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wasaabi #21 Posted 17 September 2019 - 08:26 AM

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Skirmishes are similar to Tank Companies in the past, it took a lot of effort to get TCs running so if you want that mode to succeed then be prepared to use all the communications channels to promote it and be prepared to sit in queue waiting for quite a few weeks until it gets traction.

 

 

 

 

 

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HexHammer #22 Posted 21 September 2019 - 09:06 AM

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There are still some social clans kicking around so it is not too late to revive it. 

 

Reviving the social clans is not an issue that will go away. I will just return you all to the point that right now there is no real way to start a new active clan, and there is no way for a new player to participate in clan wars. Most people like OP dont bother coming to the forums but there are plenty out there that suffer the same problem. Killing off the tier 6 clan comp did not force then to play tier10, they all just stopped playing and the stats completely prove this

 

It is like now watering a plant, this whole clan system will continue to wither and die until the change is made. Have your Fire Trail / Operation Gambit tier 10 events sure, but you desperately need a low tier 7vs7 global map campaign for the social clans.

 

And you know what? It will be many times more popular than the current tier10 global map, and a whole bunch of old, currently inactive clans will emerge from the woodwork to have another go. And a whole bunch of new clans will also form. And they will start forming rivalries. And there it will start to grow again.



Ezz #23 Posted 21 September 2019 - 09:54 AM

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Why would a new player expect to be able to jump straight into end game content? As is they can jump straight into organised battles, plus with the crazy amounts of boosters and xp specials the grind to a 10 is almost trivial.

Edited by Ezz, 21 September 2019 - 09:54 AM.

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HoPeY_ #24 Posted 21 September 2019 - 02:23 PM

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View PostEzz, on 21 September 2019 - 09:54 AM, said:

Why would a new player expect to be able to jump straight into end game content? As is they can jump straight into organised battles, plus with the crazy amounts of boosters and xp specials the grind to a 10 is almost trivial.

 

Most of us jumper in at the start to tier 10 battles (even with trusty tier 1's etc), 5 or 6 years ago. Why can't they now?

 

Oh... cause hard to notice low tier people and get them into it. Now we have to look for people near tier 10 as every avenue below tier 10 has been killed off by bad decisions. Who would have thought..



HoPeY_ #25 Posted 21 September 2019 - 02:32 PM

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View PostIMC_Jimmy, on 16 September 2019 - 10:27 AM, said:

Oh boy, just what the doctor ordered, another post about tier 6 clan wars. I remember last night over 10 clans lining up for war games.Blox and Hopey I hear you guys have a unicorn in the paddock needs to be milked,  plz attend to that , cheers.

 

Where did I mention tier 6? I said 6/8 but support anything that encourages growth. I think the Unicorn has got to you.

 

10 clans lining up for WG's is better than the usual 0 to 4 when incentives aint offered. Now imaging if incentives were offered at lower tiers.

 

But please ignore the elephant in the room. Blame other reasons for plummeting numbers as tier 10 CW and advances slowly dwindles to a couple of teams total. Seems the tier 10 people have got what they wanted... must be hard to realise with present crazy low numbers how wrong you have been about everything.


Edited by HoPeY_, 21 September 2019 - 03:03 PM.


Napalmer #26 Posted 21 September 2019 - 03:27 PM

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Yep, can't wait for tier 6 only CW dominated by the larger clans. What a well thought out idea, Hex.

 

Oh wait, you just want a map where all the new players get a daily income.

 

For the last time, diluting the players kills activity. I should know, as it's incredibly difficult when the players are diluted between HK and AU for Frontlines.


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HoPeY_ #27 Posted 21 September 2019 - 03:55 PM

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View PostNapalmer, on 21 September 2019 - 03:27 PM, said:

Yep, can't wait for tier 6 only CW dominated by the larger clans. What a well thought out idea, Hex.

 

DETOX did fine back in early tier 6 CW and there were strong clans there. It's all about setting up the map correctly.

 

Oh wait, you just want a map where all the new players get a daily income.

 

He never said that. But my personal opinion is I also don't want a map where 1% get 99.9% of rewards.

 

For the last time, diluting the players kills activity. I should know, as it's incredibly difficult when the players are diluted between HK and AU for Frontlines.

 

Seems more like killing off lower tiers has killed activity. There is no dilution now and there is very little activity. Where has all the new blood gone?

 



solid_snakeMGS #28 Posted 21 September 2019 - 08:40 PM

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View PostNapalmer, on 21 September 2019 - 07:27 AM, said:

Yep, can't wait for tier 6 only CW dominated by the larger clans. What a well thought out idea, Hex.

