135 replies to this topic

[Twit_]

Hi, The_Twit here.

 

I have been following the development of the LT-432 (formerly the Obj. 432) for a while, wondering how what at first seems to be an OP tank would be handled at the supertest (and later the common test) level. I guess you can say I am a little bit let down by how this tank has panned out over the month in the supertest.

 

From my perspective, this tank (in its current form) will be broken as a top tier light tank and very competitive as a bottom tier LT.

Why?

The LT-432 is inherently broken as a tier VIII light tank when you compare the tank to its tech tree peers.

 

Rewind back to when the first set of stats were released:

 

That initial set of stats concerns me (via The Daily Bounce). You are suggesting that a tank that has 7 degrees of gun depression, T-100 LT silhouette and ~500dpm advantage over the nearest light tank in the tech tree should be sold!

Going deeper into the gun handling for the initial stats, 4.13s reload is edging on T34 levels of shooting. This is without considering the bonuses that can be applied, like

• food
• gun rammer
• bonds
• crew skills

You could probably reduce this down to say 3.7 secs with some of those boxes ticked, which would raise the DPM to something like 3,000!

 

Some ire was raised at this and soon an updated version of the tank appeared:

 

 

In the video, a clearly capable tanker is able to dominate Westfield as a top tier light tank, scoring 4k damage on its own. 

The statistics were also updated, but I think this seems inadequate.

 

Going over the current stats:

 

Armour

This tank has probably the most comparable armour to the T-100 LT, simply due to the low profile of the tank. That silhouette can only really be compared to the EVEN 90 for its tier, but the two tanks are leagues apart. The EVEN 90 has no armour to compensate for the tiny model and the LT-432 has some pretty troll armour.

Speaking of the T-100, here is the values for the hull and turret armour:

 

I would argue that the LT-432 is better than the T-100 LT tier-for-tier simply because it has to face tier VI tanks. Tier VI-VIII light tanks (and most tanks at the same tier or below) will simply bounce or ricochet their shots off the frontal hull, due to the Soviet angling.

If you looked at the video above, you may recall a Skorpion G bouncing a shell off the turret/hull of the LT-432 .

 

Gun Handling

The 432 has simply the best gun handling for its tier. Simple as that. Here are the stats:

 

Here it is compared to the tech tree tanks:

 

 

The 432 is able to match and outperform all of the tech tree tanks save for penetration. Note the similar gun stats for the LTTB and the 432. Fully kitting the tank out, the reload can be reduced to 3.97 secs. One could argue that this tank is one of the most forgiving light tanks to drive simply because of the armour and the fast reload. Stuff a shot? It's alright, you only have to wait 4 secs for another go!

 

Mobility

The LT-432 has the fastest top speed at 70 km/h, but some of this is balanced out by the relatively bad terrain resistances - from all the weight stemming from that armour.

Of course none of this matters, because you are going to be unloading shot after shot into the enemies with your superior DPM and .34 accuracy, the best of its tier.

 

Physical Impossibilities

One of things about this tank the gun depression. Take a look at the tank side-on. See anything? 

 

The turret simply is too short to allow the elevation from the gun breach when the tank is depressing 7 degrees. 

 

Which is extremely strange, considering the LTTB has 5 degrees of gun depression for something that has a larger turret...
 

---

What does this mean?

• This tank, in its current form, is simply pay-2-win. It is outright better than all the tech tree tanks.
• A player stuck grinding a light tank will inevitably come up against this tank in a top tier matchup, and they will not be able to counter this tank.
• Where's the fun in playing a game where tanks are straight out better because you paid for them?
• Hello tier 8 CW and a statpadders galore!

 

Of course, these things are subject to change.

 

 

So, to summarise:

This tank has better gun handling, DPM, armour, accuracy, and matches all the tier VIII lights for mobility. It is also physically impossible.

 

:/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ezz]

Wait, you're surprised wg would release another p2w premium? Where have you been the last few years? 

[Twit_]

Ezz, on 31 October 2018 - 08:59 AM, said:

Wait, you're surprised wg would release another p2w premium? 

 

I don't think WG is trying to make P2W tanks, I simply don't believe that. I think WG are trying to focus on making competitive tier VIII tanks right now because the tier VIII matchmaking sucks, but it is inadvertently harming the lower tiers, because under this MM template, balancing a tank impacts as much as 5 tiers (i. e. VI-X). None of this would be a problem in the first place if the matchmaking had been tweaked a while back but now we are stuck with tanks like:

• E25
• LT-432 (currently)
• Skorpion
• Patriot
• Caern AX 
• Defender

Which is frustrating really.

[CelestiaLudenberg]

The Caernarvon AX isn't really overpowered, the tech tree Cernarvon is better than it.

