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Premium Ammo , how to stop the 2 Key = skill plague


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MageNZ #1 Posted 08 August 2018 - 10:31 PM

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The best answer I can personally come up with too balance the use of premium, "Gold", rounds in WoTs is actually simple and based on a fair amount of realism.

 

During WW2 the various nations who fielded tanks in large numbers developed special anti-tank rounds to deal with heavily armored enemy vehicles.

 

A classic example of such a round was the alloy metal rounds used by the Allies and Germany.

 

Both sides couldn't afford to use these rounds exclusively due to the scarcity of the materials used e.g: nickel-chromium-molybdenum and silicon-manganese-chromium-based alloys.

 

So a small percentage of a Tanks entire ammo load would be a few of these special rounds.

 

For the game I would like to suggest that each tank type be allocated a percentage of total round carried as a maximum number of premium rounds e.g: Tortoise carries a total of 50 rounds so as a TD it could have say 10% of its total ammunition allocation as premium, so at max five rounds.

 

My personal suggestions would be: 

  Heavy Tanks: 20%

  Medium Tanks: 15%

  Tank Destroyers: 10%

  Light Tanks: 20%

  SPG: 10%

It might be that each individual tank might have a slight variation based on historical data.

 

Feed back is appreciated.... cynical derision not so much.



Sir_Direkin #2 Posted 08 August 2018 - 10:51 PM

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It's equivalent to asking WG to cut down their revenue. It's not going to happen, even for the sake of player retention. And if you want to go for historical accuracy, tank on tank battles wasn't that common to begin with; the Germans made extensive use of combined arms tactics.

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mttspiii #3 Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:43 AM

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View PostMageNZ, on 08 August 2018 - 10:31 PM, said:

My personal suggestions would be: 

  Heavy Tanks: 20%

  Medium Tanks: 15%

  Tank Destroyers: 10%

  Light Tanks: 20%

  SPG: 10%

It might be that each individual tank might have a slight variation based on historical data.

 

Feed back is appreciated.... cynical derision not so much.

 

Each individual tank should have a slight variation depending on its ammo capacity and gun specs.

For example, a Type 5 HT can still go full premium ammo with 20%, but an FV4005 will only have 2 HESH. That ain't working right.

 

Also, how about those compensating for a stock gun grind? We spam premium ammo in a stock ARL v39 because tier III stock gun can't even pen a bottom-tier LT reliably.


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JOC469 #4 Posted 09 August 2018 - 04:10 AM

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Nope. Try using the search function next time too.

 

View PostSir_British, on 11 February 2016 - 11:24 PM, said:

joc469, the great purporter of  'name-changer' and 'clan-leaver' all hail the JOC469!


Ezz #5 Posted 09 August 2018 - 06:11 AM

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Best way to not be bothered by premium ammo is not expecting your armor to hold up in every situation. 

Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

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BrutalOlyx #6 Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:21 AM

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My problem is the opposite. How to stop all these players spamming games with tanks that have almost impenetrable armor.

 

Look at the tanks predominately chosen in ranked battles this season. Could you imagine if everyone had to shoot standard rounds - no HE or HEAT. It would be a long drawn out bounce fest.

 

People play this game to shoot up tanks, not bounce shots.



Mother_Of_All_Rommel #7 Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:30 PM

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Why press 2 when you can press 3? Cheaper and always do dmg.. well, not always, but you get the idea.

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MagicalFlyingFox #8 Posted 09 August 2018 - 03:10 PM

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I'm sure this will stop the Chrysler K owners with their 120 shells of ammunition. 

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 A. Guy on 02 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

Destroyer of Tier 6 CW... says it all about you.


LightningMan #9 Posted 09 August 2018 - 04:50 PM

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You do realise you still have to aim when shooting prem rounds right? It's not as simple as auto-aim and win.

Limiting tanks to x amount of prem rounds would never work. It would give all super heavies an indirect buff and tanks with higher ammo counts.

 

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Ket101 #10 Posted 09 August 2018 - 05:03 PM

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor-piercing_shell

 

Not sure why the OP goes on about those alloys rather than the tungsten and tungsten carbide that was used for high velocity penetrators during WWII.  And are still used in some guns rather than more exotic materials.



phutev #11 Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:59 PM

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Remove premium ammo as a type or change to the higher pen/lower damage model to retain diversity.

 

Change silver ammunition to a level set by tier by MM battle tier to an equivalent of whatever damage for standard rounds for that tank class. Say average damage at battle tier  x1.5 for MT, x2.0 for HT, x1.7 for TD's, x1.2x for LT's 0.0 for SPG

 

All ammunition used above that is charged at premium rates.

 

Everybody pays wins.



Ezz #12 Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:04 PM

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Some excellent ideas coming through. Here's one, back in WW2 they used to give the better soldiers more of the good stuff and leave the shittier equipment for the scrubs. This should definitely be modeled in game also with a win rate based scaling of shell prices. Good players would get more access to premium ammo that would also be cheaper for them, while the bads would have to pay extra if they want to carry any (not that most bother with anything other than HE anyway). Because realism makes sense!

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Mother_Of_All_Rommel #13 Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:06 PM

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View Postphutev, on 09 August 2018 - 07:59 PM, said:

 

All ammunition used above that is charged at premium rates.

That gone to far lol, with tons of f2p plyr now compared to p2w, the game will be ded in weeks.


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phutev #14 Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:09 PM

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Just send out a free WG branded tap and pay receiver as a gesture of goodwill.

