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New British LTs discussion


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Mudguts_Cheese #21 Posted 01 July 2019 - 09:10 AM

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Run me through how a stealthy, but sluggish Tier 10 light, with lower quartile Med Tank gun handling and poor DPM is going to give us map control on say Ensk, Himmelsdork, Ruinscapeberg, Paris, Abbey, Mines etc?

HexHammer #22 Posted 02 July 2019 - 10:20 AM

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View PostCardinalMite, on 01 July 2019 - 08:31 AM, said:

 I get that this tank is not supposed to brawl and sure it is clearly designed as a passive spotter. But do you honestly think that with dpm that low people are going to risk shooting anything other than premium ammo with the few chances they get to fire?

 

 

For those that don't care about the expense, yes you would probably load full APCR, and fork out 50k per game to play it. But for those that want to actually make money on this tank, it has amazing 240pen AP with decent shell velocity, and it will get HEAPS of assist. You could quite comfortable just run AP on this tank to be honest, those AP rounds are not much worse than tier10 HT standard rounds.

 

In any case the current stats on this thing make it too OP as it currently stands, it will definitely be nerfed,  the question is what nerfs will be applied to this tank to make it more balanced.

 

I think they will keep the camo and viewrange as is, because it is meant to be a stealth LT. But will nerf the gun and ammo. I guess they will increase dispersion, aim time, lower the AP pen. Slightly reduce reverse speed and lower P/W ratio closer to 30

 

It is too OP as it currently is, they need to make the gun horrible like they did to the EVEN90. Remember how everyone said the EVEN90 was a crap tank because the gun sucked, and it turned out to be OP?  So long at they keep the size of the tank, and camo and viewrange, I will definitely grind this tank, even if the gun sucks



HexHammer #23 Posted 02 July 2019 - 10:26 AM

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View PostMudguts4710, on 01 July 2019 - 09:10 AM, said:

Run me through how a stealthy, but sluggish Tier 10 light, with lower quartile Med Tank gun handling and poor DPM is going to give us map control on say Ensk, Himmelsdork, Ruinscapeberg, Paris, Abbey, Mines etc?

 

If you are a skilled player in LTs, there are no bad maps. The ones you listed above offer a chance of a decent game, and most of the others are awesome for LTs. That is why I mainly play them these days.

 

And you need to play the EVEN90 to understand how well it can hide in places no other LT can get away with. The Manticore is going to be tiny as well, you should grind it, they are super fun



Ezz #24 Posted 02 July 2019 - 10:27 AM

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You aren't related to the gent who is convinced the 432 needs a buff by any chance are you? Perhaps you just haven't come to grips with the upper tiers. Either way, 'definitely be nerfed' sounds almost like when some pubbies thought the 268.4 needed a buff.

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Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #25 Posted 02 July 2019 - 11:00 AM

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A reminder that Batchat gun is also 0.38 and unicums snipe in it

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Ezz #26 Posted 02 July 2019 - 11:06 AM

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A reminder the rhm pzw is more accurate, better dispersion, better shell velocity, has 6mm less pen, has better mobility, better view range, worse camo, has significantly more comfortable elevation, and puts out about 450 more damage a minute, with more than double the damage potential... and is considered by many as the worst tier 10 in the game.

 

View PostAoyama_Blue_Mountain, on 02 July 2019 - 01:00 PM, said:

A reminder that Batchat gun is also 0.38 and unicums snipe in it

That's because they watched the video on all the best sniping positions.

 

Probably also worth mentioning that a bat with a clip of 5 still has about 600 better DPM than a manticore, all with better pen and of course the potential for heat if they absolutely need it. You'd be able to shoot all 5 of the shells before the manticore has even reload after its first!


Edited by Ezz, 02 July 2019 - 11:20 AM.

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CardinalMite #27 Posted 02 July 2019 - 11:07 AM

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View PostEzz, on 02 July 2019 - 02:27 AM, said:

You aren't related to the gent who is convinced the 432 needs a buff by any chance are you? Perhaps you just haven't come to grips with the upper tiers. Either way, 'definitely be nerfed' sounds almost like when some pubbies thought the 268.4 needed a buff.

You know I had the exact same thought.


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CardinalMite #28 Posted 02 July 2019 - 11:13 AM

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View PostHexHammer, on 02 July 2019 - 02:20 AM, said:

 

For those that don't care about the expense, yes you would probably load full APCR, and fork out 50k per game to play it. But for those that want to actually make money on this tank, it has amazing 240pen AP with decent shell velocity, and it will get HEAPS of assist. You could quite comfortable just run AP on this tank to be honest, those AP rounds are not much worse than tier10 HT standard rounds.