 

For the Skorpion G, it is one of those tanks where if a good player is in it, it is overpowered, but in the hands of the average player, it is really no better than most tier 8 TD's.

 

Whereas things like the Patriot and Defender, the average player can still stomp in it because it has both idiot-proof armor, as well as having far better guns than their tech tree counterparts.

 

On the topic of the LT-432, they did nerf the DPM from 2.6k down to like 2.2k iirc, but it is still an extremely overpowered tank, and would actually be considered arguably the best tier 9 light tank if all they did was give it more penetration and health. And don't worry, the SU-130PM is still to come, which is a Skorpion G, but better in every way other than accuracy, which as we know means nothing in this game anyway.

[Aoyama_Blue_Mountain]

Hardly as OP as T92 and Even...

 

Can't aim on the vertical axis? Just engage autoaim and let the long hull receive every shot, preferably in the engine or rear sprocket.

 

Remember people also said STG and French TD are OP yet they are now available in in-game shop.

Edited by Aoyama_Blue_Mountain, 31 October 2018 - 09:40 AM.

[Twit_]

Aoyama_Blue_Mountain, on 31 October 2018 - 09:38 AM, said:

Hardly as OP as T92 and Even...

 

I disagree. The T92 has good gun handling and mobility, the EVEN 90 has the camo rating and the auto-loader....
 

But they don't come near the armour of the LT-432, and the angling of any Russian tank for that matter. The 432 also has the best accuracy of the tier (VIII light tanks), fastest shell velocity with the APCR default, with the ridiculous gun dep. to boot.

For a combat light tank, the 432 is the best at its tier. For a scout? The HWK edges out the T92 with the VR. The EVEN and the T92 benefit from their small size, but they have no armour.

 

Edit: Also just to add on the French TDs, people said the Foch B was OP because it was straight-up better than the Foch 155 in practically every way. 3,100 DPM compared to the 155's 2,300 DPM? Of course peeps thought that the line was OP, due to the added shell capacity in the clips, which promoted double-tracking tanks. However, the Foch B still retained the weak point above the hull, so the TD could still be countered, unlike the Obj. 268 v4's initial release.

Edited by The_Twit, 31 October 2018 - 10:03 AM.

[Ezz]

The_Twit, on 31 October 2018 - 11:07 AM, said:

I don't think WG is trying to make P2W tanks, I simply don't believe that.

And yet...

The_Twit, on 31 October 2018 - 11:07 AM, said:

 

• E25
• LT-432 (currently)
• Skorpion
• Patriot
• Caern AX 
• Defender

 

... plus others that are objectively better compared to their tech tree equivalents.

 

Basically they worked out that balanced tanks don't sell well (eg is3a). OP tanks do (eg defender). Hence the various p2w releases we have and are likely to keep getting as long as people keep buying them.

 

The_Twit, on 31 October 2018 - 11:54 AM, said:

I disagree. 

I wouldn't worry too much about bluey, you never know if he's being serious or taking the piss again with his SBMM nonsense.

Edited by Ezz, 31 October 2018 - 10:01 AM.

[mttspiii]

LT-432 shell velocity is bs.

[Mother_Of_All_Rommel]

The biggest weakness is that this tank looks like crap.

[tekno]

soooo here we are again....

 

 

anyone got (stock)camo ratings for this thing?

 

So now we have the full complement(bar spgs.....perhaps I shouldnt have said that)....of overbuffed premiums for "premium wars"

scorpg vs borsig

defender vs is3

patriot vs t32

and on and on....

 

So now WG are milking average joe CW player....fully....hence the lack of any interest in fixing tierX....why bother letting players grind to tens to get to end game content when you can

just milk the cow directly over and over by releasing broken premium tanks....placing CW now behind a paywall.....

If you arent in a top clan you have no chance in tens....and have to shell out about 200+bucks to be useful/compeditive in "premium wars"

 

(insert prolonged TOTALLY FUTILE invective filled rant)....

 

WG your products other than WoT suck...and have limited global penetration....and you are totally screwing over your long term players....and OPENLY going to P2W....

Gamers are not stupid...and will not stand for this....if you are the owner of WG....well you have the private jet/moonbase already so he wont give a toss.....if you are an employee....start looking for a new job...NOW....having this game on your resume in 2 years(as your last job) .....will result in you working at Macdonalds...dont bother applying for jobs in the gaming industry if you stand by and let this continue.

 

 

 

[pokeranger24]

The_Twit, on 31 October 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

So, to summarise:

This tank has better gun handling, DPM, armour, accuracy, and matches all the tier VIII lights for mobility. It is also physically impossible.

