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Premium Ammo Rebalancing

Rebalancing Premium Ammo Gold Ammo Gold T49 Sheridan Changes 2019

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Zu_Dompak #1 Posted 20 December 2018 - 09:24 PM

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Hello WG

 

about Premium Ammo Rebalancing, I want to say ... 
we don't agree ...! ... 
we don't agree ...!
we don't agree ...! 
we don't agree ...!
we don't agree ...!

 

 



mttspiii #2 Posted 20 December 2018 - 09:32 PM

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Goldspammer detected...

 


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agentfrost #3 Posted 20 December 2018 - 11:12 PM

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yea no need to rebalance premium ammo, WG should just double or triple the price of each prem shell ^_^

HexHammer #4 Posted 21 December 2018 - 07:42 AM

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A lot of people paid good money for their tanks, and will be pretty disgusted if WG actually go ahead with this.

 

This will be a massive nerf to lights and mediums, a massive buff to heavy armor, and if this was such a popular thing maybe they should think back to the disgust people showed when calling for nerfs to the Type5 / Maus / 268v4.

 

And I am not sure WG have thought it through in terms of how many players they will lose, and how many customers will lose faith in their products, and if this is a door for people to get their money back for regret purchases like the Mutz.



Sevatar_ #5 Posted 21 December 2018 - 08:09 AM

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Implemented properly I feel this will be good for the game. It will require extensive armour and accuracy rebalance. Giving the players more options and making skill more relevant can only make the game better. Knowing WG though they'll lower the armour, maybe even give tanks weak spots but nerf accuracy even more.  

Ezz #6 Posted 21 December 2018 - 08:16 AM

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View PostNightlords, on 21 December 2018 - 10:09 AM, said:

It will require extensive armour and accuracy rebalance.  

Given WG's track record in this regard it's pretty clear why people are concerned.

 

To be honest tho, i am not sure why sprem is considered a big issue. To me overall balance is a far more critical aspect of the game to get right, yet there is little evidence that WG views that as a priority. Instead they are looking to nerf gold rounds... which as it stands is more likely to make overall balance even worse rather than better.


Edited by Ezz, 21 December 2018 - 08:25 AM.

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Sevatar_ #7 Posted 21 December 2018 - 08:23 AM

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View PostEzz, on 21 December 2018 - 10:16 AM, said:

Instead they are looking to nerf gold rounds... 

 

If this is all they will do than yes, it will be worse than what we have now. And if they remain the same cost... 

 

 



HZ_kkzuikaku24 #8 Posted 21 December 2018 - 08:40 AM

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I do agree that nerf of premium rounds can be done for good, in one condition:

WG nerfs the armor of heavily armored vehicle entirely, or add a weakpoint on the tanks where ”standard rounds” can penetrate.

This would lead into a situation where the amount of knowledge counts, which WG wants this game to be, right?

 

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CardinalMite #9 Posted 21 December 2018 - 08:57 AM

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View Postkkzuikaku24, on 21 December 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

This would lead into a situation where the amount of knowledge counts, which WG wants this game to be, right?

 

I don't see any evidence from WG's actions over the last 2 years to support this statement.

 

They have deliberately up-armoured and removed weakspots every time they have modified existing tanks for years now. It used to be the case that virtually all heavily armoured tanks had at least one (albeit sometimes small) usually a couple of weak spots.

 

They said at the time they first did this that it was to encourage flanking by mediums in particular rather than frontally penning; only given the preponderance of corridor maps with limited flanking opportunities, what actually happened is that people just fired premium ammo instead of flanking.

 

This then lead to the current situation where they further buffed armour of heavies (even some mediums)to the extent that armour was now balanced against premium ammo pen.


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Sevatar_ #10 Posted 21 December 2018 - 09:01 AM

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View PostCardinalMite, on 21 December 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

 

I don't see any evidence from WG's actions over the last 2 years to support this statement.

 

They have deliberately up-armoured and removed weakspots every time they have modified existing tanks for years now. It used to be the case that virtually all heavily armoured tanks had at least one (albeit sometimes small) usually a couple of weak spots.

 

They said at the time they first did this that it was to encourage flanking by mediums in particular rather than frontally penning; only given the preponderance of corridor maps with limited flanking opportunities, what actually happened is that people just fired premium ammo instead of flanking.

 

This then lead to the current situation where they further buffed armour of heavies (even some mediums)to the extent that armour was now balanced against premium ammo pen.

 

Wasn't this train of thought brought by Murazor?

CardinalMite #11 Posted 21 December 2018 - 09:06 AM

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View PostEzz, on 21 December 2018 - 12:16 AM, said:

Given WG's track record in this regard it's pretty clear why people are concerned.

 

To be honest tho, i am not sure why sprem is considered a big issue. To me overall balance is a far more critical aspect of the game to get right, yet there is little evidence that WG views that as a priority. Instead they are looking to nerf gold rounds... which as it stands is more likely to make overall balance even worse rather than better.

^^ This completely.

 

Perhaps in an ideal world this game would not need premium rounds, which would make armour balancing so much simpler. However since (like arty) premium ammo will never go away, the next best thing is to concentrate on balance taking into account premium ammo exists.

 

However if you make wholesale pen changes, then you need wholesale tank rebalancing at the same damn time. Anything else is just breaking the game wholesale.


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HZ_kkzuikaku24 #12 Posted 21 December 2018 - 09:07 AM

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View PostCardinalMite, on 21 December 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:

 

I don't see any evidence from WG's actions over the last 2 years to support this statement.

 

They have deliberately up-armoured and removed weakspots every time they have modified existing tanks for years now. It used to be the case that virtually all heavily armoured tanks had at least one (albeit sometimes small) usually a couple of weak spots.

