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New Year Mission = 100% gold spam cash grab. GG WG /sigh


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Sir_Direkin #21 Posted 06 January 2019 - 12:09 AM

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View PostTopgunm, on 05 January 2019 - 01:43 PM, said:

The continual gold spam is rife through all tiers not just tier 8 and it will be the death of this game. When was the last time someone completed a damage blocking mission? You either get spammed by gold or HE (or gold HE).

I don't mind if you are bottom tier and you are shooting at something heavier than you but when you are in a battle with 15 same tier tanks and STILL keep getting gold spammed that's what I find disappointing.

 

View Postspacewolf, on 05 January 2019 - 02:04 PM, said:

Sadly that's how the game has developed. Making gold (rounds) available with creds is kinda something that had to happen, as in the very old days it was only people who could buy it or clan wars players that had it.

 

In saying that, it never ceases to amaze me how many people will fire gold at a scout tank. I'd agree absolutely that something needs to be done, and I think WG are on the right track with how they are developing their change for it. 

 

My sentiments exactly, but those who spam because they need to are usually quick to cry "crybaby" when you point out how ridiculous it is when a top tier heavy needs to fire gold at a light tank two tiers down.

 

View PostMagicalFlyingFox, on 05 January 2019 - 04:05 PM, said:

AKA uninstall because the vanilla game tells you :)

 

Was going to say. :P

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HexHammer #22 Posted 06 January 2019 - 08:19 AM

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View PostQuasinerdo, on 05 January 2019 - 04:44 PM, said:

 

Thanks for the educational post :P. I'm aware of the game dynamics and as pointed out the game's inbuilt indicators inform you.

 

How does shooting premium ammo equate to a 'cashgrab' BTW? They are paid for by credits not $$$

 

Also, how exactly will removing / nerfing premium rounds improve the game?  The game reached at it's peak in early 2017 with this current system in place, so any problems in the game cannot be blamed on use of premium rounds. What has caused damage tp the game hovewer was the Maus(too much armour - nerfed) the 268v4 (too much armor - nerfed) Defender ( too much armor - premium tank so cannot be nerfed)

 

You see, people play this game to deal damage, not bounce shells. The salt towards the tanks listed above made that quite clear. What you are suggesting is a massive buff to heavy armored tanks, thus creating again the same problem.

 

Dont hold your breath on premium ammo nerfs. WG are already walking it back, saying that it is just a test "not set in stone' Because they know if they do it it will backfire in a big way, they don't have the luxury to take risks like that anymore. Expect minor armor buffs to some heavy tanks, thats about it

 

 



mttspiii #23 Posted 06 January 2019 - 08:36 AM

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You do have 1 good point there, WG can peel off armor from even the Maus if they wanted to (shave 20mm off the turret face to set it back to historical stats), but 252U is ruined since it's a prem tank. WG added an extra 30mm of armor on the UFP (as compared to historical armor layout), with a lot more armor buffs all around the tank. T-10, Conqueror, they can be nerfed, but Defender and Chrysler K with its flank MG ports are fixed-in already.

 

How will sprem nerf improve the game? By making standard AP/APCR a more viable round, instead of merely being a monkey-model ammo. Because more (viable) choices in ammo types is always welcome.

 

And btw, most players play this game to bounce shells; it's a tank game not a simple FPS. If I merely wanted to deal damage I'd play CS:GO, PUBG, or all those simplistic FPS that didn't bother implementing a fairly complex armor scheme mechanic that accounts for angling and whatnot.

 

And here I was, thinking that the game peaked 2015-2016 when there was tier 6 CW ;)


Edited by mttspiii, 06 January 2019 - 08:38 AM.

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Ezz #24 Posted 06 January 2019 - 09:55 AM

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They could always go back to nerfing prems. But clearly restoring a semblance of balance isn't their priority when there are profits to be made. 

Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

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HexHammer #25 Posted 07 January 2019 - 07:51 AM

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View PostEzz, on 06 January 2019 - 09:55 AM, said:

They could always go back to nerfing prems. 

 

This is exactly what they would love to do. Could you imagine if WG could do for premiums what they did with the 268v4? Where they could release ridiculously OP tanks, sell a heap, then nerf them, then repeat with a new tank. Is this what you would like to see? If they had that right, they would start doing things like releasing IS3As that are slightly faster and slightly better armored that the IS3, milk it for a few months, then nerf them to hell, and sell another stupidly OP tank. 

