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Cheekything #1 Posted 15 July 2019 - 10:25 PM

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I'm a bit new to Clan Wars, so I don't want to annoy those long time players who believe if it's not broken, don't fix it. However, I do believe there was a lot wrong with this clan wars structure.

 

The first and most simple was that both Asia and the US servers both have the same issues of the top clans completely dominating, and the rest were miles behind.


Don't get me wrong, all the power to those clans they fielded more and they did better than most. However, the results are obviously going to be of concern to Wargaming. As, what tends to happen is the lower clans don't join in the future, and as with what happened this time a lot of players migrated to other clans to compete. This is only continue unless there are changes, and as with Ranked and Team modes likely we will just see the chance disappear.

 

 

The second issue is tanks. All the games were mostly fielding the same tanks over and over. 

 

I saw a lot of memes and complains on Discord and Reddit about all the reward tanks, but lets be fair while they are good, I don't think that is the real problem. I think that the mode needs to have single tank limits, or point values assigned to frequently used tanks. The more a tank is used the more points it costs to field. This will encourage more interesting game play and tactics.

 

 

The third is is time value.

 

I am sure all of us playing had a lot of downtime in between matches. Either, the caller is giving others a chance, or you don't have the tank in the play they want to do. So, you wait around for several hours, not playing randoms so your are sure to get picked, and it's just a massive drain on your time. Also, us people with full time jobs it was a hard ask. We couldn't play all of the jumps and we suffered for it. This could be addressed, by limiting how many battles each player can do per week or total. That way it's about your quality of battles, not quantity.

 

 

The fourth issue is the map.

 

The map was a joke. The elite front was barely touched, and wasn't really worth the effort to get on to due to the lack of battles. The advance front had clans putting down extortionate bids to keep newer clans off it, which again lead to less battles on it. The bidding system is broken and really needs to be addressed. I would suggest having tokens based on wins/loses, but I'm sure smarter people can suggest better things. I don't blame any clans for using the game mechanics to aid in their wins, and lets be fair someone will always work out the loophole or trick to make victory easier. Wargaming just needs to think of something that is less likely to be exploited.

 

 

The last issues I have is frontlines starting today.... .seriously Wargaming, can we have a week off from the grind please.

 

I really enjoying battling some of you guys, and the good fights were great. I hope we still get to do this again soon.


Edited by Cheekything, 15 July 2019 - 10:32 PM.


HoPeY_ #2 Posted 15 July 2019 - 11:49 PM

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Nothing like sending your B team into a match they get meet by 9 x 279e's and an EBR. All with full purple equipment and 8 perk crews as those type of teams also make more silver to buy books.

 

Fair and balanced :)


Edited by HoPeY_, 15 July 2019 - 11:49 PM.


Buck3t #3 Posted 16 July 2019 - 01:16 AM

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View PostCheekything, on 16 July 2019 - 12:25 AM, said:

The first and most simple was that both Asia and the US servers both have the same issues of the top clans completely dominating, and the rest were miles behind.


Don't get me wrong, all the power to those clans they fielded more and they did better than most. However, the results are obviously going to be of concern to Wargaming. As, what tends to happen is the lower clans don't join in the future, and as with what happened this time a lot of players migrated to other clans to compete. This is only continue unless there are changes, and as with Ranked and Team modes likely we will just see the chance disappear.

 


That's what happens when 3 of the top 4 clans play in 1 clan. Same happens on NA and EU. At the end of the day it comes down to these regions having small populations and therefor no real need for competition. There just aren't enough good players playing the game anymore to have a fair competition. 

Easily the most boring campaign I've been part of (Played in the first 2 and the last 4) purely because the result was decided before the campaign started (at least for the top 3 or 4). This campaign was definitely a rough one for players hoping to get a tank from clans unable to compete in advanced front auctions. To an extent I'm wondering if WG will cave into the majority of the player base (especially AU/NZ players) who want reward tanks to be welfare tanks. In its current state, there's literally no other reason for clan wars campaigns now that competition doesn't exists. 

