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WG, u have some problems...


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CardinalMite #61 Posted 09 November 2018 - 05:51 AM

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View Postluftkopf, on 08 November 2018 - 11:07 AM, said:

 

I'm the same now too, although the Sturer Emil sucks so bad, it is tempting me to blow a solid chunk of my free xp on unlocking the Rhoomba. If I do that, though, I won't have the free xp for the gun on the JagdTiger. Decisions, decisions.

Funny you mention the Emil I was tempted to cite that as an example of an insane amount of free xp you needed to unlock a necessary component.  WG loves to have these tech tree money sink tanks that virtually force you to spend money just to get past a miserable play experience. There is usually one somewhere around tier 7.

 

IIRC it was about 68k for the top gun which was particularly obnoxious to grind in a slow paper TD where you pretty much are always getting half xp because you won't be self spotting. I feel your pain on that one,

 

I think I stuck it out for about 50k of the xp needed for the top gun and then lost patience and paid for the rest. The Rhoomba was a way better experience, although not sure it made the pain of Emil worth it.


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CelestiaLudenberg #62 Posted 09 November 2018 - 08:23 AM

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The Sturer Emil has literally every checkbox for things that make a tank shit.

 

>Costs a lot of XP to get past and has a horrific stock grind? Check.

>Has literally no armor? Check.

>Slower than 95% of tanks in the game? Check.

>Camo is not good? Check.

>Only good thing, being the gun, has big drawbacks in the form of bad traverse, low ammo count, and derpy handling? Check.

 

The only good thing about the tank is the gun, you really can't argue with 490 alpha at tier 7, especially when it is not a derp gun. But the lack of ammo, combined with how derpy and unreliable it is, make you want to shoot yourself instead. It has 50mm or armor, is slower than all superheavies in the game, the camo is on the low side for TD's, traverse speeds are terrible. On top of all else, with the current meta of buffing the living shit out of the armor of all tanks, the lack f a prem shell means that a lot of current tier 8/9 tanks you can not penetrate with the stupidly high pen anyway.


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SgtGuffey #63 Posted 09 November 2018 - 09:29 AM

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I enjoyed the Sturer Emil, I guess a combination of the gun and the excellent -15° gun depression made for some epic games on the back of the right ridge when the opportunities came but yeah, it was not the best on flat terrain & the mobility kind of sucked...

Edited by SgtGuffey, 09 November 2018 - 09:30 AM.


Sir_Direkin #64 Posted 09 November 2018 - 12:00 PM

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Yup, gotta agree. Had to free exp the top gun as the stock gun was pretty useless, but even then it's so damn derpy that, when combined with the long reload time, makes it quite a headache to play. Surely that tank is a joke? It really has only two things going for it: alpha, and gun depression.

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3HitKO #65 Posted 09 November 2018 - 02:01 PM

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View Post_HoPeY_, on 04 November 2018 - 08:11 AM, said:

 

Take what some players say with a grain of salt. They run plats with good players, low tiers seal clubbing, dudious mods and even had guds drive their accounts.

 

This reply from you... I gonna use this sentence to respond on every self-proclaimed 55 win rate elitist shaming post to me... thanks!

Ezz #66 Posted 09 November 2018 - 02:03 PM

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View Post3HitKO, on 09 November 2018 - 04:01 PM, said:

 

This reply from you... I gonna use this sentence to respond on every self-proclaimed 55 win rate elitist shaming post to me... thanks!

 

So you're salty about better players too? Out of curiosity do you accuse them of cheating too? 

Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

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3HitKO #67 Posted 09 November 2018 - 02:29 PM

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View PostEzz, on 09 November 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

 

So you're salty about better players too? Out of curiosity do you accuse them of cheating too? 

 

Better on papers doesnt mean better in actual performance. I will only respond only if they accuse & public shame me without understand what I am going through is different from them.

I belong to the sub 45% win rate group or worse, my favourite tank is at 40% winrate, but I enjoy playing the tank despite more loss than wins. If I get to 55% winrate, I wont actually show it and shove it to other players face to augment my E-PEN.

