Tiger I stock grind. The VK 36 is also noted for having an extremely weak ammo rack and awful turret rotation, so I would slightly buff the ammo rack HP and the turret rotation speed.

 

Realistically, this is more about improving certain German guns to be a bit better for their tier than it is any specific tanks per se. A small alpha upgrade to the Waffe gun and a pen increase (and possibly a small shell speed increase or a tiny alpha boost - say +10 - as well?) to the short 88 should do a lot for many of the mid-tier Geman tanks, all of which struggle to be effective and often have very painful grinds (especially for newer players), with the exception of a couple of the mediums and the Tiger I (but only after all upgrades have been unlocked). 


Edited by FramFramson, 13 June 2018 - 08:49 AM.

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kookookichoo #25 Posted 13 June 2018 - 07:21 AM

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I don’t understand the hate for the dw2...since it was buffed a ways back it can be quite the bully

sure, u need to load a bit o gold every now and then but I found it a blast to play

 

the grind to the waffe on the vk 30.01 h is outrageously painful

 

valentine dpm does seem niggardly given its matilda-like speed...



CelestiaLudenberg #26 Posted 13 June 2018 - 08:30 AM

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Anything with the 88 L/56.

 

Why does it still not have its historical penetration values?

The tests on captured guns by the British showed that it had values of 162/219/110, not sure where the 145/194/44 come from.

This would seriously help out the VK 30.02D and the VK 36.01H as for tier respective tier/class their guns are pathetic.

 

Funnily enough the same is with the 75 L/70 and 88 L/71

88 L/71: 232/304/110

75 L/70 185/265/unlisted

 

Obviously there are balancing factors, but even if just some tanks had theirs adjusted, there is no need to have that stupid 88 L/100 in the game when the real 88 L/71 had better penetration anyway, just give the Panther II and E50 the real values.


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FramFramson #27 Posted 13 June 2018 - 08:45 AM

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Yeah, German guns across the board could use some help. Not all of them, but certainly a few. That's what the Germans are supposed to be all about in WoT, accuracy and (in some cases) DPM, and they trade a lot in terms of armour, mobility, and other important stats. Given power creep, their guns just aren't what they used to be (and it's not like they were amazing a year or two ago), so now a lot of German tanks have sweet [edited] all going for them. The Tiger I is an ahistorical DPM machine now, but at least it's a very respectable T7 tank (when fully researched). But most of the other German mid-tier tanks are just punching bags. Even the Tiger II is in a pathetic state.

 

View Postkookookichoo, on 12 June 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

I don’t understand the hate for the dw2...since it was buffed a ways back it can be quite the bully

sure, u need to load a bit o gold every now and then but I found it a blast to play

 

I dunno, I have never once ever felt threatened by a DW2 in this game. not that I play against T4s that often, but when I see a Douchewagon my usual reaction is "Yippee! Free XP!"


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FramFramson #28 Posted 13 June 2018 - 09:00 AM

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Tank Name: Comet

Nation: Britain

Tier: 7

Type: MT

Deficiencies: A big letdown, tier for tier, as compared to the Cromwell which precedes it. Power creep in T8 and T9 tanks has meant that the once-effective Comet, is now little more than cannon fodder. It's penetration, which was already weak for a T7, is even more confusing given the British tendency to have guns which trade alpha for DPM and high pen (the Comet DOES have good DPM for a T7, but with that pen it's very difficult to get any use out of it).

Suggested Improvements: A pen increase to deal with all the T9s and OP T8 prems running around is probably the most dire need. I would also increase speed and Power-to-Weight to be closer to the Cromwell's, allowing it to retain the Cromwell's role as a light, fast flanker MT. Perhaps adding a new engine option besides the T5 Meteor which by T7 is tired and underpowered.


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FramFramson #29 Posted 13 June 2018 - 09:06 AM

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Tank Name: Hellcat

Nation: USA

Tier: 6

Type: TD

Deficiencies: The once grossly-overpowered Hellcat was heavily nerfed several years ago. It's still a passable fast and sneaky TD, but the overnerf has left it in a bad position when fighting newer, tougher T8s.