 

Oh wait, you just want a map where all the new players get a daily income.

 

For the last time, diluting the players kills activity. I should know, as it's incredibly difficult when the players are diluted between HK and AU for Frontlines.

*holds nose* larger clans? the last campaign that had tier 6s and 8s was hardly dominated by larger campaigns. Probably when you were with TFS and ANZAF. Making the map smaller killed activity, but you would know all about that. Yeti would know all about that. :B Remember your twitch conversation with jimmy after the campaign earlier in the year. seems you struggled for numbers then, sorta show the dilution of activity then.



HexHammer #29 Posted 21 September 2019 - 08:46 PM

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View PostEzz, on 21 September 2019 - 09:54 AM, said:

Why would a new player expect to be able to jump straight into end game content? 

 

It was this attempt to make CWs end game content that brought about the collapse of the ANZ clan scene.

 

They need to find another form of end game content, because this attempt has proven a complete failure. As guys like me and Hopey warned everyone would happen. We were there on the ground, so to speak. We saw firsthand the consequences of killing off the social clans. 

 

 



solid_snakeMGS #30 Posted 21 September 2019 - 08:53 PM

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View PostHexHammer, on 21 September 2019 - 12:46 PM, said:

 

It was this attempt to make CWs end game content that brought about the collapse of the ANZ clan scene.

 

They need to find another form of end game content, because this attempt has proven a complete failure. As guys like me and Hopey warned everyone would happen. We were there on the ground, so to speak. We saw firsthand the consequences of killing off the social clans. 

 

 

Elitist attitude really. Evan 1AR are in this frame of mind and a lot of their players sit in tier 4-6, but cricticize Hopey and other people's opinion, quite sad really. The game was far more active between 2013-2016.



HexHammer #31 Posted 21 September 2019 - 09:06 PM

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View PostNapalmer, on 21 September 2019 - 03:27 PM, said:

Yep, can't wait for tier 6 only CW dominated by the larger clans. What a well thought out idea, Hex.

 

Oh wait, you just want a map where all the new players get a daily income.

 

For the last time, diluting the players kills activity. I should know, as it's incredibly difficult when the players are diluted between HK and AU for Frontlines.

 

You have run out of numbers because the social / development clans have been killed off. And I will repeat again, it is now impossible to start a new active clan, and impossible for a new player to participate in clan wars - so no new players for you, and the eventual death on the ANZ clan community is absolutely certain

 

Compare that to the end of the final teir6 clan wars season when the mighty 1AR was active and had two sub clans. Now look at them.  Can even they regularly field a team now?

 

The slow death of clans like ANZAF, LANCR, CRAZY NZAD, (all had decent sub-clans) was a canary in the coalmine that things were not right.

 

We warned you then and I warn you now. And the whole thing will totally die unless you revive the grassroots by giving the newbs some clanwars to fight in.

 

Also, and the multipliers in the Reward tank completions - that is what killed BAMF. And also what killed a lot of clans. This mercenary mentality where players abandon clans to group together,  to game the system using the multiplier   technologies is [edited] disgusting.



Ezz #32 Posted 21 September 2019 - 10:16 PM

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View PostHexHammer, on 21 September 2019 - 10:46 PM, said:

 

It was this attempt to make CWs end game content that brought about the collapse of the ANZ clan scene

 

And then the kids realised the collapse of CW may not be related to their fragile heart.


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Napalmer #33 Posted 21 September 2019 - 11:27 PM

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View PostWorldGreatest_Corrupters, on 21 September 2019 - 10:40 PM, said:

*holds nose* larger clans? the last campaign that had tier 6s and 8s was hardly dominated by larger campaigns. Probably when you were with TFS and ANZAF. Making the map smaller killed activity, but you would know all about that. Yeti would know all about that. :B Remember your twitch conversation with jimmy after the campaign earlier in the year. seems you struggled for numbers then, sorta show the dilution of activity then.

 

You don't think having smaller team sizes means that larger clans have a massive advantage? I remember that campaign some had 7 or 8 games at once, and they did incredibly well.

The difference back then was there was a lot of clans that 'gave it a go' - something I don't see you doing any more. Apparently complaining is easier.

Why would I know all about making the map smaller? Last season it was larger than ever, partly due to people like myself in YETI and TEAL asking for it.

As for the conversation with Jimmy, it's natural that the large clans burn out after campaign. Every clan does. We just had clan tournament tonight and we had 20-25 people come out of nowhere ready to play.

