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Looking in to Mid Tiers: Actual Suggestions Requested


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MM_is_Broken #81 Posted 14 June 2018 - 03:18 PM

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If you want to improve stuff just talk to me ill tell you all you want to hear in a civil manner 

I even offered this to Travis at the wellington gathering 

 

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I only play the game so i dont know much about the game:facepalm:


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FramFramson #82 Posted 14 June 2018 - 04:13 PM

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View PostHype_, on 13 June 2018 - 03:49 AM, said:

Tank Name: Sherman 3 and Sherman Firefly

Nation: British

Tier:5-6

Type: Medium

Deficiencies: In such a weird place in the tech tree, no real reason to play them by any standards.

Suggested Improvements: Possible changes to the line, very slight buffs to the Firefly? Would like to see other opinions here.

 

I just wanted to second this. In real life the Firefly was a very cool upgrade to the Sherman, giving it the penetration to deal with bigger, tougher (i.e. higher tier) tanks and was one of the best late-war tanks which actually saw substantial combat with the allies.

 

Instead, in WoT the Firefly is absurdly slow, losing a huge amount of mobility as compared to an ordinary T5 Sherman (a drawback which the Sherman Firefly did not have in real life), being hit on engine power, top speed, AND terrain resistance. And while the gold pen is the highest among non-premium T6 Mediums (only the AC4 has higher gold pen) and has high gold pen for T6 in general, it also has one of the worst AP pen values of T6, when penetration was the Firefly's defining feature! As it is, the Firefly's pretty much unplayable and it's extremely rare to see one in a match.

 

I would definitely give the Firefly the top speed and power-to-weight of the basic M4 Sherman at least and maybe buff the terrain resistance to be closer to the Sherman as well. A Firefly with a top speed of 48kph and 15.3 PtW is serviceable and would hardly be broken. A mild AP pen buff to at least match or slightly better the Cromwell's 180mm would at least give it AVERAGE AP pen for T6.

 

Also, the Firefly really shouldn't be a dead end for mediums. While it does lead to the T7 TD, it would be nice if it at least had a side unlock for the Cromwell.


Edited by FramFramson, 14 June 2018 - 04:16 PM.

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BurningSeraph #83 Posted 14 June 2018 - 04:25 PM

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View PostMM_is_Broken, on 14 June 2018 - 05:12 PM, said:

Honestly there are so many to list and yet you cant figure this out yourselfs?

seems like you dont understand your own game so its kinda scary really

 

I'd view this more as actual proof that some level of Wargaming staff are actually asking us what we think and potentially listening as opposed to the PR department stating 'we're listening to feedback' or 'we have heard you and are doing X'. This thread is in essence a positive thing.

Conan, on 01 October 2018 - 08:48 PM, said:

This makes me sad

MM_is_Broken #84 Posted 14 June 2018 - 04:30 PM

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I mean there is 50 ? tier 6 tanks in game and bascially they mainly want cromwells or t3485m in a stronghold 

so people actually think 2 out of 50 are good umm hello?

 


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Mother_Of_All_Rommel #85 Posted 14 June 2018 - 04:38 PM

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View PostMM_is_Broken, on 14 June 2018 - 04:30 PM, said:

I mean there is 50 ? tier 6 tanks in game and bascially they mainly want cromwells or t3485m in a stronghold 

so people actually think 2 out of 50 are good umm hello?

 

Thats the fault in competition system. There should be cap on number of same tank a group could use in a play. 3 cap would make more tank being use. Now its just as bad as batchat spam shit in WGL.


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BurningSeraph #86 Posted 14 June 2018 - 04:39 PM

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View PostMM_is_Broken, on 14 June 2018 - 06:30 PM, said:

I mean there is 50 ? tier 6 tanks in game and bascially they mainly want cromwells or t3485m in a stronghold 

so people actually think 2 out of 50 are good umm hello?

 

 

WG have said in the past they are aware of the fact mid tiers are not as balanced as high tiers, which is where their attention is focused, make of that what you will. The problem WG have is they drag their feet a lot when it comes to balance. KV-5 was talked about this time last year and the conclusion from the Q&A posts I read was they were aware of the under-performance but didn't know where or when to start (Lets not go into that topic here). That brings us to this thread. At the very least some inspiration generated here could strike the members of the balance team and jolt them into balancing the game to a better standard, and hopefully make the overall balance more uniform. There will always be a meta but with better balance comes a wider range of meta things.


Edited by BurningSeraph, 14 June 2018 - 04:40 PM.