YETI spent from day 3.5 until the last night focusing on getting individuals their personal fame points to a level that they can get a tank. Almost no reason for people to try and develop new/lower tier clans when they could join any of the top/middle tier clans and get carried with almost no work at all. I'm not sure how you even fix the game from here.


Edited by Buck3t, 16 July 2019 - 01:16 AM.

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SiKiN #4 Posted 16 July 2019 - 04:08 AM

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I still don't understand why the advanced front has to be five times more important.... It ended up costing about fifty times more than a basic win just to bid for a match on the final night.... That is my only complaint this campaign really. Two times more important, Ok, maybe... but five????

Bring back landing times five verses a landowner or for the land, something other than this is just clearly a waste of time and this is too important not to go for but you gotta win 50 battle for 1 game and if you win you get more but oh, oh if you don't sorry win 50 more please....


Mudguts4710 #5 Posted 16 July 2019 - 10:19 AM

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What about addressing the Monkey on the back of the Gorilla on the back of the Elephant in the room....

Reward tanks that are flat out better than their tech tree counterparts? 

How is it that in WG-world the better players get better gear, that makes them even better players? What about the tried and true rewards in other game worlds - gold guns, better/new/exclusive skins, badges, hall-of-fame recognition etc?

 

In competitive sport - the champs are the best because they beat everybody else using the same gear, under the same rules but employing better skills, tactics or dedication to training? (OK Lance Armstrong aside)

 

If we have to live in WG's P2W world then what about restricting CW to Tech tree only tanks?

The owners of 907's, Chieftains, 279e's are welcome to their tanks - well played sir and enjoy your rewards. But maybe they're only allowed in Pubbies, where they can display the size of their e-peens to all and sundry as they farm pubbie tears and buff their WN8's?



Ravvi_ #6 Posted 16 July 2019 - 10:53 AM

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Buck3t is correct on what CP actually showed. 
TEAL has 98 Active Members and 97 of them were able to get a tank. Thats because TEAL gained 1 or 2 teams of 3 other Top Clans. How many teams could they fill in each TZ, you do the math. Must of been a boring CP for TEAL by the looks. (Btw, no hate towards TEAL. They certainly showed what an Active Top Clan can do on the GM. 

Elite Front was touched but by only the clans in the top 15, considering that's where clans had enough Fame points to bid on Elite. Advanced is ment to help the Mid to Low tiered clans get a little extra FP. But i guess it doesnt help them when you have Top clans holding land on them, or participating in the Landing Tourney. 

Clearly the meme of this CP was "Who has a 279e, drag yourself in". Literally the 1st thing i heard when YETI were picking a team for a battle. Was kinda funny. 279e's were what callers wanted in atleast 95% of the battles. Probably more. But if your a good tanker and can do the missions well. You deserve one, if you rigged them. well good for you :medal:.

Being on for 5-6 hours a night versing TEAL alot was very fun. Other clans had variety in who they versed. It was a boring CP overall
 

Ravvi is on a Rampage!!!

 


WorldGreatest_Corrupters #7 Posted 16 July 2019 - 10:58 AM

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View PostSiKiN, on 15 July 2019 - 08:08 PM, said:

I still don't understand why the advanced front has to be five times more important.... It ended up costing about fifty times more than a basic win just to bid for a match on the final night.... That is my only complaint this campaign really. Two times more important, Ok, maybe... but five????

Bring back landing times five verses a landowner or for the land, something other than this is just clearly a waste of time and this is too important not to go for but you gotta win 50 battle for 1 game and if you win you get more but oh, oh if you don't sorry win 50 more please....

Agreed, last time there wasn't much wrong with it I thought. 32 spots for advances, tank locks, etc.



Flying_Elite #8 Posted 16 July 2019 - 11:32 AM

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View PostRavvi_, on 16 July 2019 - 12:53 PM, said:

Buck3t is correct on what CP actually showed. 
TEAL has 98 Active Members and 97 of them were able to get a tank. Thats because TEAL gained 1 or 2 teams of 3 other Top Clans. How many teams could they fill in each TZ, you do the math. Must of been a boring CP for TEAL by the looks. (Btw, no hate towards TEAL. They certainly showed what an Active Top Clan can do on the GM. 

