Jump to content


New British LTs discussion


  • Please log in to reply
432 replies to this topic

Ezz #41 Posted 03 July 2019 - 11:03 AM

    How many flipping posts do I need to get past Major?

  • Beta-Tester
  • 69277 battles
  • 36,266
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    07-17-2012

View PostCardinalMite, on 03 July 2019 - 12:32 PM, said:

Yeah I just can't square it

And that's the thing - if hex came out with commentary on it being fairly balanced then that wouldn't have been a massive deal. Many tanks have good and bad points that will work or not depending on map / meta etc.. But to shift to the far end of the spectrum straight to 'definitely OP' with 'big nerfs' more likely is contrary to the vast majority of opinions. This thing isn't even a one trick pony like some of tanks in game. Given present stats it's basically a zero trick pony. Clag.


Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

>9000 cynicism brought to you by P2W, RIP Balance and the Cartoon Connection

Currently moderating your English speaking community : AALGMadibaCenturion_NZ, Elite911, Moonbase Patrol Copter 7

R. Pubbie: "why are all PBKAC players so rude, arrogant and nasty? and why do Mods favor them?"


AlexTheKid72 #42 Posted 03 July 2019 - 01:49 PM

    Sergeant

  • Member
  • 24020 battles
  • 142
  • [SABRE] SABRE
  • Member since:
    05-28-2017

View PostAoyama_Blue_Mountain, on 02 July 2019 - 11:47 AM, said:

Reminded me of a HWK30 owner who overextends his scouting on prok and dies without much spotting damage, then blames low camo and not his knowledge.

 

All his researched scout tanks were tier 4 or lower.

Phew! I have t7 scouts :P Thought that was me for a second :P



CardinalMite #43 Posted 03 July 2019 - 11:40 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 29621 battles
  • 1,250
  • Member since:
    04-18-2014

Details on the tier 9. I only just looked at it briefly and maybe I am missing something but I think I would prefer to play this in a tier 10 battle than the tier 10 Manticore....

 

https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2019/07/03/wot-supertest-tier-ix-british-light-tank-gsor3301-avr-fs/#more-71412

 

Not that I think it is great mind you, just less one dimensional than the tier 10. Dpm is still tragic but RoF and aim time are much better, so your opportunity to shoot will be significantly better even if the alpha is worse.

 

One interesting thought, specs listed based on the top 90mm gun but I did see via a WoT News YouTube link, that it also has a stock 85mm gun with 230 alpha and 226 pen. That isn't much worse than the top gun, it might possibly be an interesting alternative, depending on the aim time, RoF and general gun handling. Typically smaller stock guns have higher RoF, so it isn't impossible that it could be a more useful gun.

 

Unfortunately I haven't seen anything really talk about the 85mm specs beyond pen and alpha.


Edited by CardinalMite, 04 July 2019 - 06:19 AM.

“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

 

"It's like you literally dont read your own posts, let alone others, make up instead what you wished others said, then put a non-sensical counter argument to that imagined post."


Ezz #44 Posted 04 July 2019 - 07:11 AM

    How many flipping posts do I need to get past Major?

  • Beta-Tester
  • 69277 battles
  • 36,266
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    07-17-2012

Definitely op, big nerfs coming.


Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

>9000 cynicism brought to you by P2W, RIP Balance and the Cartoon Connection

Currently moderating your English speaking community : AALGMadibaCenturion_NZ, Elite911, Moonbase Patrol Copter 7

R. Pubbie: "why are all PBKAC players so rude, arrogant and nasty? and why do Mods favor them?"


HexHammer #45 Posted 04 July 2019 - 07:34 AM

    Staff sergeant

  • Member
  • 33533 battles
  • 430
  • Member since:
    06-05-2016

I will explain to you in pictures.