 

They said at the time they first did this that it was to encourage flanking by mediums in particular rather than frontally penning; only given the preponderance of corridor maps with limited flanking opportunities, what actually happened is that people just fired premium ammo instead of flanking.

 

This then lead to the current situation where they further buffed armour of heavies (even some mediums)to the extent that armour was now balanced against premium ammo pen.

Erm.....you're completely right.

It's them who removed all the weakpoints in updates, and now they are telling us not to use Premium rounds......

 

 

Now I'm absolutely puzzled what WG is trying to do....



Sevatar_ #13 Posted 21 December 2018 - 09:14 AM

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View PostCardinalMite, on 21 December 2018 - 11:06 AM, said:

...the next best thing is to concentrate on balance taking into account premium ammo exists.

 

The problem is the game already is balanced around premium ammo. The only disadvantage to firing prem rounds is cost and for the average player they need premium time and premium tanks. If you are new and a f2p player you are stuck unless you stick to low tiers. You get in your first tier 6 and face a defender and then cry every time. Players need to feel that they can succeed even if their chances are slim.



FramFramson #14 Posted 21 December 2018 - 10:08 AM

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The reason they're nerfing gold ammo rather than tackling other balance issues is fairly simple:

 

1) They probably get a very large amount of whinging about gold from scrubs, so it forms an outsize volume among widespread complaints

2) Gold ammo has lesser damage on literally every other WoT platform and it hasn't killed those games, so they probably think everything will be fine if they do it for the PC version (ignoring the fact that our balance is way more fuckered than, say, Blitz's).

 

 


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CardinalMite #15 Posted 21 December 2018 - 11:17 AM

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View PostNightlords, on 21 December 2018 - 01:14 AM, said:

 

The problem is the game already is balanced around premium ammo. The only disadvantage to firing prem rounds is cost and for the average player they need premium time and premium tanks. If you are new and a f2p player you are stuck unless you stick to low tiers. You get in your first tier 6 and face a defender and then cry every time. Players need to feel that they can succeed even if their chances are slim.

I agree, problem is the way they have painted themselves into a corner with OP premiums and balancing around premium ammo with overbuffed superheavies.

 

357 MM has also influenced balance negatively because more recent tier 8 premiums have had to have increased pen to account for being bottom tier 80% of the time.

 

Aside from tweaking some obvious outliers (lol IS-3A), significant balance improvements to address the issue you are talking about will require very large scale changes against all tiers at once otherwise things will get much worse before they get better. 


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Ezz #16 Posted 21 December 2018 - 11:36 AM

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View PostCardinalMite, on 21 December 2018 - 01:17 PM, said:

I agree, problem is the way they have painted themselves into a corner with OP premiums and balancing around premium ammo with overbuffed superheavies.

 

357 MM has also influenced balance negatively because more recent tier 8 premiums have had to have increased pen to account for being bottom tier 80% of the time.

 

Aside from tweaking some obvious outliers (lol IS-3A), significant balance improvements to address the issue you are talking about will require very large scale changes against all tiers at once otherwise things will get much worse before they get better. 

 

Basically their game has gone to shit and in quite a few people's opinions gold rounds are one of the last things they should be worried about.

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DanLBob #17 Posted 21 December 2018 - 12:09 PM

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I thought the fixed the problem when they removed the ability to purchase the round with gold. "what gold ammo? there is no gold ammo!"

 

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HexHammer #18 Posted 21 December 2018 - 12:25 PM

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If they really think this is a problem, there are other ways to do it without shafting their customers.

 

(1) Lift standard rounds of all tank up to the equal of premium rounds, and then start buffing the armor of all the tanks to counter this. The armor levels will end up way out of historical numbers, but historical accuracy does not really mean much now anyway

 

(2) Let premium owners keep their current premiums with the exact same stats and alpha, develop a new version of the same tank with the nerfed premium ammo with option to trade in the old for new, and make that new version good enough that people will want to trade.

 

(3) Stop selling premium tanks altogether. Send all the tanks to the tech tree and allow them all to be researched, with an option to pay a fee to temporarily turn researched tanks into premium tanks.

 

(4) Stop selling premum tanks and instead 'rent' them for a period of time. During the rental period, no nerfs can take place to rented tanks, so people can rent with confidence.

 

or their current idea

 

Nerf lightly armoured tanks with weak standard ammo, to the benefit of tanks with heavy armor and big guns, so we can experience the 268v4 thing all over again across the entire tech tree.

 

What they propose will not only make the game more unbalanced, but will break trust with a whole heap of their paying customers (not the F2P players that want to bounce every shell off their t-95 ect, but the ones that fork out the big bucks for premiums)



kittikan001 #19 Posted 21 December 2018 - 12:28 PM

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I so very happy about they will rebalancing premium ammo.

 

But I sitill have a few more questions.

 

1.They will rebalancing premium ammo of all tanks right? 

   I mean all tanks in tree tech and premium.

 

2.What about HESH of FV4005 and FV215b(183)?

 

3.They will make premium ammo cheaper?

 

 

Multiple threads merged. In future use the search function before starting a new topic.

 

>Centurion_IRL

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Centurion_IRL, 22 December 2018 - 05:59 AM.


Ezz #20 Posted 21 December 2018 - 12:34 PM

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View PostDanLBob, on 21 December 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

I thought the fixed the problem when they removed the ability to purchase the round with gold. "what gold ammo? there is no gold ammo!"

 

Dan

 

Gold ammo? What gold ammo? We only have special ammo. Problem fixed.

 

My guess is their next key issue to address will be the 'Press 2 to win' issue. It will take a few months but i imagine some bright spark will come up with putting gold ammo as the third slot by default. See comrade, problem fixed.


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Also tagged with Rebalancing, Premium Ammo, Gold Ammo, Gold, T49, Sheridan, Changes, 2019

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