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[Announcement] Global Map Season 12 - things you need to know [updated Aug 14th]


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HoPeY_ #21 Posted 14 August 2019 - 05:45 PM

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Mobious.

 

Fix would be go back to tier 8 till actually have this ready. Just a thought.

 

View PostU12D13, on 14 August 2019 - 04:21 PM, said:

 

Wrong in so many levels. 

 

- It applies a misconception to new players on commitment to such activities that are deliberately aimed at end game content. 

 

Not end game contents, it's just CW, you know, having a bit of fun. Not all about winning and getting in the best teams.... Activity.

 

- It throws new players into a field of coordination and strategy + a whole new system (global map) outside of simply playing the game. Even a good number of seasoned cw players dont understand how the chipping works, be it a logic block or pure laziness to grasp yet another system/ mechanic. 

 

It doesn't throw them under the bus, they learn stuff from other players early. Or do they suddenly know this stuff because they show up for tier 10 after no other experiences?

 

- Veteran players will snuff out any casual competition and more likely discourage new players from furthering the game, and much less in competitive mode, rather than promote activity. Who signs up for a free to play game, and then gets invested in it by being brutally shut down in a competitive scene? Not everyone is a big M or aims to be bottom feed, Hopey.

 

What's changed? there has always been top tier clans. We regularly get smashed by the likes of TEAL. It seems to me it's more the bottom end that's leaving. Or maybe just everyone.

 

- Most new players dont even know what angling / double bushing/ camo/ viewrange or their tank type to begin with. Sniping defenders and assaulting Borsigs in CWs? Yikes.

 

But if they have a 10 they good to go suddenly after no previous CW experience? Get in a clan, listen and learn.

 

If anything, it will very, VERY, effectively cause new players to drop the game and never come back. Don't believe it? Try tier I CWs. #EveryoneGetsAChanceYeah?

 

Wrong on so many levels.

 

 

Extra edit: Theres something called stronghold skirmish, which is essentially watered-down CWs FOR newer players, which even caters for tier 6 and 8. So your point...? If it ain't working there, it sure as hell wont in the main CWs scene. 

 

Tier 8 Scrims been dead for forever. So where do new people practice? oh, tier 6 or wait till they have a 10...

 



Ezz #22 Posted 14 August 2019 - 05:50 PM

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View PostHoPeY_, on 14 August 2019 - 07:45 PM, said:

So where do new people practice? oh, tier 6 or wait till they have a 10

We both can drop the old 'back in my day', but honestly, there are more ways to practice now than there were back then. People just don't bother with them.

 

View PostHoPeY_, on 14 August 2019 - 07:45 PM, said:

Wrong on so many levels.

True. He probably should have said 'have a whinge about putting in lots of effort for not enough rewards', then drop the game.


Edited by Ezz, 14 August 2019 - 05:50 PM.

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HoPeY_ #23 Posted 14 August 2019 - 06:00 PM

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View PostEzz, on 14 August 2019 - 05:50 PM, said:

We both can drop the old 'back in my day', but honestly, there are more ways to practice now than there were back then. People just don't bother with them.

 

What ways can they get sudden magic abilities for tier 10 CW? These are the active choices I see.

 

Tier 6 Scrims. Fun but not much of a learning tool as has has been mentioned a million times.

Tier 10 Advances. Not quite tier 10 CW but close. But the big boys like to lurk here to ruin the learning experience so to me new players learn more out of the more slower and structured tier 10 CW.

 

What other activities you talking Ezz?



chook_on_a_stick #24 Posted 14 August 2019 - 06:06 PM

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View PostMobius99, on 14 August 2019 - 05:44 PM, said:


No weekly leaderboard or tournament for Western front, and the VP are calculated separately for the 2 fronts.
So what you see here:
https://asia.wargaming.net/globalmap/?link_place=wotp_link_main-menu#leaderboards/33/season_12_sg_tier10_15x15

Is the weekly ranking for Eastern front, and weekly tournament will setup based on the rankings here every week.


What you see in the clan portal is also affect by the technical issue - the portal leaderboard and logs are not able to differentiate 2 fronts since they are both tier X.
Take Sabre for example:
https://asia.wargaming.net/clans/wot/2000010912/globalmap

SABRE's VP were from Western front, but from log on Clan Portal, you can't tell the difference.
It's the very first time (among all servers) we ever trial a setup of Tier X with 2 fronts, which wasn't even considered when devs build current Global Map system.