 

The W for 'win' and G for 'game'


Edited by phutev, 09 August 2018 - 08:09 PM.


ChocolateThief #15 Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:59 PM

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Do you want this in clan wars as well?

 

I personally feel like premium ammo has a place in the game, like people previously mentioned in the forum that war-gaming would never implement this at would mean less revenue for them, and even when using premium ammo you cannot just aim anywhere and win the game, also it allows players to easily grind stock tanks. 

 

Majority of people outside of clan wars do not shoot a large amount of premium ammunition, because it costs too many credits even with a premium account. Of course there are a handful of people who shoot exclusively gold ammunition but that is a minority. Gold ammo already has inherit flaws, APCR in the lower tiers loses a lot of penetration at range, and HEAT ammunition in the higher tiers is useless against spaced armour.

 

The thing is even when people are spamming gold at you, you can still bounce their shells, because more than likely if you were able to bounce their regular ammunition you can still bounce their gold ammunition. 

 

But the biggest reason I feel that gold ammunition has a place in this game is because, when fighting at range, even if you aim at a weakspot, the game is based on RNG as every tank has a specific inaccuracy to its individual gun, so you have a high chance of missing that weak spot at range, so the way to mitigate the RNG is by using gold ammunition. RNG is the backbone of this game, so it cannot be removed, and lastly the players with the highest WN8 will remain at the top regardless of whether or whether not gold ammo exists. 

 

This video provides a great example of what I was talking about and credit to lemmingrush.


Edited by ChocolateThief, 09 August 2018 - 08:59 PM.


mttspiii #16 Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:56 PM

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View PostKet101, on 09 August 2018 - 05:03 PM, said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor-piercing_shell

 

Not sure why the OP goes on about those alloys rather than the tungsten and tungsten carbide that was used for high velocity penetrators during WWII.  And are still used in some guns rather than more exotic materials.

 

Tungsten was rather exotic though; the Germans had a lot of experimental AT guns that were very effective for the time, but discontinued because they use tungsten.

 

View Postphutev, on 09 August 2018 - 07:59 PM, said:

All ammunition used above that is charged at premium rates.

 

German bias; their tanks can ram better than other countries.


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Virtuous_Contract #17 Posted 10 August 2018 - 12:41 AM

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i dont like 25% rng and i like to pen things. bouncing lower plates isnt fun and rng doesnt make game interesting


NameWasStolenStresslevel #18 Posted 10 August 2018 - 08:35 AM

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Gold ammo is so overated by the noobs... So far hasnt seen a single replay of them doing well in a battle just because they pressed the 2 key LOL. Meanwhile HE never bounces and always deal dmg. IS7 hulldown cant be penned by most gold shells in the game, yet fire HE shell at it with anything above 120mm caliber guns and you have magic dmg forcing him out of the hulldown, now fire from a 150mm caliber gun or above and you have easy 300-500 dmg at IS7 turret (but needs to be at specific points in the turret, dont just shot the spaced armor or the is7 gun and then blame me later for not dealing dmg).

 

OF COURSE i am assuming you not being able to pen him because he is hulldown/sidescrappin spamming gold at you, because if thats not the case and he has no cover or its in the open easy to pen with standard or non HE shells, then you are just bad at trading and should get better in the game instead of sitting there getting hit by whatever ammo he is firing coz he is winning the shot trades anyway.

 

But the gold spam is real and sometimes i get annoyed by it too have to admit it, but lets not use this as an excuse for being bad, you can still bounce gold ammo, or simply avoid getting hit again if you think he will spam gold, let him get out of his safe spot to come after you then you will be able to shoot him without firing gold, please just dont spam HE as this is the trully most annoying type of ammo in the game, despite being cheaper than even standard shells in most cases.

 

I play city maps in tier 10 games at ranked without firing a single gold shell in my sheridan, and it has only 236mm of pen in the standard shell... Of course i do fire gold if i have no choice but a maus frontally (with 236mm), which is hard to hit the lower plate when its angled, but you can dmg a type 5 heavy frontally with 236mm standard shell 1 out of 2 attempts, but many people prefer to just load the gold and shoot the bigger spots since they must have slow aim time i guess or they are just gold spammers like many yellow players i face on my daily basis and they are never noticed, very skilled yellow players with 10k battles firing gold at me and still are yellows. Very skill button didnt work out well i guess. 

 

I will fire gold when its needed depending on armor type or spaced armor or distance or other factors like having no time to go back to stadandard ammo type during intense fight, or having to guarantee everysingle shot to pen (ie blind fire or holding a position alone against many enemies) otherwise i just dont understand why fire gold and i think that ammo type is overated, i always absorb so many HEAT gold shells in my paper armor sheridan that it makes me laught.

 

 


Edited by NameWasStolenStresslevel, 10 August 2018 - 08:58 AM.

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Mother_Of_All_Rommel #19 Posted 10 August 2018 - 04:34 PM

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Nvr really bother too when got hit by HEAT in ru251 or leo PT. The tank that dont trade speed for useless 150mm armor plate have nothing to lose against gold.. maybe a bit against type4/5 and arty gold :hiding:.

Edited by Mother_Of_All_Rommel, 10 August 2018 - 04:36 PM.

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51lok #20 Posted 10 August 2018 - 05:32 PM

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I don't personally mind the premium ammo.

Maybe WG can have a special premium ammo rammer, without which player cannot load premium rounds. This would rrduce 1 equipment slot and if someone wants to fire premium they would have to think a bit more about their equip loadout.




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