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How to Set the Engine on Fire


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cheapbooks_asia #1 Posted 31 May 2019 - 06:23 PM

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A video that explains how to set the engine on fire for an enemy tank. I test various guns, ammo, distances, and target spots on the tank.

 

- use the highest penetration gun

- use ammo that has high alpha damage

- aim for the lower axle

- aim for the lower center of the back of the tank where the engine is (along the axle)

 



Napalmer #2 Posted 01 June 2019 - 12:29 AM

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This video is incredibly inaccurate.

 

Firstly, why would you care about the highest penetration gun for a fire? You should be running that on most tanks anyway!

Secondly, implying that you need to use the ammo with the highest alpha damage is incorrect. If a HE shell doesn't pen it is unlikely to cause a fire.

Thirdly, aiming on specific spots has no impact on the chance of fire. The engine has a hitbox which you either hit or don't.

Fourthly, you fail to mention that each engine has a specific chance to catch on fire. That is calculated every single time you hit the engine hitbox.

And finally, you fail to mention the most effective way to set a tank on fire is to shoot the fuel tanks. Every module has HP.  When the Fuel Tanks HP reaches 0, the tank catches on fire.

 

You really don't seem to know what you're doing in most of your testing footage, considering you're shooting the front of the leopard at some point and expecting a fire.

I would strongly suggest you at least research game mechanics before making a guide instead of relying on confirmation bias to prove your points.


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neokai #3 Posted 01 June 2019 - 02:49 AM

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View PostNapalmer, on 01 June 2019 - 12:29 AM, said:

This video is incredibly inaccurate.

 

Firstly, why would you care about the highest penetration gun for a fire? You should be running that on most tanks anyway!

Secondly, implying that you need to use the ammo with the highest alpha damage is incorrect. If a HE shell doesn't pen it is unlikely to cause a fire.

Thirdly, aiming on specific spots has no impact on the chance of fire. The engine has a hitbox which you either hit or don't.

Fourthly, you fail to mention that each engine has a specific chance to catch on fire. That is calculated every single time you hit the engine hitbox.

And finally, you fail to mention the most effective way to set a tank on fire is to shoot the fuel tanks. Every module has HP.  When the Fuel Tanks HP reaches 0, the tank catches on fire.

 

You really don't seem to know what you're doing in most of your testing footage, considering you're shooting the front of the leopard at some point and expecting a fire.

I would strongly suggest you at least research game mechanics before making a guide instead of relying on confirmation bias to prove your points.

 

Regarding 2nd point - I presume he meant higher alpha after penetration, i.e. penetration is a non-issue. So for a Tiger 2, the 105mm gun will do better than the 88mm because of alpha in starting a fire. Also explains why 152mm guns tend to cause so much modular damage even with AP rounds.

 

Point 3 - aiming at the lower axle roughly approximates to where the engine hitbox is and in the video he did mention not to aim at the axle below the turret but to aim at the axle for the section away from the turret. I would go a step further and say aim at the midpoint between the top hull and tracks, at the side of the hull away from the turret for maximum chance.

 

Mechanically speaking chance of module taking damage follows the following algo (iirc):

  1. Did the round pen the hull?
  2. Does the path of the round go through the module?
    • there seems to be some RNG on travel path after penetration (to simulate shrapnel/tumbling after penetration)
  3. Dice roll - does the round do damage to the module? Not all rounds that travel through the module will do damage - and this is what makes Deadeye a secretly powerful secondary perk as it doubles the chance of module damage per shot.

 

For fires the following algo is used:

  1. Is engine/fuel tank at <50% hp (i.e., yellow module outline on UI)
  2. Dice roll - chance of fire on engine/chance of fire on fuel tank, depending on which yellowed module is hit.

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azls73 #4 Posted 01 June 2019 - 05:25 AM

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as for me,,,set fire,,are practically random shot !!

well i don't much care whether it is on fire as long it penetration.

if set on fire then a bonus for me and my team ,,

after all there is no official guide lines from WG Wiki or

may be they want to keep it confidential !!

cheers all

thanks


Edited by azls73, 01 June 2019 - 05:27 AM.


Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #5 Posted 01 June 2019 - 06:10 PM

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I know we give a lot of leeway to this subforum, but shouldn't a video with 31% dislike be kind of problematic for new players to watch?

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neokai #6 Posted 02 June 2019 - 04:31 AM

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View PostAoyama_Blue_Mountain, on 01 June 2019 - 06:10 PM, said:

I know we give a lot of leeway to this subforum, but shouldn't a video with 31% dislike be kind of problematic for new players to watch?

 

I  can only act if the video is "wrong", not if it is disliked. The reasons for disliking can be due to the presentation style (talking over a spreadsheet is pretty boring, even 4Tankers keeps the math fun by spending more time on the actual experiment setup rather than the data analysis).
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cheapbooks_asia #7 Posted 09 June 2019 - 08:10 PM

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View PostNapalmer, on 01 June 2019 - 12:29 AM, said:

This video is incredibly inaccurate.

 

Firstly, why would you care about the highest penetration gun for a fire? You should be running that on most tanks anyway!