Unfortunately, there's no available fix for seasonal leaderboard at the moment, at least not in this season.


We will try to work with devs for possible alternatives.

 


That makes it a bit hard to plan battles, work out if you can take a rest day etc.

Really hard for me to believe that no one though about testing this or how sensible (not very) it is to run a competition over 4 weeks without having a way for teams to see where they are.


I don't think this has been well though through, either the game implications or the customer service or game credibility aspect.

The least WG should have done was publish the details you have given us above, though I have a feeling that we are in for more surprises.

@mobius99 can you please pass back to your management that as a paying customer I am seeing less and less value in the game and feel like I am being treated with contempt.

PS if WG are willing to give me acccess to the code base, a few hours of dev  time to ask questions, a test server(s) and $1 AUD (so we can have a binding employment  contract with NDA to protect WGs IP) I will do the work required to implement a ladder for the Eastern front. I'm not joking.  Can you please pass that on to WG?
I'm happy to provide a LinkedIn page or my CV in private.


 


Edited by chook_on_a_stick, 14 August 2019 - 06:09 PM.


HexHammer #25 Posted 14 August 2019 - 08:11 PM

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View PostTwit_, on 14 August 2019 - 08:26 AM, said:


Which is why there are nightly tier VIII SH happening all the time...…. Surprised you weren't saying tier VI 

 

Either works. 7vs7 is plausible to actually get a bunch of buddies together to start a new clan. Tier 8 is plausible so they can actually have tanks to  compete. Tier6 / 7vs7 is plausible to actually get new guys into playing clan wars.

 

No new clans - no new players. My old clan died because of this b/s/. Some went to other clans. Most left the game. Most that went to other clans ended up leaving the game. Players are leaving, experienced CWs players and there is none to replace them.

 

A lot of guys are working guys too, and they are also shut out. Also a lot of middle age guys play this game that will never be good enough to get into one of the remaining active clans. They are shut out. Both the latter are actually the type that have the $$ to pay for the server costs.

 

Noone gives a shit about esports competitive tanks anyway. Recently there was some playoff between a NA clan and some Asia clan - Yeti or some such, with some rewards if you chose the correct clan that won. Who won that playoff? No-one knows and no-one cares. No-one even cared if they got their prize for choosing right....

 

Anyway F-S the next clan to fade away,  the slow motion trainwreck continues.

 

 

 

 

 

 



Jezzalenko1978 #26 Posted 14 August 2019 - 08:20 PM

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Lads, even 10 v 10 tier ten CW's needs to be abolished.... Have a look at the bigger picture, there are faaaaaaaaaaaar too many capable clans playing 10 v 10 not playing the Eastern 15 v 15 front.

 

Even -2AR- (and i don't mean this in a bad way) (who were set up as a tier 8 only group for those that wanted to learn the game in an active community) have stepped up into the 15 v 15 at tier 10...  Yup, it means a whole bunch of us will lose more than we win; but at the same time learn, adapt, and at least try.........

 

Watering down has removed the shine, and instead of having a bunch of 10v10, let alone the ol' tier 6, tier 8 whiners (at least its [edited] tier 10 Mobius!:medal: God bless you sir!) Have everyone in the same place, same meta, same deal.... splitting the grounds is the issue we have to collectively get out of our heads that [edited] us to begin with.....

 

U12D13 - [edited] nailed it........ have a plus one good sir!

 

Lose? get better, don't take it personally, Get a win? - it feels great.......  Work in progress?  even better!

 

Reward for puppy kicking/rofl stomping? Sleep well, you know you won't!

 

 



Ezz #27 Posted 14 August 2019 - 08:24 PM

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View PostHexHammer, on 14 August 2019 - 10:11 PM, said:

Anyway F-S the next clan to fade away,  the slow motion trainwreck continues.

You'll need to demonstrate that F-S fading was related specifically to what tiers were offered, and not to the natural life cycle of clans. Otherwise it sounds a lot like more of your 'brit lights need a nerf' level of material.