Suggested Improvements: The Hellcat really needs to reclaim its reputation for being fast and agile. I don't think it needs a huge buff as the top speed is (on paper) 72kmh. The gun is still good and the camo is obviously effective. Just improve the power-to-weight ratio so it can actually reach that on-paper top speed (without a downhill slope, it's nearly impossible to break 55kmh with the PtW ratio it currently has unless you run gas AND you have a good long time to build up speed).


Edited by FramFramson, 13 June 2018 - 09:55 AM.

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FramFramson #30 Posted 13 June 2018 - 09:12 AM

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Tank Name: Chaffee

Nation: USA

Tier: 5

Type: LT

Deficiencies: Heavily nerfed during the LT rebalance, the Chaffee is still alright but the gun's abnormally slow shell speed feels out of place and makes it hard to deal damage in many cases. It's also out of place as no other American tank has this odd drawback.

Suggested Improvements: Restore some or all of the lost shell velocity.


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cplripley #31 Posted 13 June 2018 - 09:13 AM

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Tiger and Tiger P,  just drop them a tier as is, let them face historical enemy, a t150 will still tear them to shreds but al least they wont see t54's that are happily trotting around a battle right now somewhere in the world.

Panther, likewise,  let the fanboys have some joy.


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FramFramson #32 Posted 13 June 2018 - 09:38 AM

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Last one for now.

 

Tank Name: Type 4 Chi-To

Nation: Japan

Tier: 6

Type: MT

Deficiencies: Amazing DPM for T6, with a decent gun and good depression, but also slow, has an awful power-to-weight ratio (12! Yuck!), unarmoured, and has bad camo, making it an easy target for OP T8s.

Suggested Improvements: It doesn't have to be a fast tank, but improving the power to weight to at least a mediocre (for an MT) 15 or so would give the tank a better chance to try and escape fights it can't handle.

 

Tank Name: Type 5 Chi-Ri

Nation: Japan

Tier: 7

Type: MT

Deficiencies: Everything except the gun and the large HP pool. Seriously this PoS is slow, huge, has horrible camo values and no armour. It also has lower DPM (but still good for a T7) as compared to the preceding tank. In the hands of anyone but Zynth the Chi Ri is another XP pinata.

Suggested Improvements: Not sure, really. The gun is good enough that pushing it further might be too OP. I wouldn't increase the armour, since the Japanese MTs aren't very armoured. I almost wish you could pull a bit of a fast one and shrink it the way you guys made the E25 undersized as compared to it's historical size, making it the same size as the Chi-Nu and Chi-To. Since that sort of change is unlikely, the best option is again to up the power to weight, perhaps up to 16 so as to keep it's small PtW improvement over the Chi-To (assuming the change listed above).


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FramFramson #33 Posted 13 June 2018 - 09:40 AM

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View Postcplripley, on 12 June 2018 - 08:13 PM, said:

Tiger and Tiger P,  just drop them a tier as is, let them face historical enemy, a t150 will still tear them to shreds but al least they wont see t54's that are happily trotting around a battle right now somewhere in the world.

Panther, likewise,  let the fanboys have some joy.

 

The Tiger I is currently pretty unhistorical, with it's in-game cardboard armour, but there are several premium Tigers at T6 already, which match the historical Tiger I much better.

 

The Tiger P could be dropped a tier though.


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Zynth #34 Posted 13 June 2018 - 10:46 AM

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View PostFramFramson, on 13 June 2018 - 09:38 AM, said:

Tank Name: Type 5 Chi-Ri

Nation: Japan

Tier: 7

Type: MT

Deficiencies: Everything except the gun and the large HP pool. Seriously this PoS is slow, huge, has horrible camo values and no armour. It also has lower DPM (but still good for a T7) as compared to the preceding tank. In the hands of anyone but Zynth the Chi Ri is another XP pinata.

Suggested Improvements: Not sure, really. The gun is good enough that pushing it further might be too OP. I wouldn't increase the armour, since the Japanese MTs aren't very armoured. I almost wish you could pull a bit of a fast one and shrink it the way you guys made the E25 undersized as compared to it's historical size, making it the same size as the Chi-Nu and Chi-To. Since that sort of change is unlikely, the best option is again to up the power to weight, perhaps up to 16 so as to keep it's small PtW improvement over the Chi-To (assuming the change listed above).

 

I take personal offense to this. The Chi Ri is not nearly as slow as most people paint it to be.