Conan, on 01 October 2018 - 08:48 PM, said:

This makes me sad

Zynth #87 Posted 14 June 2018 - 06:36 PM

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View PostMagicalFlyingFox, on 14 June 2018 - 02:24 PM, said:

No thanks, the Chi-Ri is unique enough as it is. Maybe a interclip reload buff would be nice, or a pen buff.

 

Oh god you want sub 1 second interclip? Holy sushi rolls.

 

A pen buff would be nice. In the past I believed the pen was sufficient but the armor around tiers 8 and 9 are starting to get a bit too thick for the Chi Ri to handle.

 

I say give it 170mm AP. Good enough.

 


 

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Vindictus_Maximus #88 Posted 15 June 2018 - 08:03 AM

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View PostMagicalFlyingFox, on 13 June 2018 - 02:13 PM, said:

 

Maybe you should shoot the things sitting still. 

 

  I saw this thread referred to in Reddit and decided to add some input, and get yet another sarcastic comment from you. You are a forum killing troll FlyingFox that preys on new visitors, and the admins here would be wise to ban you from interacting to new members. You are like a parasite that latches onto a forum, sucks the life out of it, and then moves on to a new host. 

 

Seeing I am here, I will add this. Never have I heard mid tier matchmaking being a problem in this game. Like ever. The Elephant in the room is the the +2 matchmaking. Me and my buddies have stopped playing this game, and wont return until we can enjoy a fair fight with +1 matchmaikng

 

IF the powers that be are discussing the +1MM issue, then what is the point of discussing mid tier matchmaking? Because the inevitable introduction  +1 matchmaking will make all discussions here irrelevant.

 

What would be far more constructive Conan, is getting the AC Sentinel, placing a 50% crew in it with no equipment, and playing 30 games just shooting standard ammo. Then  you will get an idea of the problems facing new players to this game. Even with a premium tanks and an being an experience player you will struggle. Then imaging what a noob suffers.

 

If you start buffing the mid tiers, the noobs starting out in low tiers are just going to get murdered even easier.

 

If you want to keep this game alive, you need to make this game attractive to new members.  They are the ones that will spend money on this game and keep you in a job, not the jaded FlyingFoxes of the world that just troll and probably not spend a cent



AlexTheKid72 #89 Posted 15 June 2018 - 08:22 AM

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Tank Name : All

Nation : All

Tier : All

Type : All

Deficiencies : +2 matchmaking

Suggested Improvement : +1 matchmaking


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Ezz #90 Posted 15 June 2018 - 08:38 AM

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View PostVindictus_Maximus, on 15 June 2018 - 10:03 AM, said:

  I saw this thread referred to in Reddit and decided to add some input, and get yet another sarcastic comment from you. You are a forum killing troll FlyingFox that preys on new visitors, and the admins here would be wise to ban you from interacting to new members. You are like a parasite that latches onto a forum, sucks the life out of it, and then moves on to a new host. 

 

Wow, such tears and all from sound advice. If you're having trouble leading moving targets you'll find plenty of stationary ones a lot of the time. Maybe the online world isn't for you if you take straight forward advice as some sort of criticism.

 

As to arty's aim time, as you progress you'll realise it's that way as a balancing method. Having arty that can just play whack a mole was horrible for the game and very few players would want a return to that.

 

View PostVindictus_Maximus, on 15 June 2018 - 10:03 AM, said:

If you start buffing the mid tiers, the noobs starting out in low tiers are just going to get murdered even easier.

The low tiers already get +1 MM for that exact reason. It gives them plenty of worthwhile tanks to learn the basics in. Granted tho as to your example of the sentinel, a new player would have to spend a few moments to learn how crews and premium tanks work in order to get the most out of it.


Edited by Ezz, 15 June 2018 - 08:39 AM.

Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

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The_Salty_Brit_ #91 Posted 15 June 2018 - 10:39 AM

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View PostMM_is_Broken, on 14 June 2018 - 04:30 PM, said:

I mean there is 50 ? tier 6 tanks in game and bascially they mainly want cromwells or t3485m in a stronghold 

so people actually think 2 out of 50 are good umm hello?

 

 

MM is correct, they can collect so much data themselves, which tanks perform the best and which ones are played most often..  scary indeed to ask for players advice, suggestions , feedback is ok of course.. 

 

The problem is (at least on the Asia server) that the spread of ability is quite thin, there are a lot more good players per battle than the EU or NA and especially Russia, which means that worse to average tanks for worse to average players are profoundly inadequate but better players can deal with the outstandingly, so which is it? 

 

The Cromwell, a masterfully quick and supportive tank or a weakly armoured poor dispersion piñata?