 

Well for starters its a MBT so its quite possible, infact WG nerfed it quite a bit

[Spacecheese]

Game went tits up ages ago with premium tanks being OP - this one is no exception. I don't care that it has less view range, who uses scouts these days when nearly every medium has max view range? Let's not even get started on the [edited] skorp coming out soon TM. 


Profanity, Filter bypass; Content moderated, User sanctioned.

~ElderCyclops

Edited by ElderCyclops, 01 November 2018 - 01:36 PM.

[MagicalFlyingFox]

CelestiaLudenberg, on 31 October 2018 - 12:27 PM, said:

The Caernarvon AX isn't really overpowered, the tech tree Cernarvon is better than it.

 

No, this is where the reason why the CaernAX isn't as bad is because the Caern is even more OP comparatively. 

 

Their guns are stupid. 

 

 

 

 

Regards to OP, just look at the Bobject. The 268 4 well before it made it into the game was slammed by everyone that paid any attention as "OP as heck". It made it through the test server and onto the live server with no changes for over 6 months.

Guess what, it was "OP as heck". No way, we were right as we have been 90% of the time. 

 

 

[CelestiaLudenberg]

MagicalFlyingFox, on 31 October 2018 - 06:48 PM, said:

No, this is where the reason why the CaernAX isn't as bad is because the Caern is even more OP comparatively. 

 

Their guns are stupid. 

 

True, but the playstyle that comes with their guns is really bad for a heavy tank, especially one that is big and slow, whilst also being extremely vulnerable to artillery.

 

They are in the same boat as the Skorpion G in my opinion, in that in the hands of the average player, they are not really any better, it is only in the hands of a good player where they start to pull ahead.

 

That's what my biggest gripe with tanks like the V4 and 430/430U is, in the hands of an average player, they still perform far better than they do in all of their other, supposedly "equal" tanks from other nations.

 

Tanks that have a high skill requirement to be able to be used to their full potential are far better, in terms of game balance, than the ones that take no skill at all to do well in. 

[MagicalFlyingFox]

CelestiaLudenberg, on 31 October 2018 - 07:00 PM, said:

 

True, but the playstyle that comes with their guns is really bad for a heavy tank, especially one that is big and slow, whilst also being extremely vulnerable to artillery.

 

The standard Caern doesn't have that excuse imho. 

And the CaernAX isn't that slow which makes it bloody stupid. It can almost function as a pseudo medium. 

IMHO the CaernAX should be as fast as the Caern or should have a worse reload. The standard Caern just needs a bit less DPM to make it less stupid. 

[mttspiii]

MagicalFlyingFox, on 31 October 2018 - 04:24 PM, said:

The standard Caern doesn't have that excuse imho. 

And the CaernAX isn't that slow which makes it bloody stupid. It can almost function as a pseudo medium. 

IMHO the CaernAX should be as fast as the Caern or should have a worse reload. The standard Caern just needs a bit less DPM to make it less stupid. 

 

What's the difference between the Caern AX and the old 20-pdr Caern btw? DPM? HEAT-proof armor?

Edited by mttspiii, 01 November 2018 - 12:00 AM.

[MagicalFlyingFox]

mttspiii, on 01 November 2018 - 03:00 AM, said:

 

What's the difference between the Caern AX and the old 20-pdr Caern btw? DPM? HEAT-proof armor?

 

DPM, more mobility, spaced armour. Gun handling also improved IIRC.

 

The DPM in it combined with the mobility is insane. 

[The_average_tanker]

Well i may be judged for this, but i am going to say it. i am a noob light tank player. i suck at lights. because of this i am stuck on a lot of the light tank missions. i need something idiot proof to try and complete the missions in. i got the t92 after a lot of deliberation and it is not at all idiot proof. did not buy the even 90, because though it looks stupid, it is not idiot proof.

So WG is really helping me out. if they release this tank in the present broken balanced form i will snap it up on the first day of sale. that low profile means the camo will be ridiculous.the armor looks sexy. The gun is "decent", what is not to like. Knowing WG they may buff it a bit before release.

[_WorldConqueror_]

Minor nitpick but you didn't actually show the gun handling.

[mttspiii]

MagicalFlyingFox, on 01 November 2018 - 08:31 AM, said:

 

DPM, more mobility, spaced armour. Gun handling also improved IIRC.

 

The DPM in it combined with the mobility is insane. 

 

I do remember the first-release Caern where we thought it was an effective and even fun HT, but that it was lacking. It's good, but is one aspect shy of being a really memorable tank; we thought all it needed was DPM but we can't have that because the AT 15's main hat of DPMonster will be gone.

 

I just can't believe that CaeAX would actually be OP especially with 357 and powercreep on a tank with its kind of gameplay. Especially on sprem-heavy servers like ASIA. Maybe on AUS it would be OP, but on ASIA I can't imagine it.