Jump to content


New British LTs discussion


  • Please log in to reply
364 replies to this topic

CardinalMite #1 Posted 29 June 2019 - 02:23 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 29196 battles
  • 1,156
  • Member since:
    04-18-2014

https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2019/06/28/world-of-tanks-supertest-high-tier-british-light-tanks/

 

Looks like these are coming soon. Supposed to feature very good camo with guns (at least on the tier 10 shown) specced for sniping. So good pen for an LT but poor dpm. These will not be brawling with other LTs...


“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

Ezz #2 Posted 29 June 2019 - 02:30 PM

    How many flipping posts do I need to get past Major?

  • Beta-Tester
  • 68232 battles
  • 36,086
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    07-17-2012
'Outstanding guns', specced for sniping... 0.38 accuracy with poor dpm and pen. Well good for a light as you note, but that's like saying something is better than the churchill gun carrier. Basically a more mobile and camo'd version of the old leo with way worse gun which already sucked at that sniping role anyway. Based on what we've seen it will get chewed up if any other light finds it... well any other tank really. So you are going to be confined to a passive role, which realistically isn't useful on at least 75% of the maps anyway.

Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

>9000 cynicism brought to you by P2W, RIP Balance and the Cartoon Connection

Currently moderating your English speaking community : AALGMadibaCenturion_NZ, Elite911, Moonbase Patrol Copter 7

R. Pubbie: "why are all PBKAC players so rude, arrogant and nasty? and why do Mods favor them?"


CardinalMite #3 Posted 29 June 2019 - 02:54 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 29196 battles
  • 1,156
  • Member since:
    04-18-2014

It's a bit inconsistent really, they originally nerfed  high tier LTs with massive pen drop off and reduced view range (to force you to use optics over vents), so that LTs would not be good snipers.

 

And now they release a line of LT snipers.. only ones with poor accuracy...

 

Wut?

 

Basically I  think they did wheelies and thought ok.. let's do the opposite next..

 

Whether these will work or not at all is going to depend greatly on exactly how great the camo and view range is going to be, even then you will need the right maps...

 

Dunno... this seems like design by magic 8 ball.


“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #4 Posted 29 June 2019 - 06:01 PM

    Blue Mountain Aoyama

  • Beta-Tester
  • 74947 battles
  • 7,478
  • [DADDY] DADDY
  • Member since:
    05-30-2012
So, basically ELC EVEN but in the tech tree and no autoloader.

Noobs don't snipe because they are good at snipe; noobs snipe because they can't do anything else / People don't lose because they lemming; people lemming because they are losers

Do not confuse team strength with individual strength; a single enemy killed in a 1v3 is worth more than two enemies killed in a 4v2 / Lanchester's Square Law predicts in a 2v1, the side with 2 will end with 1.5 tanks remaining, so if you won with less than that remaining, you're actually noob, not pro

When you are not losing because you outnumber the enemy, your other flank is losing because they are outnumbered; it's just math

Law of mirror: When you are holding a 1v6 against the enemy, you own team is also getting 6v1 held by the enemy

Noob self-balancing theory: When you release a good tank, enough noobs will flood to play it, until the server stats become average again


HexHammer #5 Posted 29 June 2019 - 10:31 PM

    Staff sergeant

  • Member
  • 33483 battles
  • 415
  • Member since:
    06-05-2016

The Manticore will be a strong LT if it makes it through with those stats.

 

Accurate, High pen gun with 268 APCR. Fast and good acceleration. Decent gun depression. Nice view range and presumably good camo will help with map control. This tank ticks most of my boxes - Low DPM and iffy dispersion is a workable trade off IMO. Anyone that has had experience in teh rear mounted French LTs and Meds will slip right into this tank no problems

 

I have almost grinded the EBR 105m and frankly I am not sure that the EBR ticks nearly as many boxes as this one. 