 

Now lets compare the stats of the Even90 and all the other premiums

 

It has the worst Firepower, Gunhandling, Mobility, Armour, Health , Viewrange. In many cases abysmal compared to the rest. Yet it is the second highest performer (noobmeter stats)

 

<a href='http://oi65.tinypic.com/2j5hxll.jpg' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://oi65.tinypic.com/2j5hxll.jpg</a>

 

You don't understand the OP nature of tiny stealth tanks. Why do you think the nerfed the EVEN90 to such abysmal stats? Yet even with such abysmal statsthe EVEN90 is still borderline OP...

 

Ezz in this matter you are a tomato noob. Look at the EVEN90 stats above and expect similar for the Manticore



Ezz #46 Posted 04 July 2019 - 07:57 AM

    How many flipping posts do I need to get past Major?

  • Beta-Tester
  • 69277 battles
  • 36,266
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    07-17-2012

Pretty sure you just skipped over all the discussions of the tank and focused in on us pointing out you have so little experience in the upper tiers. Why not go back and have a read at the objective discussions.

 

As to the even comparison, not sure you've twigged yet, so i'll repeat but the manticore, is 2 tiers higher, is larger, has worse camo, will be against opponents with much better VR, with more accurate higher velocity gun and a great deal more experience. And as replacement for a clip that can do roughly half a tier 8, the manticore gets about 6.5k potential damage at woeful dpm and average alpha. Further i'm not entirely sure where you got the idea that we think the even is bad. It always had a niche in which it would do well. The point we are making is by virtue of both the objective analysis of its stats and knowledge of what upper tier meta is like, it simply won't be able to be anywhere near as capable as the even 90.

 

So anyway, rather than underscoring the exact reason your lack of upper tier awareness was brought up, why not try to address the issues that have been raised with the tanks stats?

 

---

 

As to the IX, the comparison to ze german 251 again seems fairly close. The brit will have better camo (~1.5% base), 20m worse VR, the same accuracy, worse dispersion (moving and turret), 17mm better pen, 600 worse dpm, on par mobility (better hp/t, worse top speed and traverse), oh and 150 less hit points too. Goodness knows how many shells it will get. Size wise it's a slightly thinner 1390.


Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

>9000 cynicism brought to you by P2W, RIP Balance and the Cartoon Connection

Currently moderating your English speaking community : AALGMadibaCenturion_NZ, Elite911, Moonbase Patrol Copter 7

R. Pubbie: "why are all PBKAC players so rude, arrogant and nasty? and why do Mods favor them?"


Ezz #47 Posted 04 July 2019 - 08:18 AM

    How many flipping posts do I need to get past Major?

  • Beta-Tester
  • 69277 battles
  • 36,266
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    07-17-2012

As an addendum i figured i'd try to help the broader understanding of 'what's in a clip'.

 

So i went thru hex's tier 7 and above light tanks and grouped single shots and clips into two different columns. I also kept the wheelies as a separate column as they are their own kettle of fish.

 

In the clippers he's played 1440 battles @ 57.3%. (same with wheelies)

In the single shots he's played 965 battles @ 48.5%. (1248 @ 49.8% with wheelies)

 

So about 8.8% (6.8%) delta between clippers and single shots.

Even if we exclude hex's favoured T71DA and the other 7s, the difference is still about ~8% between them. (still ~7% difference for the wheelies)

 

Anyway, i guess the point here to hex and anyone else unsure, rather than looking at the even 90 as a basis for what the brit may be like, perhaps look at the germans lights as to how they'll perform. As mentioned above, they appear close in terms of objective stat analysis.

 

For instance as an estimate hex will likely play at almost 9% lower WR in his brit lights as compared to clippers - so about 32% in the tier 10, 44% in the tier 9, and 43% if compared to the BC12, while he might make 50% if compared to the even 90 in the tier 8.

 

Edit - i missed his bulldog so stats above corrected


Edited by Ezz, 04 July 2019 - 08:44 AM.

Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

>9000 cynicism brought to you by P2W, RIP Balance and the Cartoon Connection

Currently moderating your English speaking community : AALGMadibaCenturion_NZ, Elite911, Moonbase Patrol Copter 7

R. Pubbie: "why are all PBKAC players so rude, arrogant and nasty? and why do Mods favor them?"


CardinalMite #48 Posted 04 July 2019 - 09:00 AM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 29621 battles
  • 1,250
  • Member since:
    04-18-2014

View PostHexHammer, on 03 July 2019 - 11:34 PM, said:

I will explain to you in pictures.

 

Now lets compare the stats of the Even90 and all the other premiums

 

It has the worst Firepower, Gunhandling, Mobility, Armour, Health , Viewrange. In many cases abysmal compared to the rest. Yet it is the second highest performer (noobmeter stats)

 

<a href='http://oi65.tinypic.com/2j5hxll.jpg' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://oi65.tinypic.com/2j5hxll.jpg</a>

 

You don't understand the OP nature of tiny stealth tanks. Why do you think the nerfed the EVEN90 to such abysmal stats? Yet even with such abysmal statsthe EVEN90 is still borderline OP...

 

Ezz in this matter you are a tomato noob. Look at the EVEN90 stats above and expect similar for the Manticore

You clearly did not read my post about why the Manticore is not a tier 10 Elc even 90.

 

I never said the Elc was bad.

 

The point I and Ezz  made (amongst others) is that the Elc tier for tier is way better than the Manticore. A 660 dmg clip vs tier 8 health pool, (even one with a slow intraclip)is going to give you way more opportunity to influence the game by punishing an out of position enemy tank than a single shot 390 alpha (followed by a 14 second reload) vs tier 10 health pool. 


Edited by CardinalMite, 04 July 2019 - 09:01 AM.

“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

 

"It's like you literally dont read your own posts, let alone others, make up instead what you wished others said, then put a non-sensical counter argument to that imagined post."


XiNuAiLe #49 Posted 04 July 2019 - 10:52 AM

    Tiny Tank Connoisseur

  • Member
  • 16886 battles
  • 1,973
  • [DADDY] DADDY
  • Member since:
    05-02-2014

Interesting debate about the British LT , I been waiting for it for some time . I have to admit the initial stats looks under-average at first glance but my opinion on the Tier 10 LT is of a 2nd wave LT playstyle of sort . This LT may not be the first to reach vantage position but it does not have to be the first , there are always secondary spots to take and slowly creep up using its profile and camo . The gun may lack the DPM but it is way more reliable than any LT gun currently at tier 10 , base pen at 248 and gold pen at 268 is very workable for me . Having to work with 190 pen from the EBR 105 is often stressful given how bad maps are currently and with my broken keyboard -3-

 

If anything this Manticore is a good support and a decent LT , you just need to play it more slower paced . 40 hpt with 68 kph top speed and a small profile , you can still be anywhere at mid to late game and the enemy can't do much about it .

 

 


 


Ezz #50 Posted 04 July 2019 - 11:10 AM

    How many flipping posts do I need to get past Major?

  • Beta-Tester
  • 69277 battles
  • 36,266
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    07-17-2012

View Post_SukiKirai_, on 04 July 2019 - 12:52 PM, said:

The gun may lack the DPM but it is way more reliable than any LT gun currently at tier 10 , base pen at 248 and gold pen at 268 is very workable for me .

There are two elements to consider here - first it's gun is not 'way' more reliable at all.

 

The sheridan matches the accuracy, has 12 less pen, gets heat, and is far better everything else (aim time, dispersion, depression/elevation). Plus we're talking like 900 better dpm here. Plus about 16k potential, so you can miss or bounce shots and not be left worrying about your ammo count.

 

Then there's the wz, considered a shit tier light, with 0.2 worse accuracy, effectively the same pen, gets heat, gets better aim time and dispersion, has worse depression but better elevation. And again has far more ammo so the odd bounce or miss is far less of a penalty.