 

I agree with Hype and Framson about the Firefly, it could be so much more and its main trait should be the gun, so the difference between the other Shermans should be their gun characteristics, either a big derp, an average joe or a TD boom stick.. It shouldn't be their handling or speed/ ground restrictions, that is just dumb for a tank built on the same chassis. 

 

Same for the Comet, QBs favourite tank, but for most it is a downgrade from the Cromwell, it should be slightly faster and have that extra gun depression with a slightly better pen to cope with tier 9s.. especially the current bunch ..  

 

 

The Archer is a bad tank, running backwards is just so counter intuitive to the way WoT plays, it might have been ok when the gameplay was slower more campy but nowadays, it is a tank that I guess everyone just free XPs past, I personally love British tanks and I only played 2 battles in it..  

 

You broke the Crusader by moving it to a medium, the LT cammo was the main thing it had going for it , at tier 5 its just a joke now, too slow and too big (bad cammo rating) I have to waste an equipment slot for a net and train Concealment for it to be viable. IN A MEDIIUM! Oh and Binos too..  yeah great, have to equip an MT to be the LT it should be.. 

 

In general, there are some very good tanks for the average player, some outlandishly funny Derp tanks for that extra 'fun moment', some tanks that are difficult to adjust to and some very difficult niche tanks which require great skill to do well in, if you look across the Tech Tress, those with more than one tank to choose from offer at least two good playable tanks at tier 6s, although the Brits are slightly lacking, because apart from the Cromwell ALL the other tanks are probably the slowest of their class / tier. 

 

As I have mentioned before in my Blog, their should be a separation between tier 6 and 7, whereas tier 6s NEVER see higher tiers, with the current influx of heavy armoured and 'better than their tech tree counterpart' Premium tanks, playing at tier 6s bottom tier is just as enthusiasm draining as tier 8s are now, most players (who don't frequent the forums, or aren't in a great clan) have only just understood how to play WoT using the vision, and map awareness needed to do well at tier 6s and WG throw them straight under the bus facing Defenders and STGs, heck even my Caernarvon feels mighty in a Tier 6 match up.. 

 

It should be the make or break class, either you stay at tier 6 or you move on to tier 7s and above, and then the balance department could realistically balance things properly. I only ever play my Cromwell in Strongholds, and I rarely play tier 6s (although I really enjoy the Achilles and Firefly) any more because its meh, versus tier 8s is just too depressive. 

 

In my view, the rest are fine, a few slight tweaks here and there, but other than that, it is a class most players don't play any more apart for SHs to make credits in their T-34 85ms or Cromwell Bs (and the odd Rudy).. 

 

 

 

 

 

 



MagicalFlyingFox #92 Posted 15 June 2018 - 12:19 PM

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View PostVindictus_Maximus, on 15 June 2018 - 10:03 AM, said:

 

  I saw this thread referred to in Reddit and decided to add some input, and get yet another sarcastic comment from you. You are a forum killing troll FlyingFox that preys on new visitors, and the admins here would be wise to ban you from interacting to new members. You are like a parasite that latches onto a forum, sucks the life out of it, and then moves on to a new host. 

 

Seeing I am here, I will add this. Never have I heard mid tier matchmaking being a problem in this game. Like ever. The Elephant in the room is the the +2 matchmaking. Me and my buddies have stopped playing this game, and wont return until we can enjoy a fair fight with +1 matchmaikng

 

IF the powers that be are discussing the +1MM issue, then what is the point of discussing mid tier matchmaking? Because the inevitable introduction  +1 matchmaking will make all discussions here irrelevant.

 

What would be far more constructive Conan, is getting the AC Sentinel, placing a 50% crew in it with no equipment, and playing 30 games just shooting standard ammo. Then  you will get an idea of the problems facing new players to this game. Even with a premium tanks and an being an experience player you will struggle. Then imaging what a noob suffers.

 

If you start buffing the mid tiers, the noobs starting out in low tiers are just going to get murdered even easier.

 

If you want to keep this game alive, you need to make this game attractive to new members.  They are the ones that will spend money on this game and keep you in a job, not the jaded FlyingFoxes of the world that just troll and probably not spend a cent

 

Who is this reroll? Hopey? Can't be, its not purple. 

 

Firstly, I haven't actually been here for years complaining about that is wrong with the game on the forums. I haven't even given any suggestions either ever. I also haven't met with WG staff in real life and discussed the state of the game, what is wrong with it and what could be different.

 

Plus all this talk about me not spending on this game...

Oh wait this is also missing the Cent 5/1 since I haven't bothered playing the game since FL. 


Edited by MagicalFlyingFox, 15 June 2018 - 12:25 PM.

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 A. Guy on 02 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

Destroyer of Tier 6 CW... says it all about you.


