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Looking in to Mid Tiers: Actual Suggestions Requested


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FramFramson #41 Posted 13 June 2018 - 11:53 AM

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View PostMagicalFlyingFox, on 12 June 2018 - 10:50 PM, said:

Tiger I is absolutely great. Its armour is bad which is fine because the gun is just absolutely amazing. That DPM is just insane and the mobility is enough to shift around and be a slow medium tank. 

 

The Tiger P is the same thing but worse in every single way. Except the armour which is hit or miss, but that doesn't matter when its so much slower and the gun is so much worse. 

 

 

>.> I'm a weirdo that farmed ace tankers with the historical 75mm on the Pz IV. 

 

Yeah, I agree that the Tiger P is trash. If they don't want to drop it a tier, they really should make the armour properly effective for a T7 HT.

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FramFramson #42 Posted 13 June 2018 - 12:00 PM

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View PostZynth, on 12 June 2018 - 09:46 PM, said:

 

I take personal offense to this. The Chi Ri is not nearly as slow as most people paint it to be.

 

Poor DPM is offset by the ridiculously good autoloader. 390 damage in 3 seconds spread over 3 shots. Like a D-25t with better accuracy and less punishing for misses but with slightly higher exposure time offset by amazing aim time.

 

Well, I did state several times that the gun is good. Even the DPM isn't bad or anything, it's just lower than the ludicrous DPM of the Chi-To.

 

I'm not saying increase the top speed or anything. Just make them a bit more able to use what they've got.


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Kentravyon #43 Posted 13 June 2018 - 12:11 PM

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Nothing has stalled me more than this tank, I've gone and ground out multiple lines to tier 10 after trying it and still don't want to touch it.
Tank Name: Churchill VII

Nation: UK

Tier: 6

Type: Heavy

Deficiencies: Mobility, gun depression, alpha

Suggested Improvements: Improve on 1 or 2 of the deficiencies. This tank is slower than the O-I and when it reaches the front line noone cares. With the weakest tier 6 HT gun you'd think it would at least be flexible but it only has 4 degrees gun dep. The low alpha is only a problem because you can't chase enemies faster than they reverse.

  • 35km/h top speed with 12 or 13 hp/t
  • at least 6 degress gun depression over the front and at least 8 over the sides
  • If it was only getting a weapon improvement it would need a 20-pdr

I would write one for the black prince as well but I haven't yet had the displeasure of playing it.



Ezz #44 Posted 13 June 2018 - 12:19 PM

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Side note, not sure Conan wants this to turn into a debated topic... but while we're there... the chi ri is one of those knife edge tanks similar to the T20. It's not easy to play for new players, but if it received much in the way of buffs it would be pretty broken.

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The_average_tanker #45 Posted 13 June 2018 - 12:20 PM

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Tank Name: M44

Nation: USA

Tier: 6

Type: SPG

Deficiencies: I would say it does not have deficiencies. It is too strong tier for tier. So i guess a nerf would be a good step forward. Going by the stats it is one of the best "tanks" at tier 6.

Suggested Improvements: Nerf the rate of fire and splash radius. Is what i can think of, maybe a mobility nerf because artillery does not need to great mobility most of the time.

 

Also it is good that WG is considering the mid tiers balance. Hopefully some good suggestions come out of it.


Edited by The_average_tanker, 13 June 2018 - 12:21 PM.

 

 

 

 


The_average_tanker #46 Posted 13 June 2018 - 12:37 PM

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View PostBurningSeraph, on 12 June 2018 - 05:20 PM, said:

Name: KV-4

Nation: USSR

Tier: 8

Type: Heavy

Deficiencies: Lack of armour/armour is flat and is on the whole easy to pen by most eights, nines, and is laughable in tier ten battles. Must be exposed to make use of DPM, but doesn't have armour to do so. It also has no gun depression to compensate for the cupolas of either turret.

Suggestions: Have the KV-4 be a competitor to the VK-100.01. The tank desperately needs frontal armour. Buff the turret face and upper front hull to 240mm, the cupola face to 220mm, and leave the rest of the armour how it is, then give it 8 degrees of gun depression instead of 6 and KV-4 should be competitive.

 

Edit: I missed the bit about tier 4-7. Im going to stand by this because tier 8 is the most [edited] on tier in the game and KV-4 needs love.

Edit edit: My signature is referencing my three marking the KV-4, but KV-4 is definitely not stronk.

 

While they reworked most of the lines, this line is yet to get some love. I think WG have put this line on hold until they can get the 2 barrel mechanic down for the ST-II. Hopefully they will get around to balancing this line soon.

 

 

 

 


D_is_for_derping #47 Posted 13 June 2018 - 01:33 PM

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View PostThe_average_tanker, on 13 June 2018 - 04:37 AM, said:

 

While they reworked most of the lines, this line is yet to get some love. I think WG have put this line on hold until they can get the 2 barrel mechanic down for the ST-II. Hopefully they will get around to balancing this line soon.

 

With the kv 4, its too much like a Tiger II clone while being a superheavy. one of the reasons i hated it. any buff  to it would be nice

Alastor_N #48 Posted 13 June 2018 - 01:35 PM

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View PostVolkerman, on 13 June 2018 - 12:14 AM, said:

 

Correction, i was using 80% crew from my old Crusader when it was still a light tank, but i can clearly remember that it wasn't that fast as you mentioned. I will rebuy the thing soon, see if i was wrong.

 

Oh I was talking about the DW2

 


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Cesare777 #49 Posted 13 June 2018 - 01:47 PM

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Tank Name: Nashorn

Nation: German

Tier: 6

Type: TD

Deficiencies: View range and effective camo.