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IMC_Jimmy #28 Posted 14 August 2019 - 08:29 PM

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AKASHA178 #29 Posted 14 August 2019 - 08:39 PM

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tier x cw like old times 

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Twit_ #30 Posted 14 August 2019 - 08:46 PM

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View PostHexHammer, on 14 August 2019 - 08:11 PM, said:

 

Anyway F-S the next clan to fade away,  the slow motion trainwreck continues.

 

 

Bolyx, we didn't stop playing CW because there wasn't tier VIII. We stopped because the CO and our caller couldn't guarantee a commitment to sustained CW, at least to the level we usually played. 

 

We regularly played advances and last I recall we were position 8 on the leaderboard. So hardly a tier VIII clan. Maybe that would be true if this was a year ago and F-S-A was a thing, but it isn't.



MagicalFlyingFox #31 Posted 14 August 2019 - 10:14 PM

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:popcorn:

I am not needed 

 

 

i also knew about this a while ago


Edited by MagicalFlyingFox, 14 August 2019 - 10:14 PM.

http://www.theuselessweb.com/

 A. Guy on 02 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

Destroyer of Tier 6 CW... says it all about you.


HexHammer #32 Posted 15 August 2019 - 07:28 AM

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View PostTwit_, on 14 August 2019 - 08:46 PM, said:

 

Bolyx, we didn't stop playing CW because there wasn't tier VIII. We stopped because the CO and our caller couldn't guarantee a commitment to sustained CW, at least to the level we usually played. 

 

We regularly played advances and last I recall we were position 8 on the leaderboard. So hardly a tier VIII clan. Maybe that would be true if this was a year ago and F-S-A was a thing, but it isn't.

 

You did have not have the players to do it, you just making excuses dude. Another dead clan, the remaining clan wars participants shrinks further. CWs and clans become even less relevant.

 

The fact is if there was tier6 social clan wars, more people will be logging in, more tanks and premium sales for Wargaming. Same for tier 8, now they have killed that thee will be even less people logging in and even less sales of premiums and premium time for wargaming. I look at my discord and see hundreds of players thet left the game when their clans died. The clan is what kept them coming back, when the clan died the game died for them. The popel making the decisions at wargaming are mad, they are ruining the fun for a lot of people and in the long run will be doing a disservice to their workmates that need the business and sales to keep them in work..

 

If WG were sacrificing their profits for a better clan wars system it could maybe be understood, but even the clan system is failing. Because it is now literally impossible to start a new clan wars clan, and literally impossible for a newbie coming to the game to participate in clan wars. Last season there was no clan rivalry, the clan forums were dead, and the only feedback was it was the most boring campaign yet.

 

So I log in every new season to see if there is any change. On this occasion they killed tier8 which is even worse now, so I will log in when season 13 starts hoping for positive change



pr154 #33 Posted 15 August 2019 - 08:27 AM

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I personally don't believe Tier-capability is an obstacle because the content is there - IMHO it's an issue of reach and lack of initiative

 

I'd wager there are alot of players on the server who'd be keen to do more in the competitive space, but are either:
a) Reliant on inactive / apathetic clan officers to duly inform them of competitive events

b) Reliant on inactive / apathetic clan officers to raise and call detachments

c) Blindly loyal to inactive clans because that's where their mates are

 

As a solutions-driven fella, I would suggest:

A) Can be fixed by a more direct reach to those players to inform them of competitive activities - Spamming the user-interface perhaps?

B) Can be fixed by better distinction of clans as casual/family units as opposed to competitive aspirants, allowing for more informed choices on application

C) Can't be fixed without encouragement to move as a group to greener pastures

 

We've recruited a heap of people by making friends in Randoms, and giving them a taste of competitive play in Skirmish and Advances as legionnaires, but despite that it had often taken months of off-season legionnairing before we could convert them to actually join the clan. Once inside, that's when the revelation occurs about all that they've been missing in their inactive outfit. If you can reach them, they'll come, but reaching them is the hard part.


Edited by pr154, 15 August 2019 - 08:38 AM.


AlexTheKid72 #34 Posted 15 August 2019 - 10:05 AM

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View PostMobius99, on 14 August 2019 - 04:14 PM, said:


No weekly leaderboard or tournament for Western front, and the VP are calculated separately for the 2 fronts.
So what you see here:
https://asia.wargaming.net/globalmap/?link_place=wotp_link_main-menu#leaderboards/33/season_12_sg_tier10_15x15

Is the weekly ranking for Eastern front, and weekly tournament will setup based on the rankings here every week.