There are so many factors which cant be measure by stats alone in a game. Some ppl win, some ppl lose in a game, everybody want to win and be the 55%, but don't want to lose and be the 45%. This kind of thinking is a paradox



Ezz #68 Posted 09 November 2018 - 02:35 PM

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What specifically do you feel isn't measured in the stats?

Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

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3HitKO #69 Posted 09 November 2018 - 03:11 PM

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View PostEzz, on 09 November 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

What specifically do you feel isn't measured in the stats?

 

There are times that a game can be a loss despite your effort of getting good position, good damage, bad position, bad damage, players mood, luck, RNG on dispersion, RNG system on many stuffs, how enemies move against your weaker side, or they walk right into your team's entrapment, how MM behaves yes all these happens despite you working hard to win.

But what I cant stand is the 55%/45% type of stereotypes, nobody want to lose the game and yet they still are trying to assume use this to argue 55% opinion is always superior to 45% by shaming the stats, without providing the sound reply on any kind of WoT-related argument.

 

Of course lets not forget there are ways to boost your winrate, legally, but not ethically enough to use in arguments.



Ezz #70 Posted 09 November 2018 - 03:18 PM

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View Post3HitKO, on 09 November 2018 - 05:11 PM, said:

There are times that a game can be a loss despite your effort of getting good position, good damage, bad position, bad damage, players mood, luck, RNG on dispersion, RNG system on many stuffs, how enemies move against your weaker side, or they walk right into your team's entrapment, how MM behaves yes all these happens despite you working hard to win.

That's what win rate is for. Those who manage all those factors you mention and win get better win rates. It's not like crap RNG, teams etc. are confined to the low win rate players. Everyone gets them, just some manage to cope with them better.

 

View Post3HitKO, on 09 November 2018 - 05:11 PM, said:

But what I cant stand is the 55%/45% type of stereotypes, nobody want to lose the game and yet they still are trying to assume use this to argue 55% opinion is always superior to 45% by shaming the stats, without providing the sound reply on any kind of WoT-related argument.

I agree that each opinion should be taken at face value. The key however is to acknowledge that when it comes to things like winning, someone who wins more's opinion is likely to hold more value that of someone who doesn't. But of course stats alone shouldn't be used to denigrate someone.

 

View Post3HitKO, on 09 November 2018 - 05:11 PM, said:

Of course lets not forget there are ways to boost your winrate, legally, but not ethically enough to use in arguments.

Things like low tier clubbing are pretty easy to identify in anyone's stats. Average tier is a good way to differentiate those who are decent in the upper tiers and those who aren't.


Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

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MagicalFlyingFox #71 Posted 09 November 2018 - 03:30 PM

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You can also just look at a person's most played tanks and derive whether they seal club or not. 

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 A. Guy on 02 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

Destroyer of Tier 6 CW... says it all about you.


3HitKO #72 Posted 09 November 2018 - 03:36 PM

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View PostEzz, on 09 November 2018 - 03:18 PM, said:

That's what win rate is for. Those who manage all those factors you mention and win get better win rates. It's not like crap RNG, teams etc. are confined to the low win rate players. Everyone gets them, just some manage to cope with them better.

 

I agree that each opinion should be taken at face value. The key however is to acknowledge that when it comes to things like winning, someone who wins more's opinion is likely to hold more value that of someone who doesn't. But of course stats alone shouldn't be used to denigrate someone.

 

Things like low tier clubbing are pretty easy to identify in anyone's stats. Average tier is a good way to differentiate those who are decent in the upper tiers and those who aren't.

 

On the 3rd part, sadly to say, even to some so-called 55% winrate players, do employ some methods like platooning/XVM filters to stick with better teammates on papers especially unicrums, to leech on the "stats improvements", more often than, players like me who not using XVM to pick teammates, chose to trust teammates without relying XVM in every battles. Maybe this is part of why I been getting the shorter ends of the straw more often than those 55% elitist.

I believe that if my teammates is working hard to win the game, the flow of the game will turn to our favor thus win the battle, but there are always things we cant control and lose the battle. In this game, if I can see the effort of my teammates, I won't lament about why my team lost the battle, as I can do my part properly as in dealing damage consistently for fire for effects medal as possible.