 

In any case the current stats on this thing make it too OP as it currently stands, it will definitely be nerfed,  the question is what nerfs will be applied to this tank to make it more balanced.

 

I think they will keep the camo and viewrange as is, because it is meant to be a stealth LT. But will nerf the gun and ammo. I guess they will increase dispersion, aim time, lower the AP pen. Slightly reduce reverse speed and lower P/W ratio closer to 30

 

It is too OP as it currently is, they need to make the gun horrible like they did to the EVEN90. Remember how everyone said the EVEN90 was a crap tank because the gun sucked, and it turned out to be OP?  So long at they keep the size of the tank, and camo and viewrange, I will definitely grind this tank, even if the gun sucks

But according to you, you are only likely to shoot 4 times, how is that going to cost 50k per battle?

 

Also amazing 240pen won't be all that amazing if it suffers the same % drop off at range as all the other LTs. You are aware that LTs have a different pen drop through range compared to other classes right?

 

And you think the gun needs further nerfing ...? Because it is too OP right now...

 

...Ok... [backs away making no sudden movements]


Edited by CardinalMite, 02 July 2019 - 11:14 AM.

“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

 

"It's like you literally dont read your own posts, let alone others, make up instead what you wished others said, then put a non-sensical counter argument to that imagined post."

 

"Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level then beat you with experience."


Ezz #29 Posted 02 July 2019 - 11:39 AM

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View PostCardinalMite, on 02 July 2019 - 01:13 PM, said:

Because it is too OP right now...

To be fair the majority of his light gameplay is in the lower tiers where vision and staying passive can indeed by useful. The issue is that in the upper tiers things are substantially different. The passive vision game itself is both more challenging and with lower potential due in large part to vision saturation, the fairly standard SS on everything you face, the basic competency of the players, the increase in armor, the accuracy of guns you face etc..

 

Either way, given some of WG's previous releases you just never know, maybe they will nerf it.


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Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #30 Posted 02 July 2019 - 11:47 AM

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Reminded me of a HWK30 owner who overextends his scouting on prok and dies without much spotting damage, then blames low camo and not his knowledge.

 

All his researched scout tanks were tier 4 or lower.


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Ezz #31 Posted 02 July 2019 - 11:52 AM

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Anyway, less about him more about the tank. I saw mentioned that there may have been some sort of loading mechanism in these (i expect mtsp1111iii to correct me on this), but giving this an autoreloader could indeed bring it back into usefulness. Tho given what it does for the italians and the is3a, then indeed it could be a little op. Woops, sorry bluey, ignore the is3a, it's still horrible.......

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mttspiii #32 Posted 02 July 2019 - 02:13 PM

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View PostHexHammer, on 01 July 2019 - 07:37 AM, said:

The gun basically will be as accurate as the t-54, with a turret bloom of the Leapord1, which is a very good sniper gun by most people's reckoning.

 

You just mentioned the worst aspects of the T-54 and the Leopard 1, and are saying that an LT with both these traits are going to be OP?

 

Uhm. Yes. I respect the EVEN 90's passive-hiding ability, but so few maps cater to the "camo crawl" gameplay: You'd have to claw back map control which you've lost in the initial moves of the battle. And that isn't even a sure-win strategy: when your opponent has a hard-to-hit wheelie you'd get thrashed.

When your opponent has a Stalinium LT you die.

When your opponent has an MT with ultra-buffed VR you die.

When your opponent has a tier 9 heavium with good speed, armor, and 400m view range vanilla you die.

When your opponent has an SPG with knowledge of obvious bush spots you die.

When your opponent has a Swede cheesewedge your teammates die...and you die shortly after.

 

View PostEzz, on 02 July 2019 - 11:52 AM, said:

I saw mentioned that there may have been some sort of loading mechanism in these (i expect mtsp1111iii to correct me on this), but giving this an autoreloader could indeed bring it back into usefulness.

 

Spoiler

 

It's not a drum autoloader, looks more like a rack / belt loader like IS-7, IS-3A, or the Std.B. WG could give it an autoreloader, but if you've got only 16 shells with craptastic DPM, dropping in an autoreloader mechanic with that post-firing dispersion you'd still get the same effective reload time and DPG anyway.


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CardinalMite #33 Posted 02 July 2019 - 02:34 PM

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I see your point, although being able to pick your moment and burst 2 or 3 shells at least allows you to take advantage of and punish an out of position tank even if the overall dpm is the same.

 

Although the aim time after firing could screw you there I'll admit.


