Jump to content


Premium Ammo Rebalancing

Rebalancing Premium Ammo Gold Ammo Gold T49 Sheridan Changes 2019

  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
88 replies to this topic

Holeinthehead #41 Posted 25 December 2018 - 03:25 PM

    Captain

  • Beta-Tester
  • 55750 battles
  • 1,062
  • [PANZA] PANZA
  • Member since:
    09-16-2012

I always wondered what happened to Anatov . RIP

In space no one can hear you scream .


Sig number 6 gone . In Armageddon - Day 1.  Note the date .

You're a weird mob . I'd like to go quietly into the night . I understand Mods are here to stay . I understand Mission / SH / CW rigging is here to stay .

I'll not bother the forums with these things . Let me go in peace . Not sure though why I cannot try and get cheap gold if it's ok for others to do .


Silverforce #42 Posted 26 December 2018 - 01:04 PM

    Private

  • Member
  • 7191 battles
  • 6
  • Member since:
    07-11-2013
I rarely if ever fire prem ammo, so this is a great buff for like-minded players. ;)

yoshii_minami #43 Posted 27 December 2018 - 04:47 PM

    Staff sergeant

  • Member
  • 28316 battles
  • 271
  • [T1G3R] T1G3R
  • Member since:
    05-20-2013

View PostSilverforce, on 26 December 2018 - 12:04 PM, said:

I rarely if ever fire prem ammo, so this is a great buff for like-minded players. ;)

 

I have a principle to never fire prem ammos unless it was a very battle deciding moments.

Yes, I understand where you comes from, but doing so to the premium ammo will only make Heavy tanks or tanks with a lot of HP pools dominating the game. It is a lot better (imo) to bring back all of the weakspot on those hard to pen tanks instead of make the cost of prem ammo cheaper but doing less damage.
this changes is going to make the already OP (read: game breaking) Defender, to have more potential to destroy the tier 8 MMs.

 

OOT beyond this point about the game breaking Defender

Spoiler

 


I'm starting to hate SPG more and more now after having blue WN8
Seems like they love me more than peas, bananas, and red apples


Zu_Dompak #44 Posted 04 January 2019 - 07:10 PM

    Private

  • Member
  • 10990 battles
  • 0
  • Member since:
    07-04-2016
.....
related to the APCR rebalancing plan, to be honest I don't know what the background is and also what the goal is, but for us players, APCR is the way to win, so you shouldn't block the players from achieving victory. I want to say that APCR rebalancing is the stupidest idea I will see.....


mttspiii #45 Posted 05 January 2019 - 08:35 AM

    Major

  • Beta-Tester
  • 31758 battles
  • 17,033
  • [CALM] CALM
  • Member since:
    04-15-2012

View PostZu_Dompak, on 04 January 2019 - 07:10 PM, said:

.....
related to the APCR rebalancing plan, to be honest I don't know what the background is and also what the goal is, but for us players, APCR is the way to win, so you shouldn't block the players from achieving victory. I want to say that APCR rebalancing is the stupidest idea I will see.....

 

spremspammer spotted...

I'm fierce and I'm feeling mighty,

I'm a golden girl, I'm an Aphrodite

 

 


Ezz #46 Posted 05 January 2019 - 09:16 AM

    How many flipping posts do I need to get past Major?

  • Beta-Tester
  • 68705 battles
  • 36,131
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    07-17-2012

View Postmttspiii, on 05 January 2019 - 10:35 AM, said:

 

spremspammer spotted...

 

If sprem is auto win, it appears that fellow doesn't use any. 

Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

>9000 cynicism brought to you by P2W, RIP Balance and the Cartoon Connection

Currently moderating your English speaking community : AALGMadibaCenturion_NZ, Elite911, Moonbase Patrol Copter 7

R. Pubbie: "why are all PBKAC players so rude, arrogant and nasty? and why do Mods favor them?"


notriel #47 Posted 05 January 2019 - 10:02 AM

    Corporal

  • Member
  • 13637 battles
  • 32
  • [-DSD-] -DSD-
  • Member since:
    01-11-2013

View PostZu_Dompak, on 04 January 2019 - 07:10 PM, said:

.....
related to the APCR rebalancing plan, to be honest I don't know what the background is and also what the goal is, but for us players, APCR is the way to win, so you shouldn't block the players from achieving victory. I want to say that APCR rebalancing is the stupidest idea I will see.....

