Jump to content


Supertest - Swedish HT rebalance


  • Please log in to reply
48 replies to this topic

DeadArashi #1 Posted 02 March 2019 - 07:18 AM

    Imperium Tech Priest

  • Member
  • 12631 battles
  • 1,707
  • Member since:
    05-31-2013

RoF: 5.68 -> 6.2 (5.55)

DPS: 1,816 -> 2,232 (1,777)

Clip Potential: 1,280 -> 1,080 (960)

 

*Emil 1951 stats in brackets for comparison

 

RoF: 4.88 -> 5.82

DPS: 1,952 -> 2,560

Clip Potential: 1,600 -> 1,320

 

RoF: 5.81 -> 6.66

DPS: 2,324 -> 2,930

Clip Potential: 1,600 -> 1,320

 


 

Thoughts

     To me these changes seem to be an attempt to emphasise its role as a brawling autoloader. Reducing the number of shells in the clip in favour of heavily improving the reload proves this. You spend significantly less time out of the fight. DPS has also taken a very healthy bump up. The drawback is the clip potential. In an attempt to mitigate the loss of a round, shell damage has gone up across the board.
 
     More damage per shot is nice and will feel brilliant on the Emil 1, but it means you risk losing more damage if your shot misses or bounces. Swedish HTs aren't known for their good gun handling, premium penetration. So why DPM/alpha damage is the main and only buff is beyond me.
 
     Don't get me wrong, these changes are nice and will make them more comfortable to play, but they don't fix the main issue with the tanks (poor gun handling and sluggish mobility), so this is what I propose;
    If WG want to keep it as a brawling autoloader, sure, making it a 3 round autoloader could work, but it would work better if it was made into a 3 round auto-REloader (the Italian style, not IS-3A inverse system). That would be the defining factor between the US and French autoloading HT. The Swedish would gain sustained DPM when single firing with the ability to burst damage if needed at the cost of that sustained DPM. The US and French would have sustained DPM with a higher burst damage.
 
Reduced frontal turret thickness would make them easier to dig out if hull down but still thick enough that on the Kranvagn, and even the Emil II you would have a hard time digging them out, but it would emphasise their great -12 deg gun depression.
 
Greatly improved engine power on the Emil I and II would help them get up to speed faster while terrain resistances on the Kranvagn could be improved to artificially improve its mobility. Turret traverse buff would also make them feel less sluggish, allowing you to get your gun on target quicker to put improved aim time, accuracy and intra-clip to good use.
 
Also, since WG are rebalancing the Swedish HTs, can you finally just give the Emil 1 the correct model please?

Edited by DeadArashi, 03 March 2019 - 09:06 AM.


CardinalMite #2 Posted 02 March 2019 - 08:07 AM

    First lieutenant

  • Member
  • 27655 battles
  • 971
  • Member since:
    04-18-2014

I only just unlocked the Emil 2 so can't comment on it  but  for the Emil 1 I was kind of scratching my head on these changes trying to work out really why WG are doing this?

 

Is this intended as a net nerf or buff? I had little problem playing the Emil 1 on the current stats, however while good for a tech tree tier 8, I certainly  would not call it massively OP versus some of the premiums.

 

The nature of these changes actually seem to mean it will probably be a buff in effect as DA pointed out. Making it a better brawler indeed. Not sure that was warranted either though.

 

The thing I really can't reconcile is that compared to other tech trees, these are relatively new vehicles. They may not be perfectly balanced but they certainly are not massively out of whack....

 

However we have several tanks at important tiers that have been in the game since the dawn of time (or even ones that are more recent) that are horribly out of balance and dearly need adjusting, that WG seem to have decided to just punish with never getting any love.

 

Tiger 2, T32, A45, amx65t, TVP VTU,  Sturer Emil (the tier 7 TD), M103, T110e5 (when was the last time you saw someone driving one of these in battle?), E100 (possibly). These are just a few off the top of my head, I am sure there are others...

 

I just don't get WGs sense of priorities with their marketing balance department.


Edited by CardinalMite, 02 March 2019 - 08:10 AM.

“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

Ezz #3 Posted 02 March 2019 - 08:25 AM

    How many flipping posts do I need to get past Major?

  • Beta-Tester
  • 65665 battles
  • 35,593
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    07-17-2012

View PostCardinalMite, on 02 March 2019 - 10:07 AM, said:

The thing I really can't reconcile is that compared to other tech trees...

 

I just don't get WGs sense of priorities with their marketing balance department.

Why balance a tank line that most pubbies already have? Far better for coin to make a line that not as many people have appear more attractive to entice people to grind them. It's why i can't see their buffs to things like the already ubiquitous leo or e100 happening any time soon.


Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

>9000 cynicism brought to you by P2W, RIP Balance and the Cartoon Connection

Currently moderating your English speaking community : AALGMadibaCenturion_NZ, Elite911, Moonbase Patrol Copter 7

R. Pubbie: "why are all PBKAC players so rude, arrogant and nasty? and why do Mods favor them?"


DeadArashi #4 Posted 02 March 2019 - 08:47 AM

    Imperium Tech Priest

  • Member
  • 12631 battles
  • 1,707
  • Member since:
    05-31-2013
I think its WG trying to add some interest into the Swedish nation for the MT line coming sometime this year.

CardinalMite #5 Posted 02 March 2019 - 09:41 AM

    First lieutenant

  • Member
  • 27655 battles
  • 971
  • Member since:
    04-18-2014

View PostEzz, on 02 March 2019 - 12:25 AM, said:

Why balance a tank line that most pubbies already have? Far better for coin to make a line that not as many people have appear more attractive to entice people to grind them. It's why i can't see their buffs to things like the already ubiquitous leo or e100 happening any time soon.

Which means that they have little confidence in their ability to get new players. New players won't have any lines so it does not matter if the existing line is old or new..

 

Pretty typical and negative attitude of WG then..

 

Although... they did it with the British heavy and TD lines...


Edited by CardinalMite, 02 March 2019 - 09:43 AM.

“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

Fluffy_Water_Bear #6 Posted 02 March 2019 - 09:44 AM

    wat

  • Member
  • 22343 battles
  • 143
  • [BLAP] BLAP
  • Member since:
    07-28-2013
No issues with this, I think this is what the line needs to make it something people actually want to grind. Interestingf they are turning it into a 3 round autoloader line with good DPM. Looking forward to playing these, particularly the Emil 2 which will be a bit of a beast.

Fluffy_Water_Bear #7 Posted 02 March 2019 - 09:48 AM

    wat

  • Member
  • 22343 battles
  • 143
  • [BLAP] BLAP
  • Member since:
    07-28-2013

View PostCardinalMite, on 02 March 2019 - 09:41 AM, said:

Which means that they have little confidence in their ability to get new players. New players won't have any lines so it does not matter if the existing line is old or new..

 

Pretty typical and negative attitude of WG then..

 

Although... they did it with the British heavy and TD lines...

 

People do play tank lines once they have grinded them....I think the reason they are doing this is to ensure there is at least a few really good tanks in every line. Currently this line has no really good tanks, IMO the strv 74 is probably the best tier for tier on the line, and I wouldn't say that is any better than just a 'good' tank. The line desperately needs something.

DeadArashi #8 Posted 02 March 2019 - 01:30 PM

    Imperium Tech Priest

  • Member
  • 12631 battles
  • 1,707
  • Member since:
    05-31-2013

View PostFluffy_Water_Bear, on 02 March 2019 - 11:48 AM, said:

 

People do play tank lines once they have grinded them....I think the reason they are doing this is to ensure there is at least a few really good tanks in every line. Currently this line has no really good tanks, IMO the strv 74 is probably the best tier for tier on the line, and I wouldn't say that is any better than just a 'good' tank. The line desperately needs something.

 

I personally preferred the Leo over anything else. I just wish they had kept consistency in the line. I mean, the line from tier 4->7 were all relatively mobile with accurate, quick aiming and rapid firing guns. Then you get to tier 8->10 which are all sluggish with not so accurate, slow aiming sluggish guns.

 

These gun changes will certainly make them feel more rapid firing, but I feel if they wanted a brawling auto-loader they could have just given them the Italians auto-reloader (not the reverse one on the IS-3A). The problem I have is that they will still feel inconsistent to the rest of the line.

 

The AMX 50B and T57 will probably still be more popular as well with much better turret traverse speeds and, in the case of the AMX, better hull traverse and power to weight (though the T57 has better ground resistances), slightly better accuracy and, while the T57 still has better DPM, they both will have better clip potential. Oh, and both have better pen on standard and prem rounds.

 

Honestly, overall DPM was never an issue. For me it's always been:

  • accuracy
  • aim time
  • penetration (to a minor extent)
  • mobility


Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #9 Posted 02 March 2019 - 04:30 PM

    Blue Mountain Aoyama

  • Beta-Tester
  • 71420 battles
  • 7,369
  • [DADDY] DADDY
  • Member since:
    05-30-2012

Right, so let's make something that is already unstoppable hull-down/face-hug even more powerful.

 

Also to totally **** over all grinding FL :teethhappy:



DeadArashi #10 Posted 02 March 2019 - 04:56 PM

    Imperium Tech Priest

  • Member
  • 12631 battles
  • 1,707
  • Member since:
    05-31-2013

View PostAoyama_Blue_Mountain, on 02 March 2019 - 06:30 PM, said:

Right, so let's make something that is already unstoppable hull-down/face-hug even more powerful.

