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New British LTs discussion


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Ezz #61 Posted 04 July 2019 - 05:02 PM

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View Post_SukiKirai_, on 04 July 2019 - 06:44 PM, said:

It is personal preference , I prefer APCR than HEAT and for LT . I believe APCR is generally better than just relying on HEAT . I played the T -100 and the gun pen often holds it back , does not matter if it shoots faster or have no dispersion .

It gets AP for standard so the APCR is going to be a rather expensive preference. The unknown at this stage will be the pen drop off at range. If it's in line with the other lights then it's going to be not only expensive, but also rather fruitless vs anything with a scrap of armor.

 

View Post_SukiKirai_, on 04 July 2019 - 06:44 PM, said:

Again , there is a great many ways to play LT and Manticore is one of those LT where normal convention is generally not applicable . The tank itself only need to fire a few well placed shots to affect the battle and having played the EBR and the T-100 . I am interested in a slower but steady pace playstyle the Manticore gonna bring . Just because a tank don't play like other mainstray LT does not mean it is bad .

All very true. However the key issue is not so much how it can be played, but how it can be played effectively. Any tank that is limited to a few shots, with a slow pace is not going to be effective. It's like the gent talking over how to snipe in an e100. Sure you can sit back there and give it a whirl if you really want, but that of course isn't how to play the thing effectively.

 

View Post_SukiKirai_, on 04 July 2019 - 06:44 PM, said:

 

Lastly , a LT can scout anytime in the battle . You only need to make sure the few important tanks are knocked to win battles , early spotting is just a bonus for the Manticore .

Again true. You can scout at any time if you like, but as any competent player will tell you, early battle is when things are decided. Just look at how effective the ebr has proven, and it's thing is early spotting. It's similar to those who can't understand why they aren't winning more despite decent wn8. It's the early damage that decides battles, while wn8 can be padded even after all is lost.

 

Maybe that's where some of this may be being lost in translation with hex. The point of the tank may very well be to be a largely passive long range scout, and in that role it may well do ok compared to other lights. But the issue is that that role simply doesn't work in the upper tiers.


Edited by Ezz, 04 July 2019 - 05:10 PM.

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UreshiiHime #62 Posted 04 July 2019 - 05:26 PM

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View PostEzz, on 04 July 2019 - 05:02 PM, said:

It gets AP for standard so the APCR is going to be a rather expensive preference. The unknown at this stage will be the pen drop off at range. If it's in line with the other lights then it's going to be not only expensive, but also rather fruitless vs anything with a scrap of armor.

 

All very true. However the key issue is not so much how it can be played, but how it can be played effectively. Any tank that is limited to a few shots, with a slow pace is not going to be effective. It's like the gent talking over how to snipe in an e100. Sure you can sit back there and give it a whirl if you really want, but that of course isn't how to play the thing effectively.

 

Again true. You can scout at any time if you like, but as any competent player will tell you, early battle is when things are decided. Just look at how effective the ebr has proven, and it's thing is early spotting. It's similar to those who can't understand why they aren't winning more despite decent wn8. It's the early damage that decides battles, while wn8 can be padded even after all is lost.

 

Maybe that's where some of this may be being lost in translation with hex. The point of the tank may very well be to be a largely passive long range scout, and in that role it may well do ok compared to other lights. But the issue is that that role simply doesn't work in the upper tiers.


Having the ability to fire a shell that has 268 mm pen is a huge deal for LT . 190-230 plus often bounce shots you needed to pen and as LT players ,Having APCR allows for a higher hit probability on fast tanks .

 

I know how to play a LT fyi , early spotting is key but for HK it is not really that much of a big deal and the Manticore is not an EBR . What is important that you as a LT spot high value targets and spot , support and maybe kill when given the opportunity .

 

 


 


Ranork #63 Posted 04 July 2019 - 05:46 PM

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They certainly don't bring anything really new to the game when it is sorely needed.

Very limited options for this LT to outperform anything that is not already available.

Bringing this line into existence straight after the Wheeled Vehicles does not make a lot of sense and I can't see any real reason to spend time grinding them.

They definitely don't deserve to be researched using Free XP so suspect that only players that would bother with this are those like me that have nothing else to grind but this will wear off qucikly or those that are yet to chose a line to go down and before long they will find they have chosen poorly.

Nothing NEW to see here please move on.



Ezz #64 Posted 04 July 2019 - 06:23 PM

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View Post_SukiKirai_, on 04 July 2019 - 07:26 PM, said:


Having the ability to fire a shell that has 268 mm pen is a huge deal for LT . 190-230 plus often bounce shots you needed to pen and as LT players ,Having APCR allows for a higher hit probability on fast tanks .

 

Forgot to mention, standard ap looks to have the slowest shell velocity of the lights.


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mttspiii #65 Posted 04 July 2019 - 07:48 PM

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View PostEzz, on 04 July 2019 - 06:23 PM, said:

Forgot to mention, standard ap looks to have the slowest shell velocity of the lights.