 

Finally there's the aforementioned rhmpzw, considered the flat out worst 10 in game, gets better accuracy, effectively the same pen plus heat, lower alpha, but better everything else. Granted this thing only gets about 11k potential. Amusingly that's regarded as very low and limiting, yet is still almost double what the manticore will get.

 

Second is the overarching element of WG's plan that is to make this a good vision support vehicle. There are simply soooo many other 10s that play that role far far far far (you get the picture) more effectively than this thing would as a support. Put simply, if someone is going to try to vision snipe in this thing, then they'll be a liability.

 

View Post_SukiKirai_, on 04 July 2019 - 12:52 PM, said:

you can still be anywhere at mid to late game and the enemy can't do much about it .

And unless you weren't using your gun for the early battle where the winner is decided, then chances are the manticore won't be able to do much about it either....

 

---

 

A fun comparison - arty killing potential...

 

Assuming about 500hp for the arty and all shots AP, hit and pen with base values ie no BiA, rammer etc., the manticore is going to take about 13.4 seconds to kill an arty. Tho probably should be longer as its dispersion and aim time are shit tier... but anyway... A t100lt will take about 7.7s.

 

---

 

Fun extra point to note - t100lt can easily get away with vents over vstabs thanks to its gloriously non existent dispersion. Effectively boosting it to effectively the same VR (1.6m less), almost the same camo if you have a camo skilled crew (realistically who wouldn't), even better DPM and even less disparity in accuracy.


Edited by Ezz, 04 July 2019 - 11:36 AM.

Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

>9000 cynicism brought to you by P2W, RIP Balance and the Cartoon Connection

Currently moderating your English speaking community : AALGMadibaCenturion_NZ, Elite911, Moonbase Patrol Copter 7

R. Pubbie: "why are all PBKAC players so rude, arrogant and nasty? and why do Mods favor them?"


Ezz #51 Posted 04 July 2019 - 12:42 PM

    How many flipping posts do I need to get past Major?

  • Beta-Tester
  • 69277 battles
  • 36,266
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    07-17-2012
May as well make a new post as it's been a while... but i'm getting curious where the positive sentiment for this thing is coming from. Literally every decent player i've seen comment has been very critical of the manticore's current stats. Did QB say it would be good on stream or something?

Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

>9000 cynicism brought to you by P2W, RIP Balance and the Cartoon Connection

Currently moderating your English speaking community : AALGMadibaCenturion_NZ, Elite911, Moonbase Patrol Copter 7

R. Pubbie: "why are all PBKAC players so rude, arrogant and nasty? and why do Mods favor them?"


Mystolin #52 Posted 04 July 2019 - 01:33 PM

    Corporal

  • Member
  • 1777 battles
  • 15
  • Member since:
    10-18-2016

Create LT is such a stupid mistake, only after the idea of Arty.

These tanks have quite specific roll that is spotting and it's all.

And LT only play effectively by high skill players but, sadly, most noobs love play these tanks and never know how to spot.

WG've made it worse by making wheeled yoloing clowns, who like to yolo to die in the first minute.

And now a LT who can sniper like TD, imagine how they camp next to the red line the whole game ...

This game become more and more shitty by time.


Edited by Mystolin, 04 July 2019 - 01:38 PM.


Ezz #53 Posted 04 July 2019 - 02:30 PM

    How many flipping posts do I need to get past Major?

  • Beta-Tester
  • 69277 battles
  • 36,266
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    07-17-2012

To quote one of the better players running around who also feels the even 90 is at the top of the 8LT pile... The manticore "definitely looks like trash" and "will be a slightly improved version of the 132-1, but still terrible because more fragile and 6200 max damage". He then goes on to suggest ways it could be buffed. Strangely no mention of nerfs however....

 

I'll need to keep looking for decent players heaping praise on it.


Edited by Ezz, 04 July 2019 - 02:31 PM.

Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

>9000 cynicism brought to you by P2W, RIP Balance and the Cartoon Connection

Currently moderating your English speaking community : AALGMadibaCenturion_NZ, Elite911, Moonbase Patrol Copter 7

R. Pubbie: "why are all PBKAC players so rude, arrogant and nasty? and why do Mods favor them?"


CardinalMite #54 Posted 04 July 2019 - 02:42 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 29621 battles
  • 1,250
  • Member since:
    04-18-2014

View PostEzz, on 04 July 2019 - 03:10 AM, said:

 

A fun comparison - arty killing potential...

 

Assuming about 500hp for the arty and all shots AP, hit and pen with base values ie no BiA, rammer etc., the manticore is going to take about 13.4 seconds to kill an arty. Tho probably should be longer as its dispersion and aim time are shit tier... but anyway... 

You could always fire 1 sixteenth of your ammo as HE and hope for a pen.


“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

 

"It's like you literally dont read your own posts, let alone others, make up instead what you wished others said, then put a non-sensical counter argument to that imagined post."


Ezz #55 Posted 04 July 2019 - 02:46 PM

    How many flipping posts do I need to get past Major?

  • Beta-Tester
  • 69277 battles
  • 36,266
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    07-17-2012

View PostCardinalMite, on 04 July 2019 - 04:42 PM, said:

You could always fire 1 sixteenth of your ammo as HE and hope for a pen.

Speaking of which, quite a few have noted that the LT will be one of the few brit lines to miss out on HESH. 100+ pen hesh could start to make this at least a little not shit and provide something of an ammo choice. Even more so if it was decent hesh up closer to 200mm pen as other high tier brits get.


Edited by Ezz, 04 July 2019 - 02:48 PM.

Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

>9000 cynicism brought to you by P2W, RIP Balance and the Cartoon Connection

Currently moderating your English speaking community : AALGMadibaCenturion_NZ, Elite911, Moonbase Patrol Copter 7

R. Pubbie: "why are all PBKAC players so rude, arrogant and nasty? and why do Mods favor them?"


Sevatar_ #56 Posted 04 July 2019 - 02:54 PM

    Space Batman

  • Member
  • 40065 battles
  • 179
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    12-15-2012

View PostEzz, on 04 July 2019 - 04:46 PM, said:

Speaking of which, quite a few have noted that the LT will be one of the few brit lines to miss out on HESH. 100+ pen hesh could start to make this at least a little not shit and provide something of an ammo choice. Even more so if it was decent hesh up closer to 200mm pen as other high tier brits get.

Really?

 

That would be the only explanation for the shitty reload. Basically what they did with the Conway.



Ezz #57 Posted 04 July 2019 - 02:56 PM

    How many flipping posts do I need to get past Major?

  • Beta-Tester
  • 69277 battles
  • 36,266
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    07-17-2012

View PostSevatar_, on 04 July 2019 - 04:54 PM, said:

Really?

 

That would be the only explanation for the shitty reload. Basically what they did with the Conway.

Last stats was only 60 pen HE at 480 alpha.


Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

>9000 cynicism brought to you by P2W, RIP Balance and the Cartoon Connection

Currently moderating your English speaking community : AALGMadibaCenturion_NZ, Elite911, Moonbase Patrol Copter 7

R. Pubbie: "why are all PBKAC players so rude, arrogant and nasty? and why do Mods favor them?"


CardinalMite #58 Posted 04 July 2019 - 03:01 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 29621 battles
  • 1,250
  • Member since:
    04-18-2014

View PostEzz, on 04 July 2019 - 06:56 AM, said:

Last stats was only 60 pen HE at 480 alpha.

Haha so I guess it should have been:

 

You could always shoot 1 sixteenth of your ammo as HE and hope for a pen and a high roll...


“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

 

"It's like you literally dont read your own posts, let alone others, make up instead what you wished others said, then put a non-sensical counter argument to that imagined post."