OutCom #93 Posted 15 June 2018 - 12:43 PM

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View PostMagicalFlyingFox, on 15 June 2018 - 02:19 PM, said:

 

Who is this reroll? Hopey? Can't be, its not purple. 

 

Firstly, I haven't actually been here for years complaining about that is wrong with the game on the forums. I haven't even given any suggestions either ever. I also haven't met with WG staff in real life and discussed the state of the game, what is wrong with it and what could be different.

 

Plus all this talk about me not spending on this game...

Oh wait this is also missing the Cent 5/1 since I haven't bothered playing the game since FL. 

 

Only 397 games in the 34-3? That's incredibly dissapointing

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mttspiii #94 Posted 15 June 2018 - 01:04 PM

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View PostKentravyon, on 13 June 2018 - 12:11 PM, said:

Nothing has stalled me more than this tank, I've gone and ground out multiple lines to tier 10 after trying it and still don't want to touch it.
Tank Name: Churchill VII

Nation: UK

Tier: 6

Type: Heavy

Deficiencies: Mobility, gun depression, alpha

Suggested Improvements: Improve on 1 or 2 of the deficiencies. This tank is slower than the O-I and when it reaches the front line noone cares. With the weakest tier 6 HT gun you'd think it would at least be flexible but it only has 4 degrees gun dep. The low alpha is only a problem because you can't chase enemies faster than they reverse.

  • 35km/h top speed with 12 or 13 hp/t
  • at least 6 degress gun depression over the front and at least 8 over the sides
  • If it was only getting a weapon improvement it would need a 20-pdr

I would write one for the black prince as well but I haven't yet had the displeasure of playing it.

 

Black Prince changes? Allow me:

 

Tank Name: Black Prince
Nation: UK

Tier: 7

Type: Heavy

Deficiencies: Effective armor, DPM, penetration

Suggested Improvements:

- Remove the tracks weakspot on all Churchills (and B1, and B2...). I mean, yeah, tracks aren't really armor-grade material, but the front idler wheel is fat enough to add more than just 20mm effective spaced armor.

- Give it ~2.2-2.4k raw DPM to be similar to Caernarvon, or an "improved" APCR-spamming 17-pdr with 200-230 pen to be similar to the Matilda's Mk.X-B.

- Or give it an extra turret module to grind. I like grinding turrets :P By that I mean, an early Centurion turret to let it mount a 20-pdr maybe.

- More roof armor, so FV304's don't bomb it so hard

- Top speed increase for comfiness. It doesn't get the AT-series' armor profile anyway.


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mttspiii #95 Posted 15 June 2018 - 01:24 PM

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Tank Name: TOG II*
Nation: UK

Tier: 6

Type: Heavy

Deficiencies: HP, DPM

Suggested Improvements:

- Firefly (1915 DPM) gets better DPM than TOG II* (1800 DPM), when TOG II* gets a dedicated Challenger (2300 DPM) turret unlike Firefly's twist-and-pack slapdash work. Increase DPM to 1950-2300 DPM

- More new tanks has left the TOG II* unable to cope with the changing meta. HP increase to 1500-1800 should fix that nicely, as well as keep the TOG II*'s reputation intact.

 

Yeah this probably means TOG II* will lose preferential matchmaking when set up with 2300 DPM and 1800 HP, but heh.


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Mother_Of_All_Rommel #96 Posted 15 June 2018 - 01:42 PM

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View Postmttspiii, on 15 June 2018 - 01:24 PM, said:

Tank Name: TOG II*
Nation: UK

Tier: 6

Type: Heavy

Deficiencies: HP, DPM

Suggested Improvements:

- Firefly (1915 DPM) gets better DPM than TOG II* (1800 DPM), when TOG II* gets a dedicated Challenger (2300 DPM) turret unlike Firefly's twist-and-pack slapdash work. Increase DPM to 1950-2300 DPM

- More new tanks has left the TOG II* unable to cope with the changing meta. HP increase to 1500-1800 should fix that nicely, as well as keep the TOG II*'s reputation intact.

 

Yeah this probably means TOG II* will lose preferential matchmaking when set up with 2300 DPM and 1800 HP, but heh.

might as well bumb it to tier 7 and become slow tiger1 :D


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legionary2099 #97 Posted 16 June 2018 - 08:19 PM

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Tank Name: M4A3E8

Nation: USA

Tier: VI

Type: Medium

Deficiencies: Lacklustre to down right terrible penetration

Suggested Improvements: Give it 10% more penetration so that it could reliably penetrate the side of most tier 8 heavy without spamming gold. This tank esp struggle to flank since it speed up quite slowly and tier 7-8 heavy are quite mobile for their size.