 

Also to totally **** over all grinding FL :teethhappy:

 

I wouldn't call it unstoppable. Hell, they're very stoppable. They have paper for side armour and terrible hull and turret traverse speeds. It just so happens that there's a lot of players that don't understand the concept of flanking or pushing while they reload :confused:

 

The French will still be relevant for their vastly better mobility and also higher clip potential



Angmar_ #11 Posted 03 March 2019 - 07:55 PM

    Corporal

  • Member
  • 18476 battles
  • 51
  • [LEFT] LEFT
  • Member since:
    12-28-2014
My biggest issue with the kranvagn is that 300 pen on its heat rounds just isn't enough vs type 5 heavies, don't mind it outside of that.

FramFramson #12 Posted 04 March 2019 - 06:47 AM

    Major

  • Member
  • 42231 battles
  • 3,441
  • [AVAST] AVAST
  • Member since:
    02-22-2015
It's a relatively minor point, but I appreciate the greater differentiation from the French AL HT line this brings.

LT-playing masochist. It's too much fun to be a mosquito.


CardinalMite #13 Posted 04 March 2019 - 08:45 AM

    First lieutenant

  • Member
  • 27655 battles
  • 971
  • Member since:
    04-18-2014

View PostFramFramson, on 03 March 2019 - 10:47 PM, said:

It's a relatively minor point, but I appreciate the greater differentiation from the French AL HT line this brings.

Agreed, I don't have a problem with them doing this, it makes sense to give them a different feel.

 

I just wish they would improve the lot of some of the overlooked tanks from older lines too.


“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

Vindictus_Maximus #14 Posted 04 March 2019 - 10:43 AM

    Corporal

  • Member
  • 3592 battles
  • 19
  • Member since:
    12-16-2017
Will they buff the EMIL1951 reward to the same clip potential? Might make the Frontline grind more worth it if they do.

Fluffy_Water_Bear #15 Posted 04 March 2019 - 06:02 PM

    wat

  • Member
  • 22343 battles
  • 143
  • [BLAP] BLAP
  • Member since:
    07-28-2013

View PostAoyama_Blue_Mountain, on 02 March 2019 - 04:30 PM, said:

Right, so let's make something that is already unstoppable hull-down/face-hug even more powerful.

 

Also to totally **** over all grinding FL :teethhappy:

 

and that's the only place where they are 'unstoppable'. Everywhere else the tanks are trash currently. I think its more of a lets make them better in other situations type buff.

Twit_ #16 Posted 05 March 2019 - 03:19 PM

    Corporal

  • Member
  • 14092 battles
  • 68
  • [F-S] F-S
  • Member since:
    11-28-2017
I suppose the question has to be asked.... Buffed Kran or T57?

Want to learn about World of Tanks and how to play it? Click the below link to find out more:  

http://forum.worldoftanks.asia/index.php?/topic/82500-a-general-guide-to-playing-world-of-tanks/ 

 


DeadArashi #17 Posted 05 March 2019 - 05:26 PM

    Imperium Tech Priest

  • Member
  • 12631 battles
  • 1,707
  • Member since:
    05-31-2013

View PostTwit_, on 05 March 2019 - 05:19 PM, said:

I suppose the question has to be asked.... Buffed Kran or T57?

 

How would you buff the T57? More speed? Better aim time? Better accuracy on the move? more gun depression?

 

If anything the AMX 50B might need some more love then the T57. Arguably more so then the Kranvagn. T57 is still widely used because of its high DPM and high clip damage



Ezz #18 Posted 05 March 2019 - 05:30 PM

    How many flipping posts do I need to get past Major?

  • Beta-Tester
  • 65665 battles
  • 35,593
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    07-17-2012
What's the bet they just find the least common tank and buff that?

Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

>9000 cynicism brought to you by P2W, RIP Balance and the Cartoon Connection

Currently moderating your English speaking community : AALGMadibaCenturion_NZ, Elite911, Moonbase Patrol Copter 7

R. Pubbie: "why are all PBKAC players so rude, arrogant and nasty? and why do Mods favor them?"


Fluffy_Water_Bear #19 Posted 05 March 2019 - 05:35 PM

    wat

  • Member
  • 22343 battles
  • 143
  • [BLAP] BLAP
  • Member since:
    07-28-2013

View PostEzz, on 05 March 2019 - 05:30 PM, said:

What's the bet they just find the least common tank and buff that?

Sooo 121? All I can do is pray.



Ezz #20 Posted 05 March 2019 - 05:39 PM

    How many flipping posts do I need to get past Major?

  • Beta-Tester
  • 65665 battles
  • 35,593
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    07-17-2012

View PostFluffy_Water_Bear, on 05 March 2019 - 07:35 PM, said:

Sooo 121? All I can do is pray.

 

Didn't they already give it 3 degrees to 3.5 degrees or something? Extra 20m radio range perhaps?

Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

>9000 cynicism brought to you by P2W, RIP Balance and the Cartoon Connection

Currently moderating your English speaking community : AALGMadibaCenturion_NZ, Elite911, Moonbase Patrol Copter 7

R. Pubbie: "why are all PBKAC players so rude, arrogant and nasty? and why do Mods favor them?"





1 user(s) are reading this topic

1 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


    CptShiner