CardinalMite #6 Posted 29 June 2019 - 11:28 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 29196 battles
  • 1,156
  • Member since:
    04-18-2014

I would not form too much if a conclusion yet, we don't know what the pen drop off over range will be... We don't know how good the camo Will be. We don't know what the soft  stats will really be like, especially the gun ones.

 


“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

mttspiii #7 Posted 30 June 2019 - 02:04 AM

    Major

  • Beta-Tester
  • 31606 battles
  • 17,023
  • [CALM] CALM
  • Member since:
    04-15-2012
So basically it's an LT that can't do the important task of securing important advance positions, thus meaning the enemy will get the initial damage on your team. You'd have to then claw map control back (since you can't contest them in the initial rush), against a fortified foe, using wounded teammates.

It's basically gonna suffer in Mines and Abbey ("rush center" maps), but might be of use in the slow hide-and-seek games of Prohorovka and Karelia.

What bothers me is that WG didn't flesh out the tech tree all the way down (Harry Hopkins, Tetrarch, old Crusader, FV301), but I'm pleasantly surprised that WG went out of the way to avoid the obvious choices (A46, FV301, FV101, TV-15000, Vickers 24t) and yet managed to make a coherent - albeit chronologically reversed - tech line that describes the Scorpion's development without even mentioning it: the tier 7 is the 1964 proposal, the tier 8 is from the late 50's, the tier 9 is from 1960, and the tier X from 1955. Not sure where FV1066 came from though.

Also, if WG releases UK wheelies expect the names to be weird ang long like FV-1000, GSR 3358, GSR 1106 and the like

I'm fierce and I'm feeling mighty,

I'm a golden girl, I'm an Aphrodite

 

 


CardinalMite #8 Posted 30 June 2019 - 09:08 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 29196 battles
  • 1,156
  • Member since:
    04-18-2014

More information including some soft stats, aim spreads after firing, movement, turret & camo.

 

https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2019/06/29/wot-supertest-manticore/#more-71298


“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

Ezz #9 Posted 30 June 2019 - 09:12 AM

    How many flipping posts do I need to get past Major?

  • Beta-Tester
  • 68232 battles
  • 36,086
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    07-17-2012

Wasn't 0.18 roughly the dispersion the Leo had pre buffs, but with way worse base accuracy? Also interested to see if that camo includes crew / paint or is base.


Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

>9000 cynicism brought to you by P2W, RIP Balance and the Cartoon Connection

Currently moderating your English speaking community : AALGMadibaCenturion_NZ, Elite911, Moonbase Patrol Copter 7

R. Pubbie: "why are all PBKAC players so rude, arrogant and nasty? and why do Mods favor them?"


HexHammer #10 Posted 30 June 2019 - 09:59 PM

    Staff sergeant

  • Member
  • 33483 battles
  • 415
  • Member since:
    06-05-2016

So this Manticore is about the same size as an EVEN90, with all the OP benefits that low profile gives. On top of that an amazing 36% camo, and very nice 400m viewrange, once this thing is decked out with good equipment, crew and food, it will be the EVEN90 on steroroids....

 

Funny going through the Armored Patrol thread all those guys talking about how weak this tank will be. Those are the same clowns that said the EBR 75 and EVEN90 were going t0 be weak, the same braindead HT players taling their rubbish one weak, complaining about toxic invisitanks the next week.,

 

The gun is plenty good enough, dispersion will be laser like when stationary, nice speed,reverse speed, P/W and gun depression. God I hope these stats go through unchanged, have always wondered what a faster, superior EVEN90 with a big gun would be like.

 

 



Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #11 Posted 30 June 2019 - 10:24 PM

    Blue Mountain Aoyama

  • Beta-Tester
  • 74947 battles
  • 7,478
  • [DADDY] DADDY
  • Member since:
    05-30-2012

Remember when the average player (i.e. 49%) was good at this game?

 

Nope, don't remember either.


