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Status Update—Fixes to Preferential Matchmaking Feedback Thread

no pref mm removed!

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Profanisaurus #101 Posted 30 July 2018 - 10:00 AM

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But think how much people would spend to avoid grinding a tier 8s vs Defenders, Polish Defenders, Lorraines, Progettos, Patriots, Skorp Gs, S1s, Fake tanks, Libertes etc.  No one will play anything else.

Ezz #102 Posted 30 July 2018 - 10:03 AM

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View PostProfanisaurus, on 30 July 2018 - 12:00 PM, said:

But think how much people would spend to avoid grinding a tier 8s vs Defenders, Polish Defenders, Lorraines, Progettos, Patriots, Skorp Gs, S1s, Fake tanks, Libertes etc.  No one will play anything else.

 

It begs the question whether anyone has any data on tanks used in FL. I'm guessing things like the T34-2 weren't all that common...

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_EzioAuditore_ #103 Posted 30 July 2018 - 11:34 AM

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I ground the amx 65t is-m t28 proto and t28 in frontlines lol. Was better than in randoms. Thank god i ground most shitty t8s before the 3 5 7 MM, so the only one i have left are spg, the chinese td line and the itialian line(which i am at t9 now)

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ksthegreat91 #104 Posted 30 July 2018 - 11:40 AM

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Question is, when will be even be able to take the new upgrades out for a test drive?

 

Don't want WG to drag this out like the MM "fix"



FramFramson #105 Posted 30 July 2018 - 12:56 PM

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View PostEzz, on 29 July 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

 

It begs the question whether anyone has any data on tanks used in FL. I'm guessing things like the T34-2 weren't all that common...

 

Considering how many rentals we saw and the fact that most pubbies died a lot, you could see pretty much any T8 tank eventually.

 

You guys need to remember even for pubbies who've gotten to T8, many of them only have a few T8s. Lots of new, casual, cheapskate, or rubbish players were out there just using whatever they had.


Edited by FramFramson, 30 July 2018 - 12:59 PM.

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FramFramson #106 Posted 30 July 2018 - 12:58 PM

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Also, the Defender was reeeeallly not that great in FL. Hell, I had a better time in the AMX M4 49 usually. The Defender can't shoot anything that isn't right in front of it and it is just too damn slow (not that that stopped some other people from playing their, VK 100s, FakerMausers, O Hos, etc.).

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Puggsley #107 Posted 30 July 2018 - 01:42 PM

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View PostAstorias, on 27 July 2018 - 10:51 AM, said:

I did came across lots of alpine tigers and t-34-3 in frontline. And is-6 too.

 

T59's were there as well.

Dieselnuts #108 Posted 30 July 2018 - 02:13 PM

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View PostFramFramson, on 30 July 2018 - 02:58 PM, said:

Also, the Defender was reeeeallly not that great in FL.

 



morisurari #109 Posted 30 July 2018 - 05:21 PM

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The PMM problem is about what? 10 or 15% of the players? The MM problem is about the 100% of the players. Wargaming fix the second!


I am actually playing most of the time Tier 3 games, to be sure to play against no more than one Tier higher tanks. It is not always funny, but I feel to have chances to survive, do some damage and contribute to a victory. Every time I jump on a 4 or 5 or 6 games (I am a noob with only one Tier 7 tank) it's a nightmare, 80% of the time a bottom Tier. When I am in a spotter LT it is still manageable, in a MT is the worst experience and in a HT my only job is to try desperately to keep the position staying alive.

Wargaming, do you really think this kind of sensation will push people to play more higher Tier games? It is like you are limiting the potential new players to less than 1/3 of the tech three. Will this help you to increase your business?

The answer is NO. And the only solution is the 15/0 Matchmaking (yes, I don't care to wait a couple of minutes more). Not a big issue to manage technically, for sure nothing that will need the development team to work for more than one week.
 

Conan #110 Posted 30 July 2018 - 06:24 PM

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View Postmorisurari, on 30 July 2018 - 05:21 PM, said:

The PMM problem is about what? 10 or 15% of the players? The MM problem is about the 100% of the players. Wargaming fix the second!


I am actually playing most of the time Tier 3 games, to be sure to play against no more than one Tier higher tanks. It is not always funny, but I feel to have chances to survive, do some damage and contribute to a victory. Every time I jump on a 4 or 5 or 6 games (I am a noob with only one Tier 7 tank) it's a nightmare, 80% of the time a bottom Tier. When I am in a spotter LT it is still manageable, in a MT is the worst experience and in a HT my only job is to try desperately to keep the position staying alive.

Wargaming, do you really think this kind of sensation will push people to play more higher Tier games? It is like you are limiting the potential new players to less than 1/3 of the tech three. Will this help you to increase your business?

The answer is NO. And the only solution is the 15/0 Matchmaking (yes, I don't care to wait a couple of minutes more). Not a big issue to manage technically, for sure nothing that will need the development team to work for more than one week.
 

 

 

I hope you read the entire article, if you go near the end, it says:
 

Matchmaker Improvements
In its current state, the matchmaker often fails to ensure proper rotation between the top/middle/bottom of the list. Getting matched at the same position for several battles in a row slows down progression and degrades the overall experience for absolutely all vehicles. Unfortunately, simply tweaking the current algorithm won’t fix it.