What you see in the clan portal is also affect by the technical issue - the portal leaderboard and logs are not able to differentiate 2 fronts since they are both tier X.
Take Sabre for example:
https://asia.wargaming.net/clans/wot/2000010912/globalmap

SABRE's VP were from Western front, but from log on Clan Portal, you can't tell the difference.
It's the very first time (among all servers) we ever trial a setup of Tier X with 2 fronts, which wasn't even considered when devs build current Global Map system.

Unfortunately, there's no available fix for seasonal leaderboard at the moment, at least not in this season.


We will try to work with devs for possible alternatives.

 

Is this not the sort of thing QA should pick up on BEFORE release?


Edited by AlexTheKid72, 15 August 2019 - 10:05 AM.


AlexTheKid72 #35 Posted 15 August 2019 - 10:07 AM

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View PostHoPeY_, on 14 August 2019 - 06:00 PM, said:

 

What ways can they get sudden magic abilities for tier 10 CW? These are the active choices I see.

 

Tier 6 Scrims. Fun but not much of a learning tool as has has been mentioned a million times.

Tier 10 Advances. Not quite tier 10 CW but close. But the big boys like to lurk here to ruin the learning experience so to me new players learn more out of the more slower and structured tier 10 CW.

 

What other activities you talking Ezz?

Teir 10 Advances is not a choice when top clans exploit the system.
Field 13 players for first battle to [edited]the rating matchmaker. Then add the 2 highest pr players and field 15 for the rest. Total exploitation of the system. No learning curve room here, just clubbings.



CelestiaLudenberg #36 Posted 15 August 2019 - 01:16 PM

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Hopey still with the classic Boomer mentality, minimal effort but wants to get all the rewards like the good ol' days.


>When I hear a 4 door 20e auto 33 going WADADADADADADADADADADADADADADA in the rain


CelestiaLudenberg #37 Posted 15 August 2019 - 01:21 PM

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View PostAlexTheKid72, on 15 August 2019 - 02:07 PM, said:

Teir 10 Advances is not a choice when top clans exploit the system.
Field 13 players for first battle to [edited]the rating matchmaker. Then add the 2 highest pr players and field 15 for the rest. Total exploitation of the system. No learning curve room here, just clubbings.

 

Not really how it works champ.

 

The MM is far, far more weighted toward elo matching, if you get a high elo clan when you are a low elo clan, it is usually due to you being the only 2 teams running at that time slot.

 

It's just like CW tournament MM, it matches all similar elo clans against eachother, and if there is an uneven amount of teams, the highest elo clan gets the tech.

 

It's just that for advances there are a couple more elements in the mix such as how clans can't face the clan they fought last, i.e you can't fight the same clan back-to-back. So if on one night you play 1 advance, and there are only 3 teams in that slot, being SABRE, REIGN and TEAL, provided you have not faced eachother at all as the last advance you played, the MM will match REIGN and SABRE against eachother and give us a tech.

 

Then, the next time you queue, the MM blocks you from fighting, forcing one of you to go against us and tech the other, provided it is still the same 3 teams in queue, if that makes sense.


>When I hear a 4 door 20e auto 33 going WADADADADADADADADADADADADADADA in the rain


HoPeY_ #38 Posted 15 August 2019 - 01:57 PM

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View PostCelestiaLudenberg, on 15 August 2019 - 01:16 PM, said:

Hopey still with the classic Boomer mentality, minimal effort but wants to get all the rewards like the good ol' days.

 

 

I do? Where in this thread did I mention that?

 

Schooling these days...



HoPeY_ #39 Posted 15 August 2019 - 01:59 PM

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View PostCelestiaLudenberg, on 15 August 2019 - 01:21 PM, said:

 

Not really how it works champ.

 

The MM is far, far more weighted toward elo matching, if you get a high elo clan when you are a low elo clan, it is usually due to you being the only 2 teams running at that time slot.

 

It's just like CW tournament MM, it matches all similar elo clans against eachother, and if there is an uneven amount of teams, the highest elo clan gets the tech.

