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How would historically overpowered tanks fare in W.O.T nowadays?


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EPIC389 #1 Posted 06 August 2018 - 04:55 PM

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It's undeniable, that World of Tanks nowadays is suffering from constant power creep. 

 

However, I'm currently to gauge just how severe or negligible(depending on your P.O.V) the power creep actually is. 

 

So just how well would historically overpowered tanks(think vehicles like the original iterations of the M48 Patton, T110E4, T57 Heavy, FV215B 183, WFT E-100, pre-nerf Hellcat etc) fare in current W.O.T nowadays? These tanks when they were first released were considered to be the most powerful tanks of their type and tier and by many to be overpowered, leading to their eventual nerfs or removal. How would they fare against the state of power creep and horrible MM nowadays?

 

What are your thoughts.



Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #2 Posted 06 August 2018 - 05:21 PM

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Need to correct you there...

 

183 was never overpowered... Even in the original iteration, it was below par. It was and still is, however, broken, in the sense that even the worst player can do damage in it.

E4 was never even on par

Old Patton was never on par either. New Patton is somewhat ok.

WTF100 was broken, see 183

T57 was good and still is

Hellcat was nerfed hard as heck for sealclubbers. We had people reaching 60-70% in it but 40-50% in other tanks.


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pokeranger24 #3 Posted 06 August 2018 - 05:41 PM

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On that note give T110E5 the old cupola back

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Darksider267 #4 Posted 06 August 2018 - 08:29 PM

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View PostAoyama_Blue_Mountain, on 06 August 2018 - 07:21 PM, said:

Need to correct you there...

 

183 was never overpowered... Even in the original iteration, it was below par. It was and still is, however, broken, in the sense that even the worst player can do damage in it.

E4 was never even on par

Old Patton was never on par either. New Patton is somewhat ok.

WTF100 was broken, see 183

T57 was good and still is

Hellcat was nerfed hard as heck for sealclubbers. We had people reaching 60-70% in it but 40-50% in other tanks.

E4 on release had iirc -10 gun depression, better gun handling and a stronger cupola/cheeks in an alpha TD meta. It basically beat out the then powerful E100 in everything except HP. 

Old Patton had 7.5 rounds a minute when it came in, along with no competition. The meta was a lot less corridor-ey and view range favoured. You had no fast heavies to contest it and tanks like the STB and Cent AX didn't exist either. 

T57 now is meh and arguably worse than the 50b, whereas before it was no contest thanks to stupid gun handling and a lighter meta. 


Edited by Darksider267, 06 August 2018 - 08:51 PM.

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Ezz #5 Posted 07 August 2018 - 07:46 AM

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View PostAoyama_Blue_Mountain, on 06 August 2018 - 07:21 PM, said:

E4 was never even on par

View PostDarksider267, on 06 August 2018 - 10:29 PM, said:

E4 on release had iirc -10 gun depression, better gun handling and a stronger cupola/cheeks in an alpha TD meta.

 

It was for about a week plus it had a stupid good turret. Then it was nerfed. Ah the good old days when WG cared about balance rather than only revenue.


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mttspiii #6 Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:33 AM

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View PostEzz, on 07 August 2018 - 07:46 AM, said:

 

Ah the good old days when WG cared about balance rather than only revenue.

 

Reminds me of the D2 that was so OP, WG removed 20 hitpoints from it for balance.

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MagicalFlyingFox #7 Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:47 AM

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View PostEzz, on 07 August 2018 - 09:46 AM, said:

 

It was for about a week plus it had a stupid good turret. Then it was nerfed. Ah the good old days when WG cared about balance rather than only revenue.

 

WG Balans then vs WG balans now.

 

 

"Lets wait 6 months before we slightly nerf it so its still head and shoulders better than the best TD in the game and a better heavy than almost all heavies"


Edited by MagicalFlyingFox, 07 August 2018 - 10:47 AM.

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 A. Guy on 02 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

Destroyer of Tier 6 CW... says it all about you.


CelestiaLudenberg #8 Posted 07 August 2018 - 12:46 PM

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What I want to see is some of the nerfs undone.

 

The E4 could keep its armor/gun handling, but get the damage put back to 850 and buff the gun depression to -8° to make it on par with the E3. Differentiate it from other 750 alpha tanks, and especially the upcoming 60TP, which is better in every way other than penetration. 

 

Give the Tiger II/Panther II/Jagdpanther II/Jagdtiger the 870hp engine back, and give the E-50 and E-75 the 1200hp engine back.

 

Hellcat should get either the hull or turret traverse buffed, but not both as it is still a strong tank, preferably the hull traverse.

 

Give the E-100 more gun depression as -7° on such a tall tank is closer to -5° effective, and give it the historical Maus II turret armor of 250/200/200 rather than the current 250/150/150 so you can actually angle against lolpen ammo.

 

FV215B 183 is fine, it is broken asf but not overpowered.