 

Gone were the days where we actually have to research and learn weak spots of each tank in win engagements. I actually had fun spending hours on tank inspector trying to learn each tanks in-game.  Nowadays we only have to dab the 2 key and fire like there is no tomorrow and count it as "achieving victory".

philrsmith #48 Posted 05 January 2019 - 10:15 AM

    Corporal

  • Member
  • 33200 battles
  • 95
  • Member since:
    04-28-2013

corridoor maps are the problem need to open maps up so mts. lts. can do there work and flank, the .330 pen ru. mt. god shells  are a joke for game balance, game was ok till t54 330 pen god shells  after that game balance wet to pot.  

 

 

 

 

 

 



mttspiii #49 Posted 06 January 2019 - 09:29 AM

    Major

  • Beta-Tester
  • 31758 battles
  • 17,033
  • [CALM] CALM
  • Member since:
    04-15-2012

View Postphilrsmith, on 05 January 2019 - 10:15 AM, said:

corridoor maps are the problem need to open maps up so mts. lts. can do there work and flank, the .330 pen ru. mt. god shells  are a joke for game balance, game was ok till t54 330 pen god shells  after that game balance wet to pot. 

 

For reference:

IX
100mm D-54
320/320/420(HP)
219/294/50(mm)
8.4(r/m)
0.34(m)
2.5(s)
 
221 000 Credits.png
2 557(kg)

 

I'm not sure. 294-pen AP back in 7.5 still is scary, especially since it's AP so it will punch through the tracks of HT flanks. On the other hand, sub-300 pen is still fairly counter-able by a 270mm-thick Type 5 front.

Edited by mttspiii, 06 January 2019 - 09:34 AM.

I'm fierce and I'm feeling mighty,

I'm a golden girl, I'm an Aphrodite

 

 


Quasinerdo #50 Posted 06 January 2019 - 07:09 PM

    First lieutenant

  • Beta-Tester
  • 16999 battles
  • 823
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    09-17-2012

View Postphilrsmith, on 05 January 2019 - 12:15 PM, said:

corridoor maps are the problem need to open maps up so mts. lts. can do there work and flank, the .330 pen ru. mt. god shells  are a joke for game balance, game was ok till t54 330 pen god shells  after that game balance wet to pot.  

 

 

 

Strategic game balance means the maps really need to be considered as they determine the foundation of play.

 

Not all tanks should be capable of penetrating every tank from the front as instead of high pen they gain other benefits. Currently their seems no correlation between base and premium ammo pen in regard to different vehicles. This should change and WG saying they will not be rebalancing pen to me is a huge mistake.

 

So my thoughts of the large task WG have built themselves into a corner over (not prioritised... some need to be in parallel):

1. balance maps to enable multiple forms of engagement or a chance at a map providing favourable engagement for each vehicle role (HT, MT, TD, LT) …. ohh yeah SPG too :/

2. Implement change to Premium ammo mechanics.

3. review and reduce penetration on a lot of vehicles for premium ammo and if required raise standard. Have a correlation and rationale for standard and premium …. currently there does not seem to be one.

4. Review armour models on tanks and associated vehicle mechanics. Not just HT's but also the MT's that have ridiculous angled and now thick armoured turrets, as well as unrealistic gun depression (and so often have higher effective armour in practice).

 

TDL for me is that reducing premium damage without balancing the pen is pointless. It won't change the behaviour in-game I think.  Undo the power creep; reintroduce role warfare dynamics where they can.


Edited by Quasinerdo, 06 January 2019 - 07:11 PM.


 

 KraftLawrence - "Don’t be that guy camping and doing nothing while your team dies on another flank – then farm 3k damage and complain your team sucks. That guy is the worst."