Elite Front was touched but by only the clans in the top 15, considering that's where clans had enough Fame points to bid on Elite. Advanced is ment to help the Mid to Low tiered clans get a little extra FP. But i guess it doesnt help them when you have Top clans holding land on them, or participating in the Landing Tourney. 

Clearly the meme of this CP was "Who has a 279e, drag yourself in". Literally the 1st thing i heard when YETI were picking a team for a battle. Was kinda funny. 279e's were what callers wanted in atleast 95% of the battles. Probably more. But if your a good tanker and can do the missions well. You deserve one, if you rigged them. well good for you :medal:.

Being on for 5-6 hours a night versing TEAL alot was very fun. Other clans had variety in who they versed. It was a boring CP overall
 


or be me and just ready up cgc every game, probably the most relaxed campaign I’ve had in a while, because arty good on nearly every map in the pool


   

     

Spoiler

 


Saffelicious #9 Posted 16 July 2019 - 11:51 AM

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I said it in discord yesterday,

This was by far the most boring campaign iv'e played. Somehow the meta was even worse then last campaign and Before this I would have thought that was impossible

EBRs and 279 is actually pure xxxx ......

 

And like bucket said, no idea what the solution is. 

Competition is non existent on this server. just not enough good players left :/ 

Quite boring for all partys involved.. 


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
 
 
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MrBarker #10 Posted 16 July 2019 - 12:40 PM

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How about reducing the clan sizes to match the size of the server? more clans->more competition?

RainbowAssassin #11 Posted 16 July 2019 - 01:00 PM

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View PostSaffelicious, on 16 July 2019 - 11:51 AM, said:

I said it in discord yesterday,

This was by far the most boring campaign iv'e played. Somehow the meta was even worse then last campaign and Before this I would have thought that was impossible

EBRs and 279 is actually pure xxxx ......

 

And like bucket said, no idea what the solution is. 

Competition is non existent on this server. just not enough good players left :/ 

Quite boring for all partys involved.. 

279's were barely used (Besides the TEAL JP team who did it for memes). I had players with 279's in all my games, yet on maps like Ensk, I would still not even bring one. They are slow and nowhere near as OP as the 268V4. The EBRs also make the game more interesting tbh, the pace is faster and requires you to think slightly faster in a game that is extremely slow.

 

Clans like GAZEL and WLHG would bring 279's on maps like Lakeville, this means the opponent if playing to their advantage (speed) can take the middle of the map (map control) and play out better positions and more effectively use arty, or relocate and push out cap. There are also tanks like the VKK which out trade the 279.

 

Example: 3v7 279's. NPG's, P_C team, that they paid recruited for Campaign. http://wotreplays.eu/site/4961314#stats JPE specifically to counter 279's that we expected to meet from this team (They loved their 279's). While in the V4 meta, the only counter to a V4, was a V4.


Edited by RainbowAssassin, 16 July 2019 - 01:30 PM.

 
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Twit_ #12 Posted 16 July 2019 - 01:58 PM

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I didn't mind the EBR's this campaign, but the 279e's on any ridge were extremely frustrating to play against. Waiting for the eventual 15v15 279e extravaganza next CP when more will have the tank! If it isn't nerfed by then :P

Ranork #13 Posted 16 July 2019 - 02:25 PM

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I don't agree with everything the OP said, however, when read in full there are some good take away points for WG to consider before the next campaign.

The earning mechanics and auction bidding was very lopsided and aided to the clans that least needed the help to gain a foothold.

Rather than a bid for landings using FAME, something that could work better is a token/chipping system, whereby if you win a battle on the basic front it automatically gives you one entry point on the Advanced front and then if you win on the advanced front the same applies for the elite front.

The Elite front must not have been very exciting given the lack of clans even able to experience it. Don't know as we were not good enough to get there sadly.

Our clan played more than 160 battles over the campaign, so very active and we learnt a lot, our callers definitely benefited from the challenge and at the peak we were able to field 4 and sometimes 5 teams (Basic) at a time.

As always the fatigue set in due to timezone differences (nothing can be done about this) and we had some memorable victory and some equally horrible defeats as I am sure most others did.