 

Poor DPM is offset by the ridiculously good autoloader. 390 damage in 3 seconds spread over 3 shots. Like a D-25t with better accuracy and less punishing for misses but with slightly higher exposure time offset by amazing aim time.


 

RIP Aufklärungspanzer Panther 16th July 2015. You will be missed, friend.

 

But not for long. For "Heroes never die."


cplripley #35 Posted 13 June 2018 - 10:52 AM

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View PostFramFramson, on 13 June 2018 - 09:40 AM, said:

 

The Tiger I is currently pretty unhistorical, with it's in-game cardboard armour, but there are several premium Tigers at T6 already, which match the historical Tiger I much better.

 

The Tiger P could be dropped a tier though.

 

We sure do, and yet even as 6s they get shredded and no one plays them, prob because they should all be 5s before they started to seem the beasts they should be, so the 2 tier 7s down to 6 would leave them as still bad, but not a total joke.
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DanLBob #36 Posted 13 June 2018 - 11:37 AM

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Tank Name: Artillery

Nation: All

Tier: T3-6

Type: Artillery

Deficiencies: None that I care about

Suggested Improvements: Reduce ROF and or splash

 

Been grinding the Swedish (at T6/7)  and Italian (at T4) lines since I returned to this game. Noticing the impact that the mid tier arty's seem to have. The ROF seems quite high, there are seemingly a large number of battles with three arty, and there is the ever present splash and the high arcs of many of the mid tier arty. When combined with other mid tier issues (player inexperience, poor accuracy of mid tiers tanks, lack of trained crews etc) these arty's seem to often dictate the game.

 

Dan

 

Disclaimer: entrenched antipathy towards artillery class may cause confirmation bias



DanLBob #37 Posted 13 June 2018 - 11:46 AM

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Tank Name: Derp tanks

Nation: Most

Tier: 2-6

Type: TD's, Mediums, Heavys

Deficiencies: Lack of viable non-derp guns

Suggested Improvements: Derp has become the basic standard for almost any vehicle that has it as an option in the mid tiers. Either make the derps more costly in terms of game play compromises you make to have one or improve the returns for guns that actually rely on aiming and penetration to do damage.

 

Dan



FramFramson #38 Posted 13 June 2018 - 11:48 AM

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View Postcplripley, on 12 June 2018 - 09:52 PM, said:

 

We sure do, and yet even as 6s they get shredded and no one plays them, prob because they should all be 5s before they started to seem the beasts they should be, so the 2 tier 7s down to 6 would leave them as still bad, but not a total joke.

 

I actually find the HT IV to be quite good for a T6 Heavy, apart from the low pen. Which would be addressed by giving the 88 L/56 its historical pen values.

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FramFramson #39 Posted 13 June 2018 - 11:49 AM

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View PostDanLBob, on 12 June 2018 - 10:46 PM, said:

Tank Name: Derp tanks

Nation: Most

Tier: 2-6

Type: TD's, Mediums, Heavys

Deficiencies: Lack of viable non-derp guns

Suggested Improvements: Derp has become the basic standard for almost any vehicle that has it as an option in the mid tiers. Either make the derps more costly in terms of game play compromises you make to have one or improve the returns for guns that actually rely on aiming and penetration to do damage.

 

Dan

 

The Sherman's 76 is actually a really solid gun. Nerfing the derp just a tiny hair would make that a bit more of a real choice though, since just about everyone I see playing a Sherman derps in it. 

 

The Pz IV H though, the derp is unquestionably the top gun on that thing and it's not even close.


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MagicalFlyingFox #40 Posted 13 June 2018 - 11:50 AM

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Tiger I is absolutely great. Its armour is bad which is fine because the gun is just absolutely amazing. That DPM is just insane and the mobility is enough to shift around and be a slow medium tank. 

 

The Tiger P is the same thing but worse in every single way. Except the armour which is hit or miss, but that doesn't matter when its so much slower and the gun is so much worse. 

 

 

>.> I'm a weirdo that farmed ace tankers with the historical 75mm on the Pz IV. 


Edited by MagicalFlyingFox, 13 June 2018 - 11:51 AM.

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 A. Guy on 02 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

Destroyer of Tier 6 CW... says it all about you.





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