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Preferential Matchmaking Vehicles in Update 1.2 Discussion


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Conan #1 Posted 05 October 2018 - 01:54 PM

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Hello Everyone,

 

Here's the update to the Pref MM tanks discussions, just follow this link to the news article. We would like to hear your comments on this article. Please discuss as to the changes to the tanks let us know are they enough, not enough, pretty good, or just plain wrong. We appreciate your comments and suggestions. 

 

Thank you so much! 


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FramFramson #2 Posted 05 October 2018 - 02:01 PM

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PMM tanks need more pen, not more armour. More pen helps them deal with higher tiers a bit better, but more armour does nothing but make them even more imbalanced against lower tiers.

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Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #3 Posted 05 October 2018 - 02:05 PM

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Agree with above. With 90% of battles bottom tier, your own armor doesn't matter, while you can't pen higher tiers.

 

While in the lucky 10% you would steamroll the opponent team.

 

More pen helps against higher tiers but doesn't do anything extra against lower tiers.


Edited by Aoyama_Blue_Mountain, 05 October 2018 - 02:06 PM.


ksthegreat91 #4 Posted 05 October 2018 - 02:18 PM

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Looks like the 185 pen is the new 175 pen.

Also don't forget WG is buffing the 5-7 tiers after this so the armor buff is welcome.



geforce_8800gt_512mb #5 Posted 05 October 2018 - 02:24 PM

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View PostConan, on 05 October 2018 - 05:54 AM, said:

Hello Everyone,

 

Here's the update to the Pref MM tanks discussions, just follow this link to the news article. We would like to hear your comments on this article. Please discuss as to the changes to the tanks let us know are they enough, not enough, pretty good, or just plain wrong. We appreciate your comments and suggestions. 

 

Thank you so much! 

 

about all those buff of penet AP stock...... i love it very much, come on bring it to me..... ASAP, WG..... plz.... :medal:

 

but, if m6 mutan have buff of penet ap 204mm, so what about the penet ap of final gun t32 HT or CS GF ......... ?? all of them, still has only penet ap stock 198mm.... :confused:



Ezz #6 Posted 05 October 2018 - 03:37 PM

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Ditch the armor buffs and buff accuracy instead. 

Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

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bandage106 #7 Posted 05 October 2018 - 04:20 PM

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Okay, perhaps I need clarification on this but I'm assuming that these changes aren't going to be included into 1.2 or they're..? If they're then that's a really good start and I'm excited to try some of my tanks again after the changes. 

MagicalFlyingFox #8 Posted 05 October 2018 - 04:26 PM

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How about WG nerf armour and fix MM?

 

*gets thrown out of window*


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 A. Guy on 02 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

Destroyer of Tier 6 CW... says it all about you.


MessyMix #9 Posted 05 October 2018 - 05:52 PM

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Not going to lie, disappointed with the ~180 and not the ~200 that was initially tested. :(

 

View PostMagicalFlyingFox, on 05 October 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

fix MM?

 

Heresy


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sontranduc95 #10 Posted 05 October 2018 - 11:59 PM

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:) KV-5 should at least has 195 pen

Dieselnuts #11 Posted 06 October 2018 - 02:54 AM

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The FCM50T changes are nice, but they don't address my main concern of the vehicle. The bloom/gun handling stats are too high for a 90mm gun. My suggestion would be to buff the dispersion values whilst moving, and hull/turret traverse.

 

Lets compare them with the WZ-111  https://tanks.gg/compare/fcm-50-t?t=wz-111

The base gun handling stats are identical. The WZ trades a slightly slower aim time for way more alpha. The dpm difference is insignificant, not to mention its on a platform that has armour that can handle sitting still and aiming.



mttspiii #12 Posted 06 October 2018 - 12:14 PM

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View PostAoyama_Blue_Mountain, on 05 October 2018 - 02:05 PM, said:

Agree with above. With 90% of battles bottom tier, your own armor doesn't matter, while you can't pen higher tiers.

 

While in the lucky 10% you would steamroll the opponent team.

 

More pen helps against higher tiers but doesn't do anything extra against lower tiers.

 

Agree with them. Especially with the (hOpEfully upcoming) MM fix, these PMM tanks will meet tier 6 & 7 tanks more often, so DPM and armor buffs will make the mid-tier grind way worse.

 

Though I do admit that KV-5 could use even more armor buffs to everything except the R2D2 and turret cupola weakspot; the opposite of the PMM buffs it got. It's still gotta be vulnerable to even some stock tier 6 tanks, but it still has to be a linebreaker tank with few other weaknesses than that.

 

And the poor FCM 50t still needs gun handling or DPM or something to contend in the current meta.


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ksthegreat91 #13 Posted 06 October 2018 - 04:08 PM

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Is there something wrong with the buffs?

Here are the comparisons between Tank GG and your proposed buffs on 112.

aim time 3.26 - 0.4 s = 3 seconds?



bandage106 #14 Posted 06 October 2018 - 04:14 PM

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View Postksthegreat91, on 06 October 2018 - 04:08 PM, said:

Is there something wrong with the buffs?