 

My question is why are they selling the current premiums with the current ammo values? Why not do a real world 'supertest' and start selling premiums with the premium ammo doing 30% less damage?

 

Because a lot of those tanks would then be rendered crap tanks and they would not get the sales. No if they try this, it will not go well for WG at all, it will be the 268v4 on steroids. It will sour Wg relationship with a large portion of their customers, few will come back to play because of these changes, plenty would leave


Edited by BrutalOlyx, 07 January 2019 - 07:54 AM.


HexHammer #26 Posted 07 January 2019 - 08:03 AM

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View Postmttspiii, on 06 January 2019 - 08:36 AM, said:

 And btw, most players play this game to bounce shells;

 

If this was the case, they never would have nerfed the armor of the 268v4/Maus/Type5, we would all be happily playing those tanks, and the forums would be filled with complaints asking for those tanks to be rebuffed.

 

It is a real shame VBaddict is down, because the stats there clearly showed that tanks were bouncing plenty as it is.



Otakubouzu #27 Posted 07 January 2019 - 08:07 AM

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View PostBrutalOlyx, on 06 January 2019 - 07:19 AM, said:

 

How does shooting premium ammo equate to a 'cashgrab' BTW? They are paid for by credits not $$$

 

The price of premium rounds means you will need to buy and activate credit booster, pay for premium days, Grind for credits with premium tanks or pays for gold if you want to keep slinging Premium Round in large number.

Its different case if you just shot it once awhile, but OP seems feels people exclusively use premium round for these mission so yeah, calling it a cashgrab still pretty reasonable.

 

View PostEzz, on 06 January 2019 - 08:55 AM, said:

They could always go back to nerfing prems. But clearly restoring a semblance of balance isn't their priority when there are profits to be made. 

Do you forget Super Pershing? I doubt WG want a repeat of debacle when they nerfed SPershing. Oh sure some of the premiums like Defender might be too good and deserved to be nerfed a bit. Doesnt mean all Defender/252U owner will happy. Some will complained and law will be involved yadda yadda.

The best course is WG shouldn't even release any unbalanced premium but hindsight is 10/10

 


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CardinalMite #28 Posted 07 January 2019 - 08:16 AM

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View PostOtakubouzu, on 07 January 2019 - 12:07 AM, said:

 

The price of premium rounds means you will need to buy and activate credit booster, pay for premium days, Grind for credits with premium tanks or pays for gold if you want to keep slinging Premium Round in large number.

Its different case if you just shot it once awhile, but OP seems feels people exclusively use premium round for these mission so yeah, calling it a cashgrab still pretty reasonable.

 

Do you forget Super Pershing? I doubt WG want a repeat of debacle when they nerfed SPershing. Oh sure some of the premiums like Defender might be too good and deserved to be nerfed a bit. Doesnt mean all Defender/252U owner will happy. Some will complained and law will be involved yadda yadda.

The best course is WG shouldn't even release any unbalanced premium but hindsight is 10/10

 

Only, given that they actually supertest and get given feedback from CCs and others prior to releasing these tanks..... hindsight was not an issue.

 

In other words, what makes you think that they only knew that they were releasing OP premium tanks after the fact?

 

The issue with WG is NOT that they don't know how to balance the game or that they don't recognise OP tanks before release.


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Ezz #29 Posted 07 January 2019 - 09:30 AM

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What was the issue when the nerfed the SP?

 

Basically it just reinforces that wg will sacrifice balance to protect revenue. And the result is the p2w debacle we have now. 


Edited by Ezz, 07 January 2019 - 09:58 AM.

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Puggsley #30 Posted 07 January 2019 - 09:37 AM

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View PostTopgunm, on 05 January 2019 - 05:43 AM, said:

The continual gold spam is rife through all tiers not just tier 8 and it will be the death of this game. When was the last time someone completed a damage blocking mission? You either get spammed by gold or HE (or gold HE).

I don't mind if you are bottom tier and you are shooting at something heavier than you but when you are in a battle with 15 same tier tanks and STILL keep getting gold spammed that's what I find disappointing.