Ezz #59 Posted 04 July 2019 - 03:05 PM

    How many flipping posts do I need to get past Major?

  • Beta-Tester
  • 69277 battles
  • 36,266
  • [PBKAC] PBKAC
  • Member since:
    07-17-2012

View PostCardinalMite, on 04 July 2019 - 05:01 PM, said:

Haha so I guess it should have been:

 

You could always shoot 1 sixteenth of your ammo as HE and hope for a pen and a high roll...

With that 0.38 laser precision, 2.3s aim time and crappy on the move dispersion, as the gents have said, the key may be to take it slow, vewwwy slow.


Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

>9000 cynicism brought to you by P2W, RIP Balance and the Cartoon Connection

Currently moderating your English speaking community : AALGMadibaCenturion_NZ, Elite911, Moonbase Patrol Copter 7

R. Pubbie: "why are all PBKAC players so rude, arrogant and nasty? and why do Mods favor them?"


XiNuAiLe #60 Posted 04 July 2019 - 04:44 PM

    Tiny Tank Connoisseur

  • Member
  • 16886 battles
  • 1,973
  • [DADDY] DADDY
  • Member since:
    05-02-2014

View PostEzz, on 04 July 2019 - 11:10 AM, said:

There are two elements to consider here - first it's gun is not 'way' more reliable at all.

 

The sheridan matches the accuracy, has 12 less pen, gets heat, and is far better everything else (aim time, dispersion, depression/elevation). Plus we're talking like 900 better dpm here. Plus about 16k potential, so you can miss or bounce shots and not be left worrying about your ammo count.

 

Then there's the wz, considered a shit tier light, with 0.2 worse accuracy, effectively the same pen, gets heat, gets better aim time and dispersion, has worse depression but better elevation. And again has far more ammo so the odd bounce or miss is far less of a penalty.

 

Finally there's the aforementioned rhmpzw, considered the flat out worst 10 in game, gets better accuracy, effectively the same pen plus heat, lower alpha, but better everything else. Granted this thing only gets about 11k potential. Amusingly that's regarded as very low and limiting, yet is still almost double what the manticore will get.

 

Second is the overarching element of WG's plan that is to make this a good vision support vehicle. There are simply soooo many other 10s that play that role far far far far (you get the picture) more effectively than this thing would as a support. Put simply, if someone is going to try to vision snipe in this thing, then they'll be a liability.

 

And unless you weren't using your gun for the early battle where the winner is decided, then chances are the manticore won't be able to do much about it either....

 

---

 

A fun comparison - arty killing potential...

 

Assuming about 500hp for the arty and all shots AP, hit and pen with base values ie no BiA, rammer etc., the manticore is going to take about 13.4 seconds to kill an arty. Tho probably should be longer as its dispersion and aim time are shit tier... but anyway... A t100lt will take about 7.7s.

 

---

 

Fun extra point to note - t100lt can easily get away with vents over vstabs thanks to its gloriously non existent dispersion. Effectively boosting it to effectively the same VR (1.6m less), almost the same camo if you have a camo skilled crew (realistically who wouldn't), even better DPM and even less disparity in accuracy.


It is personal preference , I prefer APCR than HEAT and for LT . I believe APCR is generally better than just relying on HEAT . I played the T -100 and the gun pen often holds it back , does not matter if it shoots faster or have no dispersion .

 

Again , there is a great many ways to play LT and Manticore is one of those LT where normal convention is generally not applicable . The tank itself only need to fire a few well placed shots to affect the battle and having played the EBR and the T-100 . I am interested in a slower but steady pace playstyle the Manticore gonna bring . Just because a tank don't play like other mainstray LT does not mean it is bad .

 

Lastly , a LT can scout anytime in the battle . You only need to make sure the few important tanks are knocked to win battles , early spotting is just a bonus for the Manticore .


Edited by _SukiKirai_, 04 July 2019 - 04:51 PM.

 





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users