There was no surprise in who the top clans would be and well done to them (Looking at you guys TEAL & YETI) and I am sure they had some good battles between them also.

Not sure that any one has the right model for future campaigns but certainly the distribution of fame and the ability to have a go at more than just the basic and advanced and actually take and defend land for some of the weaker less skilled clans needs to be looked at.

It was good also to see some of the more experienced callers drop tags from the top clans and take up positions in less experienced clans to help them along.



HoPeY_ #14 Posted 16 July 2019 - 02:32 PM

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Perhaps limiting reward tanks to say 30 per team would open up competition up the top end. Or going by activity only allow 50 active players per team.

jumphonner #15 Posted 16 July 2019 - 02:50 PM

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For the sake of curiosity, what happens in I am fortunate enough to already have the four rewards tanks on offer [I don't] and are in the top 1175 [I'm not]?

 

 



RainbowAssassin #16 Posted 16 July 2019 - 02:52 PM

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View Postjumphonner, on 16 July 2019 - 02:50 PM, said:

For the sake of curiosity, what happens in I am fortunate enough to already have the four rewards tanks on offer [I don't] and are in the top 1175 [I'm not]?

 

 

You get to keep your 4000 bonds and 22k fame points that it would have costed. 1175 is a ticket to buy a tank, if you have the tank, you use your two currencies elsewhere.


 
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Saffelicious #17 Posted 16 July 2019 - 02:53 PM

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View PostRainbowAssassin, on 16 July 2019 - 04:00 PM, said:

279's were barely used (Besides the TEAL JP team who did it for memes). I had players with 279's in all my games, yet on maps like Ensk, I would still not even bring one. They are slow and nowhere near as OP as the 268V4. The EBRs also make the game more interesting tbh, the pace is faster and requires you to think slightly faster in a game that is extremely slow.

 

Clans like GAZEL and WLHG would bring 279's on maps like Lakeville, this means the opponent if playing to their advantage (speed) can take the middle of the map (map control) and play out better positions and more effectively use arty, or relocate and push out cap. There are also tanks like the VKK which out trade the 279.

 

Example: 3v7 279's. NPG's, P_C team, that they paid recruited for Campaign. http://wotreplays.eu/site/4961314#stats JPE specifically to counter 279's that we expected to meet from this team (They loved their 279's). While in the V4 meta, the only counter to a V4, was a V4.

 

Completely disagree with the EBR statement. 

The skill ceiling of EBRs are soo much lower then the classic LT gameplay. 

Any "average" player can now just drive around like a moron and scout and get away with it cause 

A) hard to hit

B) 50% of shots dont do damage anyway.

And in regards to the 279s, yeah sure they can be penned, but that does not change the fact that they can literally drive in the open on open maps and APCR tanks can barely touch them. 

They just slow down the meta.

 

Either way both scenarios are as bad as each other, i for one did not enjoy it. 


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
 
 
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"What's pathetic and un Australian is you and the other [edited] complaining about those here behind their backs on the other forum. What's pathetic is thinking you are better than others on forums and in the game and big noting yourself when blind Feddy can see your sudden improvement on purchasing vpack"

RainbowAssassin #18 Posted 16 July 2019 - 03:09 PM

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View PostSaffelicious, on 16 July 2019 - 02:53 PM, said:

 

Completely disagree with the EBR statement. 

The skill ceiling of EBRs are soo much lower then the classic LT gameplay. 

Any "average" player can now just drive around like a moron and scout and get away with it cause 

A) hard to hit

B) 50% of shots dont do damage anyway.

I completely agree with this actually. Having yellow players blitz across the map and get lucky, without actually playing skillfully (e.g. bushes, knowing when to stop/out spot someone, using your circles). Although I find this not detrimental to the meta. I admit its an unskilled speeding up of the meta, at least theres less reliance on artillery. We saw many Redshire games with no arty, when previously redshire was 2+ for example.

 

With 279s, it makes it slightly harder to full spam Chieftains, you need to think a bit more, for example, I changed in 5A's in some strats, for their pen, which does give diversity to the tank pool. Theres a good in the evil.