 

Why I got one just the other day. HT12.3 with hons, bounced 4.9k http://wotreplays.eu/site/4679608#ruinberg-puggsley-caernarvon

Otakubouzu #31 Posted 07 January 2019 - 11:21 AM

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Ah yes. Kinda forget that the CCs are pretty vocal when Defender and IS-3A was about to be introduced. I were wrong using 'hindsight' word, but

assuming WG really aware how broken premium tanks like Defender and IS-3A can be, that means WG just don't care. And that scary to think about.

 

 

 


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mttspiii #32 Posted 07 January 2019 - 11:25 AM

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View PostBrutalOlyx, on 07 January 2019 - 08:03 AM, said:

 

If this was the case, they never would have nerfed the armor of the 268v4/Maus/Type5, we would all be happily playing those tanks, and the forums would be filled with complaints asking for those tanks to be rebuffed.

 

It is a real shame VBaddict is down, because the stats there clearly showed that tanks were bouncing plenty as it is.

 

Maus & Type 5 mostly had buffs since first introduced. The "weakspots" on Type 5 were an afterthought. And 268v4 was overperforming too much that it's hurting tier 8 prem tank sales.

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Quasinerdo #33 Posted 07 January 2019 - 12:24 PM

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Why is it a cashgrab?

 

Mission provides bonus exp on wins but ONLY on premium vehicles and Tier 10 vehicles. What is the one use players can make of xp on premium vehicles Brutal Onyx? That's right.... free xp conversion! Which coincidentally is "discounted" currently to incentivise conversion even more. Still with me? Ok... the next part is that free xp conversion is performed at the expense of gold..... yes, that currency people purchase with real money!

 

I'm not even really considering the incentive to purchase premium vehicles due to the indirect influence of Christmas bonuses, OPS 2019 premium missions, and the "discounts" applied to premium store tanks. 

 

Instead of trying to argue with me for the sake of it in your posts maybe you could read my initial post properly as I stated the mechanics of why I felt this mission was a problem.

 

Premium rounds are a blight. There is no proportional implementation that could suggest they are balanced or reasonable in the context of this game; when many of us first began playing use of armour involved skill and some nuance. 

 

PS: stop dragging my thread off topic.


Edited by Quasinerdo, 07 January 2019 - 12:29 PM.


 

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Puggsley #34 Posted 07 January 2019 - 12:33 PM

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^^ I'd say that the premium rounds are the cheap fix to shoddy map design. Too many choke points protected by wide open spaces which are smaller than most tanks vision capacity means the average player is forced into frontal engagements.   

CardinalMite #35 Posted 07 January 2019 - 03:55 PM

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View PostOtakubouzu, on 07 January 2019 - 03:21 AM, said:

Ah yes. Kinda forget that the CCs are pretty vocal when Defender and IS-3A was about to be introduced. I were wrong using 'hindsight' word, but

assuming WG really aware how broken premium tanks like Defender and IS-3A can be, that means WG just don't care. And that scary to think about.

 

 

 

Now your catching on....

 

WG like to tacitly encourage the idea that if they damage balance it is through some kind of benign incompetence rather than by design to encourage player spending.

 

The community often buys into the incompetence argument but while of course everyone makes mistakes, for the most part WG are extremely competent in riding the fine line of just enough P2W to encourage paying without so much that too many people just leave.

 

The fact that recently player populations have taken a down turn means they will first fiddle with nobs and levers like "hey we are testing MM fixes" and "look we are going to rebalance special ammo". If that shores things up then great, no need to properly address game imbalance. Keep farming out new power premiums and overbuff a tier 10 grinding target FTW!

 


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HexHammer #36 Posted 07 January 2019 - 08:22 PM

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View PostQuasinerdo, on 07 January 2019 - 12:24 PM, said:

 Premium rounds are a blight. There is no proportional implementation that could suggest they are balanced or reasonable in the context of this game; when many of us first began playing use of armour involved skill and some nuance. 

 

PS: stop dragging my thread off topic.

 

This the is armor potential of a 45TP (the tank that inspired this thread) against and enemy 45TP shooting 'standard rounds' (not premium)

 

 

A typical Polish HT. Decent gun depression, decent gun, good mobility, but a very weak hull and below average turret. As you can see, the standard rounds of an enemy 45TP are virtually auto pen on the hull no matter how you angle it, and 50/50 chance of a pen in the yellow part of the turret.

 

You should not expect to be bouncing shells playing this tank, if you do you are lucky.

 

So I checked your stats.