Edited by CardinalMite, 02 July 2019 - 02:35 PM.

“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

 

"It's like you literally dont read your own posts, let alone others, make up instead what you wished others said, then put a non-sensical counter argument to that imagined post."

 

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Ezz #34 Posted 02 July 2019 - 02:38 PM

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View Postmttspiii, on 02 July 2019 - 04:13 PM, said:

with that post-firing dispersion you'd still get the same effective reload time and DPG anyway.

But at least a semblance of protection at short range. As is this thing will have worse DPM than basically every single thing it faces (including the 8s).

 

As to the 16 shells... yeah nah dunno. It's WG balanz i guess.


Edited by Ezz, 02 July 2019 - 02:38 PM.

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mttspiii #35 Posted 02 July 2019 - 02:58 PM

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It really could be nicer with a really slow inter-clip (say, 6 seconds minimum?), but double-400 alpha is enough to take 2/3 the HP of a tier 9 LT. A 3-Manticore platoon can kill an IS-7 in a two-shell clip if all shots penetrate.

 

While really useful, it seems WG really wants to kneecap this tank as a long-range fighter. Fingers crossed for Supertest (AKA how badly would it affect RU armoured superiority?)


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HexHammer #36 Posted 03 July 2019 - 09:14 AM

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View PostEzz, on 02 July 2019 - 10:27 AM, said:

  Perhaps you just haven't come to grips with the upper tiers. Either way, 'definitely be nerfed' sounds almost like when some pubbies thought the 268.4 needed a buff.

 

I am purple-blue in high tier light tanks, played a lot of rear mounted French LTs and Meds, very experienced in the ELC, certainly enough experience know what I am talking about. I am better than you in the AMX-12t, Amx1375, AMX 1390, and you completely freeXPd past the B-C12t and have never played the EVEN90.

 

What is certain is that they always start high with OP stats in the Supertest phase to pique interest, then peel the stats away, the Manticore is OP with the current stats and expect significant nerfs.

 

Tier 10 is dead and rather pointless at this stage of the game cycle anyway, at least in ASIA, due to the effective death of meaningful clanwars, and lack of any other meaningful endgame content. However, interesting new LTs like the Manticore will get a temporary return from players like me just to give them a try, I hope your dreams of buffing this OP tank come to pass - i will definately come back and play for a while for that -  big nerfs are most likely though,.

 

 


Edited by HexHammer, 03 July 2019 - 09:23 AM.


Ezz #37 Posted 03 July 2019 - 09:52 AM

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Ah ok, didn't realise this was just your alt. Do tell your actual account where you have done ok in the upper tiers. Eg this account appears to be about 53 in your 13 90 so clearly isn't the one you mean when you say you do better than mine. Nor does it even have a 13 75 unless I've gone blind. But anyway the issue is mostly trying to find a reason for your unusual opinion on balance. Your performance in the upper tiers on this account clearly indicates you haven't come to grips with the gameplay yet. Which of course is fine, explains your opinion, and still isn't really the point here.


Edited by Ezz, 03 July 2019 - 09:59 AM.

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CardinalMite #38 Posted 03 July 2019 - 10:03 AM

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Do we know if the stated camo values are base or with 100% crew or something else?

“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

 

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Ezz #39 Posted 03 July 2019 - 10:13 AM

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View PostCardinalMite, on 03 July 2019 - 12:03 PM, said:

Do we know if the stated camo values are base or with 100% crew or something else?

20.5 base so a tad better than the t100lt, a tad worse than the ebr. For comparison the even 90 is about 22 base. In other words we're talking about something with worse camo than an even trying to make it as a camo sniper passive thing in a tier where the average base view range is usually at least 20m higher, all while lacking much of a gun to do it with.

https://ritastatusreport.live/2019/07/01/wot-supertest-manticore-tier-x-british-lt/


Edited by Ezz, 03 July 2019 - 10:15 AM.

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CardinalMite #40 Posted 03 July 2019 - 10:32 AM

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Yeah I just can't square it, the camo is good but it just isn't that much better than say a T100 or Amx 13 105. The alpha is not even better than all other LTs to make up for such a long reload. Its good sure but no way near enough to compensate for all the deficiencies in aim time, accuracy, otm dispersion, reload etc.

 

The opposition view range at tier 10 with good crew skills just burns through so much camo. You'd want way more camo to be functionally equivalent in an all tier 10 battle  to an elc even 90 in an all tier 8 game. 

 

Alternatively you'd need either significantly more single shot alpha or some kind of clip. Maybe a 2 shot with otherwise similar stats and a 3 second intraclip would work.


“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

 

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