Secondly, implying that you need to use the ammo with the highest alpha damage is incorrect. If a HE shell doesn't pen it is unlikely to cause a fire.

Thirdly, aiming on specific spots has no impact on the chance of fire. The engine has a hitbox which you either hit or don't.

Fourthly, you fail to mention that each engine has a specific chance to catch on fire. That is calculated every single time you hit the engine hitbox.

And finally, you fail to mention the most effective way to set a tank on fire is to shoot the fuel tanks. Every module has HP.  When the Fuel Tanks HP reaches 0, the tank catches on fire.

 

You really don't seem to know what you're doing in most of your testing footage, considering you're shooting the front of the leopard at some point and expecting a fire.

I would strongly suggest you at least research game mechanics before making a guide instead of relying on confirmation bias to prove your points.

 

I tested how to set the engine on fire as shown in my video and summary and I presented the conclusion. My conclusion is fully based on repeated testing.

 

Your conclusions are based on your opinion, and are not supported by the extensive testing I have done.



cheapbooks_asia #8 Posted 09 June 2019 - 08:13 PM

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View Postneokai, on 01 June 2019 - 02:49 AM, said:

 

Regarding 2nd point - I presume he meant higher alpha after penetration, i.e. penetration is a non-issue. So for a Tiger 2, the 105mm gun will do better than the 88mm because of alpha in starting a fire. Also explains why 152mm guns tend to cause so much modular damage even with AP rounds.

 

Point 3 - aiming at the lower axle roughly approximates to where the engine hitbox is and in the video he did mention not to aim at the axle below the turret but to aim at the axle for the section away from the turret. I would go a step further and say aim at the midpoint between the top hull and tracks, at the side of the hull away from the turret for maximum chance.

 

 

I tested high alpha guns and low alpha guns. the high alpha guns are more likely to start a fire.

 

aiming at the lower axle is the proper technique. hitting the axle can set the engine on fire, and hitting the engine can set the engine on fire. hit BOTH with the same shot increases the chance of a fire.

 

keep in mind they may have changed it, but I am sure at the time of testing that the transmission was considered to be part of the engine which is why you could start fires on german tanks by hitting them on the front axle.



cheapbooks_asia #9 Posted 09 June 2019 - 08:16 PM

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View PostNapalmer, on 01 June 2019 - 12:29 AM, said:

Thirdly, aiming on specific spots has no impact on the chance of fire. The engine has a hitbox which you either hit or don't.

 

 

I absolutely 100% guarantee you that the engine on most tanks is located in the exact same place. they do not put the engine on the side of the tank or on the top or in the turret. the engine is centered on all tanks (side to side) and aiming at the CENTER from the rear / front will hit the engine.

 

and guess what is located directly on the right and left side of the engine? do you think it is just empty space? it is the fuel tanks. I tried aiming at the fuel tanks and it was not the best way to set the engine on fire for the testing I did.

 

when I play in game I have a high success rate hitting aiming for the axle mid center.



neokai #10 Posted 10 June 2019 - 06:09 AM

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Interesting as your vids are, I'm concerned with your youtube info and its links. Please PM me to explain the issue ASAP.

 

~neokai


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cheapbooks_asia #11 Posted 10 June 2019 - 09:10 PM

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View Postneokai, on 10 June 2019 - 06:09 AM, said:

Interesting as your vids are, I'm concerned with your youtube info and its links. Please PM me to explain the issue ASAP.

 

~neokai

 

it says I cannot message you until I have more posts in the forum.

 

what youtube info / links are you referring to? 



mttspiii #12 Posted 11 June 2019 - 12:29 AM

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View Postcheapbooks_asia, on 09 June 2019 - 08:13 PM, said:

aiming at the lower axle is the proper technique. hitting the axle can set the engine on fire, and hitting the engine can set the engine on fire. hit BOTH with the same shot increases the chance of a fire.

 

keep in mind they may have changed it, but I am sure at the time of testing that the transmission was considered to be part of the engine which is why you could start fires on german tanks by hitting them on the front axle.

 

Hold up. You mean you've been testing way back 2013-2015 and did not account for WG 0%-ing the fire chance by transmission hits?


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obj_19 #13 Posted 12 March 2020 - 05:13 PM

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tip on how to oneshot all the M4 variants, T1 heavy and the M6 variants in a KV-2. load HE and shoot the rear inbetween the tracks (this part is colored red in primer on some tanks) just below the upside down U shaped rear guard thingy. do this in other tanks with ap and have fun setting it on fire after a few tries. but guaranteed to damage the engine well. HE the matilda in the same place and have fun.

 


Edited by obj_19, 12 March 2020 - 05:15 PM.

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Captain_Cows #14 Posted 12 March 2020 - 09:21 PM

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How did u test you have zero battles :) 

 



SadSack #15 Posted 13 March 2020 - 02:59 PM

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Thank you OP

I say good on you for going to all this effort and then sharing it!
The ONLY real data you can truest IS what you test yourself, you certainly cant rely on WG data for example an engine with 620HP instead of your current engine of 560HP you think "oh that's hardly worth it" but IF you obtain it you find out the tank is now almost twice as quick, again real data vs "supposed' Wg statistics.


 

 

please remove premium ammo from random battles





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