 

Tank Name:ARL V39 + Somua SAu 40

Nation:French

Tier:VI + IV

Type: Tank Destroyer

Deficiencies: Large size and weak armor.

Suggested Improvements: Everything about these tanks scream hiding lol in bush. However , the tumor make it extremely hard to hide , and gun depression dont mean jack when the tumor on top of it is prominent as a weak spot. Give the tumor a chance to bounce medium guns if it is angled.

 

 

Tank Name: T-34-100

Nation:Czech

Tier: VII

Type: Medium

Deficiencies: Absurdly terrible soft stats. Very static support tank

Suggested Improvements: This tank is very weird as it only get -5 depression and its horrible soft stats ensure that it cant snap shot for otherwise a very good gun. I suggest giving it a -6 or -8 depression so that it could atleast hide its tier VI level of medium armor. Or alternatively , reduce its dispersion during movement so that it could actually flank effectively.

 

 

Tank Name: T25/2

Nation: USA

Tier: VII

Type: Tank Destroyer

Deficiencies: a low HP medium tank is the correct description

Suggested Improvements: Give it a better gun. Give the 90mm more RoF and penetration capability , atleast enough to dent heavy tanks LFP effectively. Right now most heavy tank LFP can laugh it off quite easily.

 

Tank Name: SU-152

Nation:USSR

Tier: VII

Type: Tank Destroyer

Deficiencies: The 152mm derp gun is too strong and is optimum on the tank , the 122mm is not competitive

Suggested Improvements: The derp gun should be a choice , but make the 122mm actually a viable option to mount on the tank by give it 10%-15% more penetration so that it could challenge tier VIII heavy LFP. Right now with a bit of angle , most tier VIII can bounce reliably even gold round from the 122mm


Edited by legionary2099, 16 June 2018 - 08:28 PM.


Sir_Direkin #98 Posted 17 June 2018 - 01:10 AM

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View PostFramFramson, on 13 June 2018 - 08:45 AM, said:

I dunno, I have never once ever felt threatened by a DW2 in this game. not that I play against T4s that often, but when I see a Douchewagon my usual reaction is "Yippee! Free XP!"

 

That's pretty much my reaction when I see one of those as well. What's it going to do? Bounce your shots? Pfft! It's possible if you're in a:

 

Tank Name: M5 Stuart

Nation: USA

Tier: 4

Type: LT

Deficiencies: The 37mm guns.

Suggested Improvements: This tank is a joke, right? Unless it's shooting at arty, or the back of a Luchs, it has a hard time reliably penning anything. The Chinese M5A1 Stuart with the 47 mm gun is lightyears ahead in competetiveness, especially in tier VI matches. If the two aforementioned tanks were to go head to head, the outcome will be the same every time. Why not give it the same gun?

 

Tank Name: Sturer Emil

Nation: German Reich

Tier: 7

Type: TD

Deficiencies: German accuracy.

Suggested Improvements: For a sniper/support tank that's supposed to be out of sight and hide in the bushes, etc, the accuracy of the 128 mm gun is absolutely terrible. To offset the poor accuracy it's necessary to get much closer to the target, which negates the whole point of having a stealthy glass cannon (not to mention that it's slow and has poor traverse speed - attributes that aren't usually an issue when it's not played as an assault gun). The ammo capacity is also rather limited for something that couldn't hit the side of a barn.

 

And just for something tongue in cheek:

 

Tank Name: The Shameless

Nation: Japan

Tier: 8

Type: HT

Deficiencies: It exists.

Suggested Improvements: Remove.


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azmania3000 #99 Posted 17 June 2018 - 05:36 AM

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Tank Name: T67

Nation: USA

Tier: 5

Type: TD

Deficiencies: Played by completely toxic seal-clubbers with over 10k games in one tank..........that never put 1 cent into the game

Suggested Improvements: Restrict turret traverse to 60 degrees, reduce power/weight

 

I've seen some players with 15k+ battles in this one tank.................

 

If you really want to fix mid-tiers you must break this tank so that ******************************* with 8 perk crews give new players a chance to discover this game

 

P.S: Why does the comet's 17 pounder do less damage than the firefly?


Edited by azmania3000, 17 June 2018 - 05:48 AM.


Sir_Direkin #100 Posted 17 June 2018 - 05:45 AM

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View Postazmania3000, on 17 June 2018 - 05:36 AM, said:

I've seen some players with 15k+ battles in this one tank.................

 

I've seen a player with 30k+ battles in that tank, out of a total of 48k battles. No one can convince me someone likes a tank that much. That is pure stat padding.

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