 

View PostHexHammer, on 21 September 2019 - 11:06 PM, said:

 

You have run out of numbers because the social / development clans have been killed off. And I will repeat again, it is now impossible to start a new active clan, and impossible for a new player to participate in clan wars - so no new players for you, and the eventual death on the ANZ clan community is absolutely certain

 

Compare that to the end of the final teir6 clan wars season when the mighty 1AR was active and had two sub clans. Now look at them.  Can even they regularly field a team now?

 

The slow death of clans like ANZAF, LANCR, CRAZY NZAD, (all had decent sub-clans) was a canary in the coalmine that things were not right.

 

We warned you then and I warn you now. And the whole thing will totally die unless you revive the grassroots by giving the newbs some clanwars to fight in.

 

Also, and the multipliers in the Reward tank completions - that is what killed BAMF. And also what killed a lot of clans. This mercenary mentality where players abandon clans to group together,  to game the system using the multiplier   technologies is [edited] disgusting.

 

It was always impossible for a new player to participate in Clan Wars when I first joined. Sure, you could ready up your stock tier 8 and be thrown into a tier 10 battle, but it's more a clown fiesta than actual clan wars. Nobody enjoyed an easy win against clans with less numbers and lower tier tanks. Then tier 6 came along and started diluting the player base. Social clans became tier 6 CW clans, and active clans started playing where the battles were, so they could get fights (funny how this still hasn't changed).

 

This dilution killed off a lot of the competition. Whatever happened to FURY/RAGE, DPS/RPS, LUCK/FLUKE and the other old clans? At a guess, they probably got bored and moved onto playing other games.

The reason why people played tier 6 CW was because it was an entry point to co-ordinated gameplay. Tier 6 Strongholds has almost died out (This topic btw).

Surely if the social clans thought tier 6 that important, it shouldn't be a problem to get games, yet it is.

This boils down to what the game has become due to a lack of competition. A select few that are active playing in the current clans, and the rest being casual players.

 

ANZAF merged with RGB who are active, LANCR I have no idea about (apparently they're still a thing?), CRAZY had players merge and move on, and NZAD as far as I am aware is a casual clan.

This goes back to the same point. Those who are active and interested merge and move on. Those that aren't stay in the same clan and it becomes social. It's the same reason I left TFS, ANZAF and CRAZY, seeing as you like digging up my past.

 

You whined then that CW would die. It hasn't.

What would happen if Tier 6 came back tomorrow? You'd get the same casual clans arguing over small amounts of gold, never wanting to improve and never wanting to move up.

The clans that are giving it a go on tier 10 would flock back to the easy games, and you'd go back to constant complaints of clans 'not fighting where they should be'.

If you want to get new players to 'get some experience', put some effort in and revive tier 6 SH. Tier 8s were never a thing with our low population, and Advances were always preferred over 10s.

I've shown it's possible to get the ANZ Community together if you put time and effort in. Take a look at ANZ Frontlines as an example.

The solution lies with those who want to play low tiers, not WG and not with the large clans.

 

The multiplier in some of the earlier campaigns was slightly flawed as you say, but it's natural for players to leave and look for greener pastures come campaign. The last campaign was purely about how much a player played and how well they did in those games. Perhaps it wasn't the multipliers that killed your clan, and instead was the harsh reality that campaigns reward skill and teamwork much more now.


Edited by Napalmer, 21 September 2019 - 11:27 PM.

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HoPeY_ #34 Posted 21 September 2019 - 11:56 PM

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View PostNapalmer, on 21 September 2019 - 11:27 PM, said:

 

You don't think having smaller team sizes means that larger clans have a massive advantage? I remember that campaign some had 7 or 8 games at once, and they did incredibly well.

The difference back then was there was a lot of clans that 'gave it a go' - something I don't see you doing any more. Apparently complaining is easier.

 

He was part of the team that recently helped remove TEAL from the 15 vs 15 map... So I guess he is still giving it a go.

 

Why would I know all about making the map smaller? Last season it was larger than ever, partly due to people like myself in YETI and TEAL asking for it.

 

So are you saying you get listened to? Funny, I've carried on about shrinking map sizes myself... So maybe you should not just praise yourself.

 

As for the conversation with Jimmy, it's natural that the large clans burn out after campaign. Every clan does. We just had clan tournament tonight and we had 20-25 people come out of nowhere ready to play.

 

 

It was always impossible for a new player to participate in Clan Wars when I first joined.

 

What BS, we got many, many new people into clans and activity back then including both of us.

 

Sure, you could ready up your stock tier 8 and be thrown into a tier 10 battle, but it's more a clown fiesta than actual clan wars. Nobody enjoyed an easy win against clans with less numbers and lower tier tanks. Then tier 6 came along and started diluting the player base. Social clans became tier 6 CW clans, and active clans started playing where the battles were, so they could get fights (funny how this still hasn't changed).