 

...and HE isn't even HESH. The gun is pure sprem then. 16 shells only, gotta make each and every one count. At least 13 105 lets you use cheap-[edited] ammo with proper choice of target to assassinate and route to take.

 

I dunno, Manticore gets 20m more VR than EVEN, but then your typical dumb-[edited] USSR HT gains 50m VR from tier 8 to 10. And Manticore gets less camo than EVEN, and doesn't clip either. Manticore is definitely unique for tier X though, really annoying to root out when trying to assault an enemy, but itself isn't able to push forward unless it's a counterattack. In CW it probably has specialist uses but a T-100 fully kitted-out for spotting is more versatile; in pubs where you rely on teammates it will flounder and suffer.

 

Also, just realized that WG is probably a fan of WH40k. Drunk post below:

Spoiler

 


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I'm a golden girl, I'm an Aphrodite

 

 


Ezz #66 Posted 05 July 2019 - 08:51 AM

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Speaking of comfort, i had a look back at some old tanks for a comparison of gun comfort levels.

 

Remember the STB1 pre buff - great dpm (about 1200dpm better!) but gun that made one regret life choices... well, the stb had the same aim time, better final accuracy, better gun dispersion while moving, and couldn't move as fast so the dispersion wouldn't be as great anyway. Oh and better view range, gun dep/elev, shell velocity, pen, ammo count, etc.. But i guess its camo and mobility weren't in the same league. Plus people tended not to use it as a support sniper due to that final accuracy of 0.36...

 

The old pre buff leo (as i've mentioned before) which most people didn't play because its role as a support sniper didn't work in the meta in part because of the bloom - about 950 more dpm, the same dispersion values but significantly better final accuracy, better aim time, better view range, gun dep/elev, shell velocity, pen, ammo count, etc.. But again, i guess camo and mobility were the down sides.

 

They both also had an extra 550 hit points. So i guess the point is, given the current maps and upper tier meta, the camo and mobility really needs to make up for all the rest for WG's theory for the manti to have a chance.


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HexHammer #67 Posted 05 July 2019 - 03:57 PM

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The EVEN90 is 1600x2000, the Manticore is 1680x2150, so basically the frontal profile of the Manticore is only 5% larger (tiny)

 

The EVEN90 is one of the best passive scouts in the game no matter the tier. The base camo of the EVEN90 is 22 vs base camo of 35 in the Mantiicore. The view range of the EVEN90 is 380, the Manticore 400. The Manticore is the EVEN90 on steroids

 

Once the Manticore is fully crewed, equipped and running food, it will have a camo of about 60. Which means it could sit in the open, and a Sheridan with 500 viewrange will have to drive within 200 meters to spot the Manticore.  If it is in a bush, the only way to spot it will be via proxy spotting, so what you have there is a toxic invisble tank that will generate more complaints than the wheeled vehicles

 

On top of that it is tiny and hard to hit, particularly with the 68/25 kmh speed and impressive 41 p/w ratio. Then on top of that it is armed with, essentially, a faster aiming IS3 top gun. And -8 gun depression to use it with.

 

That tank will be obviously brokenAF. I wonder how many complaining about the wheeled tanks actually complained about them before they were released. Obviously it will not bother me, because I only play light tanks these days, but common sense will prevail - massive nerfs on the way


Edited by HexHammer, 05 July 2019 - 03:59 PM.


CardinalMite #68 Posted 05 July 2019 - 04:21 PM

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View PostHexHammer, on 05 July 2019 - 07:57 AM, said:

The EVEN90 is 1600x2000, the Manticore is 1680x2150, so basically the frontal profile of the Manticore is only 5% larger (tiny)

 

The EVEN90 is one of the best passive scouts in the game no matter the tier. The base camo of the EVEN90 is 22 vs base camo of 35 in the Mantiicore. The view range of the EVEN90 is 380, the Manticore 400. The Manticore is the EVEN90 on steroids

 

Once the Manticore is fully crewed, equipped and running food, it will have a camo of about 60. Which means it could sit in the open, and a Sheridan with 500 viewrange will have to drive within 200 meters to spot the Manticore.  If it is in a bush, the only way to spot it will be via proxy spotting, so what you have there is a toxic invisble tank that will generate more complaints than the wheeled vehicles

 

On top of that it is tiny and hard to hit, particularly with the 68/25 kmh speed and impressive 41 p/w ratio. Then on top of that it is armed with, essentially, a faster aiming IS3 top gun. And -8 gun depression to use it with.

 

That tank will be obviously brokenAF. I wonder how many complaining about the wheeled tanks actually complained about them before they were released. Obviously it will not bother me, because I only play light tanks these days, but common sense will prevail - massive nerfs on the way

What makes you think the base camo is 35 on the Manticore?

 

Think about the relative sizes you quoted for the Even 90 vs the Manticore, then think about how WG calculate base camo based on height the reassess your entire evaluation of the tank given tier 10 average view range...