 
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Tier 10 3 marks: IS-4, IS-7, T57 Heavy Tank, FV217 Badger, Leopard 1, AMX 50 B, Object 140, Conqueror Gun Carriage, VK 72.01 (K), FV215b (183), Super Conqueror, Object 277, T-100 LT, Jagdpanzer E 100, Bat.-châtillon 25 t, WZ 111 model 5A, FV215b, Centurion Action X, Object 430U, Type 5 Heavy, 60TP Lewandowskiego, T-62A, E100
 

 


Saffelicious #19 Posted 16 July 2019 - 03:23 PM

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View PostRainbowAssassin, on 16 July 2019 - 06:09 PM, said:

I completely agree with this actually. Having yellow players blitz across the map and get lucky, without actually playing skillfully (e.g. bushes, knowing when to stop/out spot someone, using your circles). Although I find this not detrimental to the meta. I admit its an unskilled speeding up of the meta, at least theres less reliance on artillery. We saw many Redshire games with no arty, when previously redshire was 2+ for example.

 

With 279s, it makes it slightly harder to full spam Chieftains, you need to think a bit more, for example, I changed in 5A's in some strats, for their pen, which does give diversity to the tank pool. Theres a good in the evil.

Sure, you can still apply skill to them, thats kind of obvious, but that does not change the fact that you can be super useful without actually being skillful in them. 

Let me put it this way,

A person playing a normal LT will not get "lucky" and outplay or out spot a team in an EBR that happens a lot. 

And like I said above, if you overextend there is a big chance that you will get away with it.

You don't in say a T100. 

 

If you drive 2 279s up the highroad through the middle on say sandriver a 5a is not going to have much more luck penning it from base then a chieftain.

Where you previously used say E3s to hold up lanes you now use a 279s. 

That is the difference. 


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
 
 
Pubbie 1
"You guys run around in t10 tanks with, prem consumables, prem rounds, prem crews and even prem modules and that is not fair on the newbies in t8, how do you expect the server to survive if this is what they get from your clan. Some of us want this server to survive."
Pubbie 2
"What's pathetic and un Australian is you and the other [edited] complaining about those here behind their backs on the other forum. What's pathetic is thinking you are better than others on forums and in the game and big noting yourself when blind Feddy can see your sudden improvement on purchasing vpack"

RainbowAssassin #20 Posted 16 July 2019 - 03:38 PM

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View PostSaffelicious, on 16 July 2019 - 03:23 PM, said:

Sure, you can still apply skill to them, thats kind of obvious, but that does not change the fact that you can be super useful without actually being skillful in them. 

Let me put it this way,

A person playing a normal LT will not get "lucky" and outplay or out spot a team in an EBR that happens a lot. 

And like I said above, if you overextend there is a big chance that you will get away with it.

You don't in say a T100. 

 

I was actually saying how you don't need to use your circles and bushes (skill) in a EBR, and how a T100 has to, so yes, I agreed with your point. Theres also the stupid expanded auto aim circle.

 

On a ridge line, like you said, a 279 is pretty dominant, a Chieftain is as well, albeit not the hull. Although a Chieftain is more manoeuvrable and has a  better gun. So in a way its a new top tier tank, the same way the 907 is "OP", it can do things nothing else can, same with the 279. Im not taking away from your point though, the 279 can be quite annoying, although I think its not detrimental and CW is still enjoyable with its addition, my opinion might change when every joe has one like they do with the 260, but then Ill just run away to open maps. There has always been top tier tanks, now theres just a new one, and its top tier ability is to deflect everything from the front if put on a semi decent angle.


Edited by RainbowAssassin, 16 July 2019 - 03:42 PM.

 
Living in the wilderness as a unicum unicorn         

Tier 10 3 marks: IS-4, IS-7, T57 Heavy Tank, FV217 Badger, Leopard 1, AMX 50 B, Object 140, Conqueror Gun Carriage, VK 72.01 (K), FV215b (183), Super Conqueror, Object 277, T-100 LT, Jagdpanzer E 100, Bat.-châtillon 25 t, WZ 111 model 5A, FV215b, Centurion Action X, Object 430U, Type 5 Heavy, 60TP Lewandowskiego, T-62A, E100
 

 





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