We tried to artificially lower the probability of getting preferential Premiums in +1 Tier and same-tier battles. However, this created more problems by increasing the number of single-tier battles and waiting times for not only Tier VIII and IX but tanks tiered VI-X.

So we’re looking into redesigning the underlying matchmaker rules to improve 3/5/7, 10/5, and 15 template distribution. This will aim to prevent cases of spending 80% of in-game time in 3/5/7 battles at the bottom of the list.

As you can understand, to find the optimal solution will take some time (about half a year) and we ask for your patience. We have already laid down a plan and work on the matchmaker is underway. We will give more information when we have it in a separate article, so keep an eye out.

==

So we are fixing "the second"

Also a zero tier spread is not the only solution. Sure, you don't care a couple more minutes of waiting time, but have you seen how many people today are complaining about not being able to get a game in a timely manner? Yes, I agree, Frontlines was good, but it was designed for that. Tier 3 Frontlines wouldn't be as fun. Okay, maybe for the first few games.
I am not saying that 15 template matchmaking is not a solution but it is not the only solution. 


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morisurari #111 Posted 30 July 2018 - 06:47 PM

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View PostConan, on 30 July 2018 - 06:24 PM, said:

I hope you read the entire article, if you go near the end, it says:

 

Matchmaker Improvements
In its current state, the matchmaker often fails to ensure proper rotation between the top/middle/bottom of the list. Getting matched at the same position for several battles in a row slows down progression and degrades the overall experience for absolutely all vehicles. Unfortunately, simply tweaking the current algorithm won’t fix it.

We tried to artificially lower the probability of getting preferential Premiums in +1 Tier and same-tier battles. However, this created more problems by increasing the number of single-tier battles and waiting times for not only Tier VIII and IX but tanks tiered VI-X.

So we’re looking into redesigning the underlying matchmaker rules to improve 3/5/7, 10/5, and 15 template distribution. This will aim to prevent cases of spending 80% of in-game time in 3/5/7 battles at the bottom of the list.

As you can understand, to find the optimal solution will take some time (about half a year) and we ask for your patience. We have already laid down a plan and work on the matchmaker is underway. We will give more information when we have it in a separate article, so keep an eye out.

==

So we are fixing "the second"

Also a zero tier spread is not the only solution. Sure, you don't care a couple more minutes of waiting time, but have you seen how many people today are complaining about not being able to get a game in a timely manner? Yes, I agree, Frontlines was good, but it was designed for that. Tier 3 Frontlines wouldn't be as fun. Okay, maybe for the first few games.
I am not saying that 15 template matchmaking is not a solution but it is not the only solution. 

 

Thanks for the clarifications,
but six months is an eternity... do you think that after 12 months of complaining (this is another thing that people says here) 6 months more are very few? No, it is not.
 
Regarding the MM probably I was ending my post in the wrong way. 15/0 is the best solution from my point of view, but at least a +/- 1 Tier game is enough to reduce the stress.

Another suggestion is to give the users the faculty to decide if they want to play "quickly" or wait: the only thing we need is a setting option where you can flag or not the "quickly matchmaking" radio button. Not easy enough?
 

Conan #112 Posted 30 July 2018 - 06:56 PM

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View Postmorisurari, on 30 July 2018 - 06:47 PM, said:

 
Regarding the MM probably I was ending my post in the wrong way. 15/0 is the best solution from my point of view, but at least a +/- 1 Tier game is enough to reduce the stress.

Another suggestion is to give the users the faculty to decide if they want to play "quickly" or wait: the only thing we need is a setting option where you can flag or not the "quickly matchmaking" radio button. 
 

 

Very interesting suggestions, I'll make sure to include that in my reports. It will include an additional complexity to the matchmaker which may or may not be worth it. But that is now the point of our new direction, test stuff, find what works. I understand that 6 months is a long time. Development takes time and the dev team not working solely on the MM. It's a priority but it should not stop the development of other things that we have planned for this year. 

I don't mean to make things not serious but in programming, the moment you fix one thing, there more than a good chance that you break 2 other things along the way. Bad coding? Maybe but we're all human. 


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morisurari #113 Posted 30 July 2018 - 07:13 PM

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View PostConan, on 30 July 2018 - 06:56 PM, said:

 

Very interesting suggestions, I'll make sure to include that in my reports. It will include an additional complexity to the matchmaker which may or may not be worth it. But that is now the point of our new direction, test stuff, find what works. I understand that 6 months is a long time. Development takes time and the dev team not working solely on the MM. It's a priority but it should not stop the development of other things that we have planned for this year. 

I don't mean to make things not serious but in programming, the moment you fix one thing, there more than a good chance that you break 2 other things along the way. Bad coding? Maybe but we're all human. 

 

Thanks for your answer,
I work with developers and I know what you are talking about. You have a point. But consider this is a serious issue for many players and probably it needs a little bit more effort than other things (like PMM, to mention one).