 

It's just that for advances there are a couple more elements in the mix such as how clans can't face the clan they fought last, i.e you can't fight the same clan back-to-back. So if on one night you play 1 advance, and there are only 3 teams in that slot, being SABRE, REIGN and TEAL, provided you have not faced eachother at all as the last advance you played, the MM will match REIGN and SABRE against eachother and give us a tech.

 

Then, the next time you queue, the MM blocks you from fighting, forcing one of you to go against us and tech the other, provided it is still the same 3 teams in queue, if that makes sense.

 

Or just field 13 at the start like a good dodgy clan and get around ELO hey :)



U12D13 #40 Posted 15 August 2019 - 02:20 PM

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Block Quote

Going to reply to Hopey's bolded responses in blue here. Dang, hate this formatting.

 

Wrong in so many levels. 

 

- It applies a misconception to new players on commitment to such activities that are deliberately aimed at end game content. 

 

Not end game contents, it's just CW, you know, having a bit of fun. Not all about winning and getting in the best teams.... Activity.

 

CW IS the end game content. Thinking of CWs as anything else is already a big mistake. CWs is literally designed as an activity for players that have made their way to the top of the tech trees. Your so called "just for fun" mode - that's strongholds.

 

- It throws new players into a field of coordination and strategy + a whole new system (global map) outside of simply playing the game. Even a good number of seasoned cw players dont understand how the chipping works, be it a logic block or pure laziness to grasp yet another system/ mechanic. 

 

It doesn't throw them under the bus, they learn stuff from other players early. Or do they suddenly know this stuff because they show up for tier 10 after no other experiences?

 

They should be learning stuff from other players via playing the game normally, more specifically the game mechanics. Only after they mastered that (hopefully by the time they reach tier X) then they are "qualified" or ready to undertake new mechanics. Not everyone strives to be trash.

 

- Veteran players will snuff out any casual competition and more likely discourage new players from furthering the game, and much less in competitive mode, rather than promote activity. Who signs up for a free to play game, and then gets invested in it by being brutally shut down in a competitive scene? Not everyone is a big M or aims to be bottom feed, Hopey.

 

What's changed? there has always been top tier clans. We regularly get smashed by the likes of TEAL. It seems to me it's more the bottom end that's leaving. Or maybe just everyone.

 

And you never stopped to wonder why you get smashed? Perhaps a lack of readiness, to put it nicely. And that bottom end that's leaving? Yeah its probably those new players that got burnt while dabbling in the CW scene unprepared.

 

- Most new players dont even know what angling / double bushing/ camo/ viewrange or their tank type to begin with. Sniping defenders and assaulting Borsigs in CWs? Yikes.

 

But if they have a 10 they good to go suddenly after no previous CW experience? Get in a clan, listen and learn.

 

If they got to tier 10, they probably failed their way there or has some level of commitment to the game. Failing their way to tier X would result in no clan accepting them anyways. So by having a couple of meta tier Xs (which is the basic requirement of most clans nowadays) and decent-ish stats, they would be more than ready to start in the CW scene. Getting into a random clan and listening / "learning"? Well, very few good clans even provide that for new players. So what happens when a new player is "learning" from people giving bad advice? Or clans that are a collection of 46%ers telling others how to play the game (**cough cough** snipe **red line**)? Its no longer called a clan, its called a trash can - collecting garbage.

 

If anything, it will very, VERY, effectively cause new players to drop the game and never come back. Don't believe it? Try tier I CWs. #EveryoneGetsAChanceYeah?

 

Wrong on so many levels.

 

Wrong? Do explain, despite you contradicting yourself by saying that the "bottom end/ everyone is leaving" (see above). 

 

Extra edit: Theres something called stronghold skirmish, which is essentially watered-down CWs FOR newer players, which even caters for tier 6 and 8. So your point...? If it ain't working there, it sure as hell wont in the main CWs scene. 

 

Tier 8 Scrims been dead for forever. So where do new people practice? oh, tier 6 or wait till they have a 10...

 

Thanks for proving my point exactly. If tier 8 CWs is your so-called ideal haven to promote competitive play, why IS tier 8 Scrims dead? Your opinions and views on this matter literally got nuked (by your own observation as a matter of fact) by the literal fact that tier 8 DOES NOT work, even though it IS available in watered-down CWs mode. 

 

 


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