Maverick33 #51 Posted 08 January 2019 - 06:18 AM

    Private

  • Member
  • 23406 battles
  • 3
  • [7ACAV] 7ACAV
  • Member since:
    04-28-2015

I wonder if the Gold Advocates here are just worried that their Stats will suffer if they cant fire their Noob ammo. It seems to me the game is already broken when a LT or MT can sit in a bush and spam the 2 button to kill a HT with ease. I love playing Heavy Tanks but against TD and MT firing gold our armour that you carry on about being OP is almost useless. The only advantage some HT have is the amount of HP they have. I hardly ever use premium ammo except when playing clan wars and find that I can do reasonably well anyway. 

I do not think there is an easy answer to this, I often wondered why they introduced premium ammo in the first place as it seems a tad unnecessary :) 

Most of the maps are already more suited to fast and flexible tanks or tanks that hide, I feel that removing gold ammo and maybe bringing some variety into the map selection would be a great start. 

Playing Sand river and the grassy field maps 9 out of 10 times in a super heavy with 5 TD and 3 Arty wears kinda thin after a while :/  especially when they can load gold and don't need to aim. There should be more risk associated with TD and arty play ....

 



AlexTheKid72 #52 Posted 08 January 2019 - 06:40 AM

    Sergeant

  • Member
  • 23102 battles
  • 115
  • [SABRE] SABRE
  • Member since:
    05-28-2017
So my Maus will love and hate it ...... love the reduction in hp loss per hit, but with is-7-standard-pen of 250, premium rounds are necessary for anything not showing it's hull .....
My is-7 will just hate it ......

This is not a rebalancing solution, it's an in-game-economy reducer in the guise of rebalancing. Need to shoot premium to pen? Now you need to shoot more. It does nothing to address the armour creep, it will not affect Japanese super heavies - it will only make us shoot more expensive ammo, reducing silver income, and WG see more gold purchases.

All this is, is a devaluation of in-game currency.

I am pretty sure larger maps with less corridors would make everything else moot, but this will not happen as corridors = forced frontal fight = spam prem = short matches = WG win.

Edited by AlexTheKid72, 08 January 2019 - 06:43 AM.


Puggsley #53 Posted 08 January 2019 - 07:40 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 68688 battles
  • 1,695
  • [-1AR-] -1AR-
  • Member since:
    04-03-2014

Rebalance gold rounds but significantly reduce heavily armoured tanks vision range and increase dispersion at distance (ie not linear increase). These tanks are close range brawlers. To gain that advantage they lose out in other areas.

 

These heavily armoured tanks should need closish support from vision tanks to prevent enemy mobile forces moving into flanking positions where they can be shot with regular ammo.

 

Or just fix the bloody maps.....



HexHammer #54 Posted 08 January 2019 - 08:24 AM

    Staff sergeant

  • Member
  • 33503 battles
  • 424
  • Member since:
    06-05-2016

View PostMaverick33, on 08 January 2019 - 06:18 AM, said:

I wonder if the Gold Advocates here are just worried that their Stats will suffer if they cant fire their Noob ammo. .

 

 

It is more the fact that if they ever nerfed premium ammo as they suggest, it would be a major nerf to lights an mediums, and a major buff to HTs and TDs.  The biggest mistakes WG have made of late, that required them to make changes, was the Maus, Type5, 268v4, Defender. This game was at it's peak with the current premium ammo setup, the decline came with dominant armor meta.

 

The biggest problem is that it will render many premium tanks useless, and people paid good money for those tanks based on their combat potential. The 268v4 hurt WG very badly, this proposed change would have this effect across the entire tech tree, the majority of the player base, or at least a significant amount, will hate the change, and WG will regret ever attempting such an armor meta rebalance 



Puggsley #55 Posted 08 January 2019 - 09:12 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 68688 battles
  • 1,695
  • [-1AR-] -1AR-
  • Member since:
    04-03-2014

The easiest and cheapest way to get around this is work on the damn maps.

 

Then players can figure out work-arounds to nerfs to LT/MT. They can use mobility and they can play vision games to overcome low pen guns against tough frontal armour. Everyone gets something they can work with. Yes it will be different, but it will be workable.

 

There will be no need to mess with anyone's perception of a bought tank being modified.

 

The current proposal gives a huge buff to one class and totally shits on another couple of classes. 



FramFramson #56 Posted 08 January 2019 - 10:02 AM

    Major

  • Member
  • 43655 battles
  • 3,546
  • [AVAST] AVAST
  • Member since:
    02-22-2015
This just reminds me of how I often do best in Grand Battles in my TXs. Maps that size - even though they're quite busy - are places where all my fast paper tanks with good camo can actually shine.