You are very kind to answer to all my doubts and so I want to ask you one more thing: how long does it takes to solve the "80% of the time bottom Tier" issue? Are we talking about the same six months or are we talking about a simpler issue to solve in a reasonable time?

The_average_tanker #114 Posted 30 July 2018 - 07:56 PM

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View Postmorisurari, on 30 July 2018 - 04:43 PM, said:

 

Thanks for your answer,
I work with developers and I know what you are talking about. You have a point. But consider this is a serious issue for many players and probably it needs a little bit more effort than other things (like PMM, to mention one).

You are very kind to answer to all my doubts and so I want to ask you one more thing: how long does it takes to solve the "80% of the time bottom Tier" issue? Are we talking about the same six months or are we talking about a simpler issue to solve in a reasonable time?

 

Well my weekend went like this

 

First session. 10 battles 8 victories.

Second session: 10 battles 2 victories

Third session: 10 battles 8 victories.

Fourth session: 10 battles 4 victories.

Some sessions were solo and some were in a platoon (easily identifiable) and in the platoon i was always bottom tier. i hope the fix comes soon, because weekend + platoon is becoming an exercise in frustration.


 

 

 

 


MagicalFlyingFox #115 Posted 30 July 2018 - 07:58 PM

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View PostTheBudgiesmuggler, on 30 July 2018 - 09:16 AM, said:

Just curious the M6A2E1 standard AP is 198 pen how much more effective with it be against tier 10's with a piss weak 4 HP increase?

 

Good thing you won't see tier 10s.

 

Maybe you should stick to clicking, because reading is just like aiming for weakspots. 

View PostFramFramson, on 30 July 2018 - 02:58 PM, said:

Also, the Defender was reeeeallly not that great in FL. Hell, I had a better time in the AMX M4 49 usually. The Defender can't shoot anything that isn't right in front of it and it is just too damn slow (not that that stopped some other people from playing their, VK 100s, FakerMausers, O Hos, etc.).

Defender was an RRRRRRRRRRRR right click left click tank. If i wanted to RRRRRRRRRR right click left click I would play the IS-M because I was grinding that. 


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 A. Guy on 02 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

Destroyer of Tier 6 CW... says it all about you.


Conan #116 Posted 30 July 2018 - 08:18 PM

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View Postmorisurari, on 30 July 2018 - 07:13 PM, said:

 

Thanks for your answer,
I work with developers and I know what you are talking about. You have a point. But consider this is a serious issue for many players and probably it needs a little bit more effort than other things (like PMM, to mention one).

You are very kind to answer to all my doubts and so I want to ask you one more thing: how long does it takes to solve the "80% of the time bottom Tier" issue? Are we talking about the same six months or are we talking about a simpler issue to solve in a reasonable time?

 

It will be part of the the six months, however that is for the optimal solution estimate. There is a possibility that during testing we suddenly discover a great combination of fixes that works very well. 
Things can go wrong BUT there are times that things just work... so crossed fingers :) 

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FramFramson #117 Posted 31 July 2018 - 02:45 AM

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View PostMagicalFlyingFox, on 30 July 2018 - 06:58 AM, said:

Defender was an RRRRRRRRRRRR right click left click tank. If i wanted to RRRRRRRRRR right click left click I would play the IS-M because I was grinding that. 

 

It's not like it was totally useless to me, but I only brought it out to contest tough caps. Again, it was just too slow for FL. Mobility was absolute KING in that mode. I ground out my Pantera 44 and if I'd had more time I would have ground out the T32 and AMX 65t as well.

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Puggsley #118 Posted 31 July 2018 - 11:17 AM

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Conan is a change away from having 15 tanks all the time in the mix?

 

Having fewer tanks in each side dramatically changes the game-play by making the corridor effect much less overbearing. It allows lower tier tanks to flank and not be bogged down into frontal engagements with tanks 2 tiers higher. Its almost like a map redesign without the need to spend a lot of resources redesigning maps.

 

I understand there will be costs in terms of server capacity to host more games (?) but it would be interesting to see what the impact would be.  



ksthegreat91 #119 Posted 31 July 2018 - 11:35 AM

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View PostFramFramson, on 30 July 2018 - 06:45 PM, said:

 

It's not like it was totally useless to me, but I only brought it out to contest tough caps. Again, it was just too slow for FL. Mobility was absolute KING in that mode. I ground out my Pantera 44 and if I'd had more time I would have ground out the T32 and AMX 65t as well.

 

Incoming Defender buff.

topshelf #120 Posted 31 July 2018 - 11:47 AM

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View PostConan, on 30 July 2018 - 10:18 PM, said:

 

It will be part of the the six months, ...

 

So 6 months development time? While I’m very supportive of all the improvements that WG are planning to make per the news story, unfortunately I am skeptical. When the new MM templates were introduced, WG said they were introducing functionality to ensure a far more even spread of top bottom and mid-tier battles. 

 

It took a while to find but here’s the original WG notice. Refer to the paragraph just above “Creating a Battle”.  So if this functionality was meant to be introduced 18 months ago, why wasn’t it? And given it’s been promised before, how much faith can we really have that WG will deliver on all the improvements they’ve said they want to implement this time?

 






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