Here are the comparisons between Tank GG and your proposed buffs on 112.

aim time 3.26 - 0.4 s = 3 seconds

 

You're looking at effective values, not base values. Go to Options > Base Values. 



ksthegreat91 #15 Posted 06 October 2018 - 04:17 PM

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View Postbandage106, on 06 October 2018 - 08:14 AM, said:

 

You're looking at effective values, not base values. Go to Options > Base Values. 

 

Thank you.

Grimshaw #16 Posted 07 October 2018 - 04:29 AM

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Hi Conan,

 

Whilst it is good to hear that Pref's won't be losing that one feature that makes them sought-after, what is the actual problem with MM that makes it so difficult to resolve?

Sorry for being slow, but I simply cannot see what it is that could cause it to be so complex, unless the issue is with the code itself and the way it was originally written and embedded into the core mechanic. If it was something like that, then it would require a complete rebuild of the MM, but even then I cannot see it taking a half-decent development team (BA, Developer and Tester) that long to scope, build, test and release.

FYI, looking for the actual programmatic issue here, not speculation.


Edited by Grimshaw, 07 October 2018 - 04:30 AM.


FramFramson #17 Posted 07 October 2018 - 09:13 AM

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View PostGrimshaw, on 06 October 2018 - 03:29 PM, said:

Hi Conan,

 

Whilst it is good to hear that Pref's won't be losing that one feature that makes them sought-after, what is the actual problem with MM that makes it so difficult to resolve?

Sorry for being slow, but I simply cannot see what it is that could cause it to be so complex, unless the issue is with the code itself and the way it was originally written and embedded into the core mechanic. If it was something like that, then it would require a complete rebuild of the MM, but even then I cannot see it taking a half-decent development team (BA, Developer and Tester) that long to scope, build, test and release.

FYI, looking for the actual programmatic issue here, not speculation.

 

It's not.

 

In fact, worst case, they could revert to a previous MM, since the last one was less awful.

 

To be blunt, they're dragging their [edited] not because it's a programming challenge at all, but because 3/5/7 makes them money by acting as a heavy credit drain on the economy. They're stalling until they can figure out some other way to bleed silver from the players before changing the MM algorithm.

 

 


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RainbowSix_Glaz #18 Posted 08 October 2018 - 12:29 AM

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That's some fair balances for PMM Premium Tanks. But there might be still some of us would complain about nerfs...lul.

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EtTuBuBu #19 Posted 08 October 2018 - 01:00 AM

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I personally would like the Pref MM tank to lose their status of Pref MM , in the current status of meta in WoT . There is no place for the IS-6 , KV-5 or any of those tanks for the matter . Why ? The gun is simply too weak , there may be a blanket buff to most of those tanks but 175 to 186 is still not enough to function properly in battle . Do any of you think 186 base pen is enough to deal with tanks like Object 252U ? Pref MM tanks also see a lot of tier 9 , what then ? You basically become free wn8 to Most tier 9 tanks you see .

 

My closing statement , I rather my Pref MM tank get full match making and get more buff like 200-220 mm of penetration so I don't have to rely on premium shells to make up for the utter lack of base penetration . My opinion is formed playing my T-34-3 in HK and ANZ server .


 


Conan #20 Posted 08 October 2018 - 11:21 AM

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View Postbandage106, on 05 October 2018 - 04:20 PM, said:

Okay, perhaps I need clarification on this but I'm assuming that these changes aren't going to be included into 1.2 or they're..? If they're then that's a really good start and I'm excited to try some of my tanks again after the changes. 

Yes, they will be live in 1.2

 

View PostGrimshaw, on 07 October 2018 - 04:29 AM, said:

Hi Conan,

 

Whilst it is good to hear that Pref's won't be losing that one feature that makes them sought-after, what is the actual problem with MM that makes it so difficult to resolve?

Sorry for being slow, but I simply cannot see what it is that could cause it to be so complex, unless the issue is with the code itself and the way it was originally written and embedded into the core mechanic. If it was something like that, then it would require a complete rebuild of the MM, but even then I cannot see it taking a half-decent development team (BA, Developer and Tester) that long to scope, build, test and release.

FYI, looking for the actual programmatic issue here, not speculation.

Hi Grimshaw, 

While I wouldn't word it as Fram did, it is a combination of player satisfaction, queue times, and player urge to progress. 
So, for example, yes, a higher "tiered" player will tend to spend more so we do want them to go for tier 10. 
But back to the template MM. 3/5/7, should give the best combination of urge to progress and satisfaction. The issue is that the percentage of being bottom is WAY too much from what it was originally designed. A tier 8, for example, based on the model should only spend like ~25% of the time in bottom, but in reality, it's doing ~60-70% having nothing below it. 
We are experimenting on different ways to solve the issue. One of the things we are looking at is decreasing the priority of getting you in a game as fast as possible, instead giving priority to a comfortable match instead. There are also other things we're trying internally that I cannot discuss as of yet. 

This thread is looking at the Pref MM tanks specifically, wanting to keep them relevant in the current state of the game. Theoretically, once the MM is made better, that would make these tanks more than just relevant, but possibly competitive. These tanks are seen as forgotten so we're giving them a little bit of polish to get the rust out and make the people who own them want to play them again. 


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