Noobs don't snipe because they are good at snipe; noobs snipe because they can't do anything else / People don't lose because they lemming; people lemming because they are losers

Do not confuse team strength with individual strength; a single enemy killed in a 1v3 is worth more than two enemies killed in a 4v2 / Lanchester's Square Law predicts in a 2v1, the side with 2 will end with 1.5 tanks remaining, so if you won with less than that remaining, you're actually noob, not pro

When you are not losing because you outnumber the enemy, your other flank is losing because they are outnumbered; it's just math

Law of mirror: When you are holding a 1v6 against the enemy, you own team is also getting 6v1 held by the enemy

Noob self-balancing theory: When you release a good tank, enough noobs will flood to play it, until the server stats become average again


Ezz #12 Posted 30 June 2019 - 10:50 PM

    How many flipping posts do I need to get past Major?

  • Beta-Tester
  • 68232 battles
  • 36,086
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    07-17-2012
You do realise the even has a clip while this thing won't right? Beyond that not sure anyone ever called 0.38 laser like dispersion.

Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

>9000 cynicism brought to you by P2W, RIP Balance and the Cartoon Connection

Currently moderating your English speaking community : AALGMadibaCenturion_NZ, Elite911, Moonbase Patrol Copter 7

R. Pubbie: "why are all PBKAC players so rude, arrogant and nasty? and why do Mods favor them?"


Profanisaurus #13 Posted 01 July 2019 - 05:28 AM

    le sigh

  • Member
  • 2017 battles
  • 4,435
  • [PBFG] PBFG
  • Member since:
    02-19-2013
I'm baffled as to why you would do it from the Cromwell when you could put the Crusader back to a light tank and there are two decent candidates for a tier 6 light (Cavalier and FV301). Can only think they want to make sure people have to spend some gold or credits to retrain a light crew into meds and back into lights if they grind the line from scratch.
Thanks Conan - (Insert Eggplant here)

CardinalMite #14 Posted 01 July 2019 - 05:47 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 29196 battles
  • 1,156
  • Member since:
    04-18-2014

Yeah I was hoping the same, that at least the Crusader would go back to LT status...

 

I suspect that going from Cromwell though was mainly just to save time and effort with design and balance, given how many players skip at least the first 4 tiers of a line.


Edited by CardinalMite, 01 July 2019 - 05:47 AM.

“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

Profanisaurus #15 Posted 01 July 2019 - 05:54 AM

    le sigh

  • Member
  • 2017 battles
  • 4,435
  • [PBFG] PBFG
  • Member since:
    02-19-2013
The Cavalier and FV already have half the model done with the Crommie and Bert is what is frustrating.
Thanks Conan - (Insert Eggplant here)

CardinalMite #16 Posted 01 July 2019 - 06:11 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 29196 battles
  • 1,156
  • Member since:
    04-18-2014

Apparently 16 rounds of ammo on supertest...

 

Wut? I know the RoF is low but still....

 

The problem with low ammo count is not so much that you will run out per se but that because it is low you will be highly limited in the types of ammo you will carry. Removing tactical options is pretty much always a crap idea.

If you can always only carry such a small loadout then you might as well fully load premium ammo. It isn't as if running tier 10 is normally credit neutral and with such low dpm it won't even cost that much to be 100% premium loaded.

And when you know that you have to wait a glacial ice age between shots you don't want to fall foul of RNG and pen drop off to waste the precious few opportunities to deal damage. 

 

Really poor balance design.


“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

HexHammer #17 Posted 01 July 2019 - 07:37 AM

    Staff sergeant

  • Member
  • 33483 battles
  • 415
  • Member since:
    06-05-2016

View PostEzz, on 30 June 2019 - 10:50 PM, said:

You do realise the even has a clip while this thing won't right? Beyond that not sure anyone ever called 0.38 laser like dispersion.