 

WT E-100 today would be broken still, but more 'balanced' due to there being all the derp tanks that could 2 shot it, and WG for some reason nerfed the hull armor to be the same as the GW E-100 so it is only 80mm meaning it is just a giant bag of paper that has no camo, making it extremely easy to kill, would basically play like the FV 4005 II but with none of the mobility.


Edited by CelestiaLudenberg, 07 August 2018 - 12:47 PM.

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Muds_Revenge #9 Posted 08 August 2018 - 03:25 PM

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The russian tanks and their clones are doing just fine, thanks for asking.

 



 


mttspiii #10 Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:35 AM

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View PostMuds_Revenge, on 08 August 2018 - 03:25 PM, said:

The russian tanks and their clones are doing just fine, thanks for asking.

 

Type 59 did lose out on the meta

T-34-2 had its shining moments in the brief time that the T-34-3 and T-44 had awful 122mm guns.

T-22sr was supposedly flat out OP, but WG took a sledgehammer approach to rebalancing it. The pubs TK-ing them drove a few more nails in the coffin.

 

 


Edited by mttspiii, 09 August 2018 - 01:36 AM.

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Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #11 Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:25 AM

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Type 59 lost from meta creep but won it back from 357

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MagicalFlyingFox #12 Posted 09 August 2018 - 03:11 PM

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View PostCelestiaLudenberg, on 07 August 2018 - 02:46 PM, said:

What I want to see is some of the nerfs undone.

 

The E4 could keep its armor/gun handling, but get the damage put back to 850 and buff the gun depression to -8° to make it on par with the E3. Differentiate it from other 750 alpha tanks, and especially the upcoming 60TP, which is better in every way other than penetration. 

 

Give the Tiger II/Panther II/Jagdpanther II/Jagdtiger the 870hp engine back, and give the E-50 and E-75 the 1200hp engine back.

 

Hellcat should get either the hull or turret traverse buffed, but not both as it is still a strong tank, preferably the hull traverse.

 

Give the E-100 more gun depression as -7° on such a tall tank is closer to -5° effective, and give it the historical Maus II turret armor of 250/200/200 rather than the current 250/150/150 so you can actually angle against lolpen ammo.

 

FV215B 183 is fine, it is broken asf but not overpowered.

 

WT E-100 today would be broken still, but more 'balanced' due to there being all the derp tanks that could 2 shot it, and WG for some reason nerfed the hull armor to be the same as the GW E-100 so it is only 80mm meaning it is just a giant bag of paper that has no camo, making it extremely easy to kill, would basically play like the FV 4005 II but with none of the mobility.

 

There was a reason for the nerfs. Do we really need even more powercreep to make tier 8s worse against tier 10s?

 

 


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 A. Guy on 02 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

Destroyer of Tier 6 CW... says it all about you.


mttspiii #13 Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:52 PM

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View PostMagicalFlyingFox, on 09 August 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

 

There was a reason for the nerfs. Do we really need even more powercreep to make tier 8s worse against tier 10s?

 

 

 

Looking back, the only reason tier 8's were playable back then was because arty smashed tier X and tier 8 alike. Even with 3/5/7 MM, tier 8 could survive the current MM hellscape if it could rely on pre-8.6 arty smacking tier X'es for 2k.

 

As for the per-tank wishlist:

E4 definitely needs the gun depression, but can do without the 850 alpha or such

Vanilla 268 deserves 850 alpha though

E 100 is fine; WG did test historical armor layouts (excellent side armor) on VK100, Mauschen, VK168, and realized that (in-game) side armor is maybe even more important than front armor (except for IX Obj 257 turd that's more balanced for tier 8 than in-game 252U)

Hellcat...should keep its reverse speed nerf

T67 needs a nerf. Big-time. Drop its skill ceiling by shaving off its firing or moving camo, or acceleration.

German tanks maybe can use the better engines. Not like it's going to make them suddenly OP, but at least it will make them ram-mier.


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Puggsley #14 Posted 10 August 2018 - 10:32 AM

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View Postmttspiii, on 08 August 2018 - 05:35 PM, said:

 

Type 59 did lose out on the meta

T-34-2 had its shining moments in the brief time that the T-34-3 and T-44 had awful 122mm guns.

T-22sr was supposedly flat out OP, but WG took a sledgehammer approach to rebalancing it. The pubs TK-ing them drove a few more nails in the coffin.

 

 

 

It wasn't WG that was sledgehammering T22s in the games I came across one.....

 

It seemed like there was a kill on sight (both enemy and ally) policy there for a while.



Run_Away_Brave_sir_Robin #15 Posted 13 August 2018 - 01:19 PM

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View PostPuggsley, on 10 August 2018 - 02:32 PM, said:

 

It wasn't WG that was sledgehammering T22s in the games I came across one.....

 

It seemed like there was a kill on sight (both enemy and ally) policy there for a while.

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Iv seen many bad(literal) players tk t22s when i saw them pop up a month or so ago.


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