 

Or is WG making taller tanks have better camo now?

 

As it happens no, base camo on the Manticore is 20.5, so worse than an even 90. you may want to re-think your assessment and the Manticore probably needs more steroids..


Edited by CardinalMite, 05 July 2019 - 06:03 PM.

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Ezz #69 Posted 05 July 2019 - 06:37 PM

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He may be talking about raging raptor's assessment. I corrected RR but not sure if he ever updated his video. To be fair it can be confusing with the numbers that come out of testing as to whether they include crew impact or not.

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CardinalMite #70 Posted 05 July 2019 - 06:40 PM

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View PostEzz, on 05 July 2019 - 10:37 AM, said:

He may be talking about raging raptor's assessment. I corrected RR but not sure if he ever updated his video. To be fair it can be confusing with the numbers that come out of testing as to whether they include crew impact or not.

Yeah that's why I asked for clarification before. It would be so much better if when they announce a new tank stats that the explicitly state whether they are base or with crew.

 

As it is Hex is wayyy overstating the camo abilities of this tank vs other tier 10s.


“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

 

"It's like you literally dont read your own posts, let alone others, make up instead what you wished others said, then put a non-sensical counter argument to that imagined post."

 

"Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. But then if I limited myself to only arguing with non-idiots on these forums I'd literally never post"


Ezz #71 Posted 05 July 2019 - 06:45 PM

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And to be fair 60 percent plus camo would be bizarrely broken, even for wg.

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FramFramson #72 Posted 06 July 2019 - 12:43 AM

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6500 damage cap is just absolute madness though. You can run into one of these late game and they'll either have no ammo left or you can out-DPM them to oblivion.

LT-playing masochist. It's too much fun to be a mosquito.


HexHammer #73 Posted 06 July 2019 - 09:00 AM

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View PostCardinalMite, on 05 July 2019 - 04:21 PM, said:

What makes you think the base camo is 35 on the Manticore?

 

 

 

Because Supertest stats are always base stats with 100% crew. View range is a best indicator in this case. Here are some links to the pre-nerf and post-nerf ELC bis for your confirmation

 

https://thearmoredpa...st-elc-even-90/

https://thearmoredpa...-elc-even-90-2/

 

I hope they keep the camo/viewrange stats and nerf other stats instead, because the I enjoy the vision game.



Ezz #74 Posted 06 July 2019 - 09:30 AM

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Always base stats except when they're not...

 

Rita provides a nice clear comparison between base and crewed as well as vs other lights. https://ritastatusre...r-x-british-lt/


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CardinalMite #75 Posted 06 July 2019 - 09:53 AM

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View PostHexHammer, on 06 July 2019 - 01:00 AM, said:

 

Because Supertest stats are always base stats with 100% crew. View range is a best indicator in this case. Here are some links to the pre-nerf and post-nerf ELC bis for your confirmation

 

https://thearmoredpa...st-elc-even-90/

https://thearmoredpa...-elc-even-90-2/

 

I hope they keep the camo/viewrange stats and nerf other stats instead, because the I enjoy the vision game.

You realise there are in game comparison screenshots stating the base camo of 20.5?


“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

 

"It's like you literally dont read your own posts, let alone others, make up instead what you wished others said, then put a non-sensical counter argument to that imagined post."

 

"Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. But then if I limited myself to only arguing with non-idiots on these forums I'd literally never post"


Ezz #76 Posted 06 July 2019 - 09:58 AM

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View PostCardinalMite, on 06 July 2019 - 11:53 AM, said:

You realise there are in game comparison screenshots stating the base camo of 20.5?

I'd forgotten I'd linked them on page 2 as well. He was probably too busy making his pretty pictures post.


Edited by Ezz, 06 July 2019 - 10:00 AM.

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CardinalMite #77 Posted 06 July 2019 - 11:07 AM

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Still at least he got to post lots of declarative definitive statements. 

“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

 

"It's like you literally dont read your own posts, let alone others, make up instead what you wished others said, then put a non-sensical counter argument to that imagined post."

 

"Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. But then if I limited myself to only arguing with non-idiots on these forums I'd literally never post"


Profanisaurus #78 Posted 06 July 2019 - 11:27 AM

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It's like he Knew it was Ezz's birthday and specifically made his birthday wish come true.
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Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #79 Posted 06 July 2019 - 11:42 AM

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View PostFramFramson, on 06 July 2019 - 12:43 AM, said:

6500 damage cap is just absolute madness though. You can run into one of these late game and they'll either have no ammo left or you can out-DPM them to oblivion.

 

Finally I can get high WN8 from scouting in an LT?


"oNlY tOxIc PlAyErS bLaMe ThE tEaM fOr LoSiNg"

 

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Ezz #80 Posted 06 July 2019 - 11:51 AM

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View PostAoyama_Blue_Mountain, on 06 July 2019 - 01:42 PM, said:

 

Finally I can get high WN8 from scouting in an LT?

Only with a few fires. Suspect 6.5k will only be blue given how op it is.


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