 

Once decked out the dispersion comes down to a very acceptable .35 with turret rotation dispersion about the same as the Leapord1. The gun basically will be as accurate as the t-54, with a turret bloom of the Leapord1, which is a very good sniper gun by most people's reckoning. And it is a very punchy gun for a LT

 

But the EVEN90 was never about the gun. The gun sucks, and the long loading auto loader is in many cases a weakness. The EVEN90 is all about the camo and map control, and hiding in small bushes and defiles where no other tank in the game can hide.  The EVEN90 is often OP in tier10 games, the Manticore (if it makes it through with these stats) will be able to do what the EVEN can do, only much, much better.

 

Anyone that has played the EVEN90 will understand how strong the Manticore will be, the ultimate invistank, fast,a  with a big gun.

 

 

 

 



HexHammer #18 Posted 01 July 2019 - 07:52 AM

    Staff sergeant

  • Member
  • 33483 battles
  • 415
  • Member since:
    06-05-2016

View PostCardinalMite, on 01 July 2019 - 06:11 AM, said:

 The problem with low ammo count is not so much that you will run out per se but that because it is low you will be highly limited in the types of ammo you will carry. Removing tactical options is pretty much always a crap idea.

If you can always only carry such a small loadout then you might as well fully load premium ammo. It isn't as if running tier 10 is normally credit neutral and with such low dpm it won't even cost that much to be 100% premium loaded.

And when you know that you have to wait a glacial ice age between shots you don't want to fall foul of RNG and pen drop off to waste the precious few opportunities to deal damage. 

 

Really poor balance design.

 

You have to remember that this tank is not designed to be a combat brawler. It is designed to be a stealth LT. one that gets it's XP and credits for spotting and assist.

 

Anyway, even if you only shoot four penetrating shots, that is 1600 damage, which is acceptable, I would say 8xAP, 10xAPCR will be plenty enough ammo.



CardinalMite #19 Posted 01 July 2019 - 08:31 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 29196 battles
  • 1,156
  • Member since:
    04-18-2014

View PostHexHammer, on 30 June 2019 - 11:52 PM, said:

 

You have to remember that this tank is not designed to be a combat brawler. It is designed to be a stealth LT. one that gets it's XP and credits for spotting and assist.

 

Anyway, even if you only shoot four penetrating shots, that is 1600 damage, which is acceptable, I would say 8xAP, 10xAPCR will be plenty enough ammo.

Actually 4 slightly higher than average rolls is 1600, but hey could happen.. 

 

I get that this tank is not supposed to brawl and sure it is clearly designed as a passive spotter. But do you honestly think that with dpm that low people are going to risk shooting anything other than premium ammo with the few chances they get to fire?

 

Also comparing it with the T54 gun is a bit disingenuous given:

 

a) the high RoF poor dispersion gun is on a tank perfectly designed for brawling.

 

b) 330 lolpen  heat with no loss of pen at range.

 

c) the other gun has like what like 0.33 base dispersion? Before you give it food and a great crew etc. And still has better dpm.


Edited by CardinalMite, 01 July 2019 - 08:53 AM.

“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

Ezz #20 Posted 01 July 2019 - 08:57 AM

    How many flipping posts do I need to get past Major?

  • Beta-Tester
  • 68232 battles
  • 36,086
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    07-17-2012
He's also greatly overstating the effectiveness of passive scouting in upper tier pub play.  But given how early in development this thing is I guess we can hope wg make it a little more worthwhile to grind. As is it will be a liability on the majority of maps, and that's just compared to the other lights.

Edited by Ezz, 01 July 2019 - 08:58 AM.

Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

>9000 cynicism brought to you by P2W, RIP Balance and the Cartoon Connection

Currently moderating your English speaking community : AALGMadibaCenturion_NZ, Elite911, Moonbase Patrol Copter 7

R. Pubbie: "why are all PBKAC players so rude, arrogant and nasty? and why do Mods favor them?"





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users