However there are some tanks which is unique enough not to be judged solely based on, average stats on papers. A lot of elitist failed to realized that. They failed to realized that some tanks are more teammates quality dependent, or they simply choose to ignore these parameters and proceed to shame ppl with their E-PEN.



CelestiaLudenberg #73 Posted 09 November 2018 - 04:25 PM

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View Post3HitKO, on 09 November 2018 - 06:29 PM, said:

 

Better on papers doesnt mean better in actual performance. I will only respond only if they accuse & public shame me without understand what I am going through is different from them.

I belong to the sub 45% win rate group or worse, my favourite tank is at 40% winrate, but I enjoy playing the tank despite more loss than wins. If I get to 55% winrate, I wont actually show it and shove it to other players face to augment my E-PEN.

There are so many factors which cant be measure by stats alone in a game. Some ppl win, some ppl lose in a game, everybody want to win and be the 55%, but don't want to lose and be the 45%. This kind of thinking is a paradox

 

You do realise that statistics are directly representative of player performance, right?

 

DPG signifies their average damage in whatever tank you are looking at, winrate shows how influential they are in said tank/overall etc.


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3HitKO #74 Posted 09 November 2018 - 04:45 PM

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View PostCelestiaLudenberg, on 09 November 2018 - 04:25 PM, said:

 

You do realise that statistics are directly representative of player performance, right?

 

DPG signifies their average damage in whatever tank you are looking at, winrate shows how influential they are in said tank/overall etc.

 

From what you said/implies,

1. DPG indeed signifies average damage per game.

2. WinRate shows a player the degree of influencing the game with that tank.

 

However, these two stats only explain literally as numbers & percentage, IT DOES NOT EXPLAIN WHY. 
I am fully agree that stats is DIRECT representative of the player performance, BUT ONLY have the weightage of 30-40%, in this game.

The elitist use this 30-40% of weightage as if 100% legit and even try to exclude the RNG factors out of the game outcome, and proceed to shame ppl for their E-PEN.

They simply dismiss the rest 60-70% weightage conveniently as "Player error" "Please learn to play better" "Don't blame on other things but yourself"



Ezz #75 Posted 09 November 2018 - 04:49 PM

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View Post3HitKO, on 09 November 2018 - 06:45 PM, said:

 

From what you said/implies,

1. DPG indeed signifies average damage per game.

2. WinRate shows a player the degree of influencing the game with that tank.

 

However, these two stats only explain literally as numbers & percentage, IT DOES NOT EXPLAIN WHY. 
I am fully agree that stats is DIRECT representative of the player performance, BUT ONLY have the weightage of 30-40%, in this game.

The elitist use this 30-40% of weightage as if 100% legit and even try to exclude the RNG factors out of the game outcome, and proceed to shame ppl for their E-PEN.

They simply dismiss the rest 60-70% weightage conveniently as "Player error" "Please learn to play better" "Don't blame on other things but yourself"

 

The thing is all of that RNG etc. that can influence a battle will balance out over time. Hence over a decent sample size it's effectively not an issue so you're left with the player influence.

Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

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3HitKO #76 Posted 09 November 2018 - 05:00 PM

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View PostEzz, on 09 November 2018 - 04:49 PM, said:

 

The thing is all of that RNG etc. that can influence a battle will balance out over time. Hence over a decent sample size it's effectively not an issue so you're left with the player influence.

 

You still missed a few things, The dynamics of how different players interact each other in a same team, against the dynamics of another different team, assign by MM. (again another factor)

These are the huge part of the game that shouldn't be left out, only to heavily focus on player's individual skills and stats.

These aspects/dynamics become much more complicated when different tanks came into play.

A bunch of players who excel in individual tanking skills doesnt mean the WinRate will goes up;

The teamwork, dynamics, and the temperament of a team, will be more influencing the win/loss.



CelestiaLudenberg #77 Posted 09 November 2018 - 05:00 PM

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As above.

 

The non-controllable factors within the game, that are applied to everyone in the game, become null and void in terms of statistics once the sample size becomes large enough. Everyone in the game is subject to +/-25% damage and penetration rolls, as well as the accuracy distribution.