 

You have an armor effectiveness of

45TP - .40

O-NI - .73

T29 - .91

 

So when you play a T29, you are bouncing 9 for every 10 penetrations, almost 50% bounce rate. Your Maus has  1.23 bounce ratio, then your TD t28s E4s go well above 2.

Your T-29 is already bouncing half its hits, If you had your way, how much higher do you want the bounce rate? 70% ... 80%??

 

Armor is already working exactly as it is meant to, if you got your way and these nerfs went ahead, it will blow up right into WGs face, worse than the 268v4 debacle..

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by BrutalOlyx, 07 January 2019 - 08:28 PM.


Topgunm #37 Posted 08 January 2019 - 07:21 AM

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I know this sounds crazy but maybe WG could restrict the use of gold rounds to clan wars, strongholds and tournaments. Just a thought.

Quasinerdo #38 Posted 08 January 2019 - 12:04 PM

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View PostBrutalOlyx, on 07 January 2019 - 10:22 PM, said:

 

This the is armor potential of a 45TP (the tank that inspired this thread) against and enemy 45TP shooting 'standard rounds' (not premium)

 

 

A typical Polish HT. Decent gun depression, decent gun, good mobility, but a very weak hull and below average turret. As you can see, the standard rounds of an enemy 45TP are virtually auto pen on the hull no matter how you angle it, and 50/50 chance of a pen in the yellow part of the turret.

 

You should not expect to be bouncing shells playing this tank, if you do you are lucky.

 

So I checked your stats.

 

You have an armor effectiveness of

45TP - .40

O-NI - .73

T29 - .91

 

So when you play a T29, you are bouncing 9 for every 10 penetrations, almost 50% bounce rate. Your Maus has  1.23 bounce ratio, then your TD t28s E4s go well above 2.

Your T-29 is already bouncing half its hits, If you had your way, how much higher do you want the bounce rate? 70% ... 80%??

 

Armor is already working exactly as it is meant to, if you got your way and these nerfs went ahead, it will blow up right into WGs face, worse than the 268v4 debacle..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OT post again.

 

Stop trying to shore up your position by making unfounded assertions. The information I stated is not tank dependant - nor related to how well or how poorly I play a tank. The mention of the 45TP is merely a vehicle for describing what I currently observe in the game and a Segway to the core issue I raised. The thread.... which is actually about the inter-relationship of missions, premium sales and gameplay driven by the monetisation strategy may be a bit tough for you to digest so perhaps just go back to pushing your point in the "rebalance Premium ammo" thread. 

 

PS: when you attempt to make an argument or rebuttal - be structured and well informed; use statistics appropriately. Players do not play all tanks consistently therefore statistics are not always reflective of the tank as it is ingame now - even for that player. Unless you know when in the games dynamic history a player leveled a vehicle (did they play from stock?) and some other facets of the discussion, you are not being accurate in your representation and you add to the misinformed rubbish that is much of the forum.  


Edited by Quasinerdo, 08 January 2019 - 12:13 PM.


 

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FramFramson #39 Posted 08 January 2019 - 01:26 PM

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View PostQuasinerdo, on 07 January 2019 - 11:04 PM, said:

 

OT post again.

 

Stop trying to shore up your position by making unfounded assertions. The information I stated is not tank dependant - nor related to how well or how poorly I play a tank. The mention of the 45TP is merely a vehicle for describing what I currently observe in the game and a Segway to the core issue I raised. The thread.... which is actually about the inter-relationship of missions, premium sales and gameplay driven by the monetisation strategy may be a bit tough for you to digest so perhaps just go back to pushing your point in the "rebalance Premium ammo" thread. 

 

PS: when you attempt to make an argument or rebuttal - be structured and well informed; use statistics appropriately. Players do not play all tanks consistently therefore statistics are not always reflective of the tank as it is ingame now - even for that player. Unless you know when in the games dynamic history a player leveled a vehicle (did they play from stock?) and some other facets of the discussion, you are not being accurate in your representation and you add to the misinformed rubbish that is much of the forum.  

 

Bollyx misinformed or inaccurate? 

 

Why, I don't know how anyone could ever come to that conclusion.


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Quasinerdo #40 Posted 08 January 2019 - 03:51 PM

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View PostFramFramson, on 08 January 2019 - 03:26 PM, said:

 

Bollyx misinformed or inaccurate? 

 

Why, I don't know how anyone could ever come to that conclusion.

 

I'm doing my best not to get red-penned.


 

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