Suggested Improvements: Increase view range from 360 to at least 380, and while the camo rating looks fine, it's effective camo is not, with no armour + large target, easy prey when spotted. Haven't played it much after the "view range" balancing. ARLV39 also bad to worse.

 

Note on M44, while it packs a punch, the stats (VBaddict) has it no:18 winrate below the AMX-13 no:13, so it's not OP in average hands.

 

 



Zynth #50 Posted 13 June 2018 - 01:54 PM

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The M44 can drop its reload time down to 16s with the right skills, equipment and food. This is not ok.


 

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Vindictus_Maximus #51 Posted 13 June 2018 - 01:59 PM

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I dont have the stats at hand so cant follow the formula, but the tier5 American artillery has terrible aim time. So many fast moving target at mid tiers makes this arty unplayable IMO. It needs an aim time buff

MagicalFlyingFox #52 Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:13 PM

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View PostVindictus_Maximus, on 13 June 2018 - 03:59 PM, said:

I dont have the stats at hand so cant follow the formula, but the tier5 American artillery has terrible aim time. So many fast moving target at mid tiers makes this arty unplayable IMO. It needs an aim time buff

 

Maybe you should shoot the things sitting still. 

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 A. Guy on 02 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

Destroyer of Tier 6 CW... says it all about you.


JT_____XXXL #53 Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:25 PM

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The biggest problem with low / med tier tanks that experienced players are frustrated with arent really issues that can be combated easily or if at all. Poor vehicle characteristics and gun handling aswell as +2/-2 MM. Which really is the whole point of playing through those tanks.

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The_average_tanker #54 Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:02 PM

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View PostMagicalFlyingFox, on 13 June 2018 - 11:43 AM, said:

 

Maybe you should shoot the things sitting still. 

 

That is what arty trying to prevent camping will do. But then how does it hit the scout light tank moving at 60 km/h at full speed? Because obviously that light tank is camping.

 

 

 

 


Ezz #55 Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:20 PM

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View PostThe_average_tanker, on 13 June 2018 - 05:02 PM, said:

 

That is what arty trying to prevent camping will do. But then how does it hit the scout light tank moving at 60 km/h at full speed? Because obviously that light tank is camping.

 

Any tank going any speed in a straight line is pretty straight forward for a competent arty driver. A tank driving erratically and then it's to whether the RNG gods want to screw with you.

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Quasinerdo #56 Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:50 PM

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I think mid tiers overall are best tiers 5-6. View ranges and vehicle dynamics overall make the map size less constricting with regard to all vehicles seeing much of the map and there is more definition between tank roles I think. Tier 6 begins to suffer as Tier 8 is a huge step up however offsetting that with buffs would make them too strong for lower tiers.

 

 

 



 

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Hype_ #57 Posted 13 June 2018 - 04:49 PM

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Tank Name: Sherman 3 and Sherman Firefly

Nation: British

Tier:5-6

Type: Medium

Deficiencies: In such a weird place in the tech tree, no real reason to play them by any standards.

Suggested Improvements: Possible changes to the line, very slight buffs to the Firefly? Would like to see other opinions here.

 

 

 


 


tallyh0 #58 Posted 13 June 2018 - 05:43 PM

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I appreciate the replies about specific tanks, especially the Germans and especially the heavy tanks. Some love is required.

 

However my suggestion is more general. Tier 4-7 is a "grind through and rarely keep the tanks" zone. A tiny number of the 6s are worth keeping for Strongholds, but the bulk of 4-7 are sheer grinds to more attractive keepers at Tier 8 and 10. Other than that there are some fan boy history nuts who keep specifics, and sometimes you find a vehicle that just fits right with how you play that you retain so you have a tank to platoon with your mates who are grinding that tier, but mostly you want to see these tanks in the rear view mirror. 

 

So my first suggestion is a blanket -10% on the cost of modules for Tiers 4-7. Then add that saving onto the final grind of the outcome vehicle(s). Easy to effect in a future patch. Net change to the total grind? Nothing. Why? To enhance the "sweet spot" of enjoyment in a vehicle that is fully researched, and to cement the game play skills that will grow as you move up the tiers in that style. +2 MM is ok if you have reasonable ability to pen, but not so much that it tempts you to go toe to toe with a heavy tanks 2 tiers higher. That foolishness should be punished. I don't mind at all leaving 8-10 as they are, where you have to be able to play the tank stock for a long time. I want drivers of top tier tanks to have made a blood sacrifice to progress, or go back to the mids where survival and coin is easier.

 

Next, we could have a frequently repeating "Mid Tier Love" event, where as well as the normal bonus for the first win each day, we also have a x2 for the *second* win in a TIER 4-7 (not premium?). This would encourage mids to be played more often and make the grinds a little easier. And crew training to a useful level achievable if you want to retain the mid tank and play it regularly.

 

However - the major purpose of Tier 4-7 is to get to Tier 8 and onward, for Clan Wars viable tanks. My suggestions will sweeten that path for the players for a minimal investment from the game. Comments?



Mother_Of_All_Rommel #59 Posted 13 June 2018 - 06:12 PM

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Conana gonna have hard time removing these post ( including this :D ).
But theres not much reason to keep Mid tier other than to grind the tanks above it. WG are to deep in their elite end game goal crap they end up making mid tier a pain to play, and not much worth to keep.

Edited by Mother_Of_All_Rommel, 13 June 2018 - 06:13 PM.

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Hype_ #60 Posted 13 June 2018 - 06:15 PM

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View PostMother_Of_All_Rommel, on 13 June 2018 - 08:12 PM, said:

Conana gonna have hard time removing these post ( including this :D ).
But theres not much reason to keep Mid tier other than to grind the tanks above it. WG are to deep in their elite end game goal crap they end up making mid tier a pain to play, and not much worth to keep.

 

That's the point of this thread I believe, to make these mid tiers more attractive to play.

 





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