LT-playing masochist. It's too much fun to be a mosquito.


Quasinerdo #57 Posted 08 January 2019 - 11:49 AM

    First lieutenant

  • Beta-Tester
  • 16999 battles
  • 823
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    09-17-2012

When more than one element of a project/game is out of sync and change is mandated it becomes really complex when you have to account for multiple linked effects and potential for unintended consequences. I don't think WG can easily rebalance the game and pull back from the direction they have taken without significant overhaul across  the tech trees en mass - especially with a single change to ammo (reduced premium damage).

Map redesign - another issue that gets little airtime in the discussion of balance and a host of other aspects are at least as important. Interim patches as they back-peddle on some of their poor decisions or make step changes toward a new end goal would be hard to enact without leaving the game in a risky state.

 

WG made the game look better, added more content and have talked about progressing on the base of player wants but my opinion is that the game looks better and plays worse than it did a number of years ago.  

My opinion is also that WG have extensive data sets and know exactly where the game is at; they have a plan - as a business and will continue to ride close to the edge of pissing off the community as long as they are making optimum return. 

 

Premium ammo is a hot topic but there is still a lot that WG do to "fix it" that will be only a bandaid and possibly even increase their financial returns.


Edited by Quasinerdo, 08 January 2019 - 12:22 PM.


 

 KraftLawrence - "Don’t be that guy camping and doing nothing while your team dies on another flank – then farm 3k damage and complain your team sucks. That guy is the worst."


Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #58 Posted 08 January 2019 - 12:05 PM

    Blue Mountain Aoyama

  • Beta-Tester
  • 75883 battles
  • 7,484
  • [DADDY] DADDY
  • Member since:
    05-30-2012

Or just make the changes and let the meta restabilize itself

 

Most of the tanks lay unused already anyway



Zu_Dompak #59 Posted 08 January 2019 - 02:58 PM

    Private

  • Member
  • 10990 battles
  • 0
  • Member since:
    07-04-2016

View PostAlexTheKid72, on 08 January 2019 - 06:40 AM, said:

So my Maus will love and hate it ...... love the reduction in hp loss per hit, but with is-7-standard-pen of 250, premium rounds are necessary for anything not showing it's hull .....
My is-7 will just hate it ......

This is not a rebalancing solution, it's an in-game-economy reducer in the guise of rebalancing. Need to shoot premium to pen? Now you need to shoot more. It does nothing to address the armour creep, it will not affect Japanese super heavies - it will only make us shoot more expensive ammo, reducing silver income, and WG see more gold purchases.

All this is, is a devaluation of in-game currency.

I am pretty sure larger maps with less corridors would make everything else moot, but this will not happen as corridors = forced frontal fight = spam prem = short matches = WG win.

 

yea ....i'm agree with this

Quasinerdo #60 Posted 08 January 2019 - 03:45 PM

    First lieutenant

  • Beta-Tester
  • 16999 battles
  • 823
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    09-17-2012

View PostAoyama_Blue_Mountain, on 08 January 2019 - 02:05 PM, said:

Or just make the changes and let the meta restabilize itself

 

Most of the tanks lay unused already anyway

 

A valid point that offsets a lot of the concern of people who focus on a specific class of tank. The game has shifted several times and people adjust; it's usually the ones solely invested in an area that feel it the most and complain. I've not really seen anyone crying in the forums about a patch making their favourite tank lines OP. I would say there are those of us who are interested in the analysis as an intellectual exercise - and perhaps playing better; others are more about their own agenda and push whatever they think will support it (to the point of conflicting with their own points).

 

I just don't want to see it get worse again as the opportunity cost is massive. WG rarely open the door to real and significant change.


Edited by Quasinerdo, 08 January 2019 - 03:46 PM.


 

 KraftLawrence - "Don’t be that guy camping and doing nothing while your team dies on another flank – then farm 3k damage and complain your team sucks. That guy is the worst."






Also tagged with Rebalancing, Premium Ammo, Gold Ammo, Gold, T49, Sheridan, Changes, 2019

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users