 

Due to them being applied to everyone, they are a constant factor, you then have the independent and dependent variables. The independent variable, is the player skill as it is the one that is directly controlled by said player, with the finalised winrate/DPG/KPG/Accuracy/Penetration % etc being the resulting dependent variable.  

 

What sets higher skill players apart, is their ability to overcome the constants, further minimalising the impact they have on their performance.

 

On the front of people stroking their e-peen, people do it, and it is something that you just have to come to ignore, if people are proud of their stats, let them be, it doesn't impact you in any way.


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3HitKO #78 Posted 09 November 2018 - 05:12 PM

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View PostCelestiaLudenberg, on 09 November 2018 - 05:00 PM, said:

As above.

 

The non-controllable factors within the game, that are applied to everyone in the game, become null and void in terms of statistics once the sample size becomes large enough. Everyone in the game is subject to +/-25% damage and penetration rolls, as well as the accuracy distribution.

 

Due to them being applied to everyone, they are a constant factor, you then have the independent and dependent variables. The independent variable, is the player skill as it is the one that is directly controlled by said player, with the finalised winrate/DPG/KPG/Accuracy/Penetration % etc being the resulting dependent variable.  

 

What sets higher skill players apart, is their ability to overcome the constants, further minimalising the impact they have on their performance.

 

On the front of people stroking their e-peen, people do it, and it is something that you just have to come to ignore, if people are proud of their stats, let them be, it doesn't impact you in any way.

 

Yes, as I working hard on how to fit my playstyle better into the battle, as everyone is doing his/her own very best too. As long as I am not giving up, its just the matter of time.

Even if both team is having full teammates of winrates 55% players on both sides, both claimed they do their parts to overcome the constants and minimalising the impact of other factors;

BUT In the end, only 1 team wins and the other team loses the game. Luck is 1 of the most important factors, this always happens in professional tournaments with both almost evenly matched teams.

This is why I treat WIN/LOSS as almost equals. No one like to be on the losing side despite the efforts right?

Then who else will be the losing side then?

Those elitist stroking their e-peen, is none of my business, thats if they don't track my profile & public shaming me by abusing WinRates. But they didnt mind their own business.

 



MagicalFlyingFox #79 Posted 09 November 2018 - 06:48 PM

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The people on this forum are willing to help you get better at this game if you are open to improving and are willing to ask. 

 

If you can take constructive criticism, feel free to ask how to improve and what you can do. If you aren't sure why you lost a game, you can ask us on the forums.

There are games that are difficult to win but there are plenty of things you can do to make the game swing in your favour regardless. 


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 A. Guy on 02 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

Destroyer of Tier 6 CW... says it all about you.


luftkopf #80 Posted 09 November 2018 - 07:45 PM

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View PostCardinalMite, on 09 November 2018 - 07:21 AM, said:

Funny you mention the Emil I was tempted to cite that as an example of an insane amount of free xp you needed to unlock a necessary component.  WG loves to have these tech tree money sink tanks that virtually force you to spend money just to get past a miserable play experience. There is usually one somewhere around tier 7.

 

IIRC it was about 68k for the top gun which was particularly obnoxious to grind in a slow paper TD where you pretty much are always getting half xp because you won't be self spotting. I feel your pain on that one,

 

I think I stuck it out for about 50k of the xp needed for the top gun and then lost patience and paid for the rest. The Rhoomba was a way better experience, although not sure it made the pain of Emil worth it.

 

I did a similar thing, though I don't think I had the patience to grind 50k towards the top gun, I think I only made it to 25k before reaching for the free xp. I have 20k on it since, and while the alpha is nice, it's still a miserable tank. Seeing as how I have a crew ready for the JagdTiger, and I've already unlocked the tracks for it, I guess I'll go for that first. I'll even have the credits for it tomorrow! Sturer Emil can go on the backburner.

 

Edit: I did it. I held my nerve. I now have no credits, and no free xp, but I do have a shiny new JagdTiger, fully upgraded. :justwait:


Edited by luftkopf, 10 November 2018 - 07:27 PM.

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