 

Activity and building clans...those were the days. Oh, and some rewards for the little clans too.

 

This dilution killed off a lot of the competition. Whatever happened to FURY/RAGE, DPS/RPS, LUCK/FLUKE and the other old clans? At a guess, they probably got bored and moved onto playing other games.

 

Dilution killed off nothing.

 

The reason why people played tier 6 CW was because it was an entry point to co-ordinated gameplay. Tier 6 Strongholds has almost died out (This topic btw).

Surely if the social clans thought tier 6 that important, it shouldn't be a problem to get games, yet it is.

 

People played tier 6/8 for many other reasons than what you typed. Start of season easier to get going to build back up is one (less active members needed). Building a new clan from scratch... etc etc. Now that building block and entry point is gone... Clans not starting the seasons, leaving the game.

 

This boils down to what the game has become due to a lack of competition. A select few that are active playing in the current clans, and the rest being casual players.

 

ANZAF merged with RGB who are active, LANCR I have no idea about (apparently they're still a thing?), CRAZY had players merge and move on, and NZAD as far as I am aware is a casual clan.

This goes back to the same point. Those who are active and interested merge and move on. Those that aren't stay in the same clan and it becomes social. It's the same reason I left TFS, ANZAF and CRAZY, seeing as you like digging up my past.

 

You whined then that CW would die. It hasn't.

 

It is though as now the talk of ditching 10 Vs 10...

 

 

What would happen if Tier 6 came back tomorrow? You'd get the same casual clans arguing over small amounts of gold, never wanting to improve and never wanting to move up.

 

And in what way is that a bad thing? This is a game you know, for personal enjoyment. And then I look at the many people I know who started in casual clans and worked their way up...

 

The clans that are giving it a go on tier 10 would flock back to the easy games, and you'd go back to constant complaints of clans 'not fighting where they should be'.

If you want to get new players to 'get some experience', put some effort in and revive tier 6 SH. Tier 8s were never a thing with our low population, and Advances were always preferred over 10s.

 

Putting effort into tier 6 SH should involve the management. Something similar to War Games.

 

I've shown it's possible to get the ANZ Community together if you put time and effort in. Take a look at ANZ Frontlines as an example.

The solution lies with those who want to play low tiers, not WG and not with the large clans.

 

With a lot of help via Management ie all the code giving, advertising the event etc . Hmm.

 

http://forum.worldof...izes-to-be-won/

 

The multiplier in some of the earlier campaigns was slightly flawed as you say, but it's natural for players to leave and look for greener pastures come campaign. The last campaign was purely about how much a player played and how well they did in those games. Perhaps it wasn't the multipliers that killed your clan, and instead was the harsh reality that campaigns reward skill and teamwork much more now.

 


Edited by HoPeY_, 22 September 2019 - 07:51 AM.


Ezz #35 Posted 22 September 2019 - 01:23 AM

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View PostHoPeY_, on 22 September 2019 - 01:56 AM, said:

Dilution killed off nothing.

So it was good, then dilution happened, it got shit (allegedly), then they killed tier 6, so it wasn't the dilution?  Or are you actually trying to argue cw was still healthy before they killed tier 6?


Edited by Ezz, 22 September 2019 - 01:23 AM.

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HoPeY_ #36 Posted 22 September 2019 - 01:32 AM

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CW was fine for the first few Seasons (and prior to Seasons). Changes to the map and rules started to have bad affects after this.

Edited by HoPeY_, 22 September 2019 - 01:32 AM.


pr154 #37 Posted 22 September 2019 - 06:52 AM

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View PostNapalmer, on 22 September 2019 - 01:27 AM, said:

If you want to get new players to 'get some experience', put some effort in and revive tier 6 SH. Tier 8s were never a thing with our low population, and Advances were always preferred over 10s.

I've shown it's possible to get the ANZ Community together if you put time and effort in. Take a look at ANZ Frontlines as an example.

The solution lies with those who want to play low tiers, not WG and not with the large clans.

 

Agree with most of this point - If there's a particular game mode you want to revive, your best bet is to work with other clans to make it happen.

You need key people in each clan who have the will and initiative to raise a detachment (because lets face it, most rank and file will happily noodle along waiting for the invitation)

 

I'd like to think most clans have willing and able players, they just don't want to organise it or call the fights - This responsibility generally lies with its senior officers

 

I think WG could do more to promote the mode, the best way to do that I'm not sure, but in my mind the key is to breaking that "initiative barrier" that traps the ignorant sheep with apathetic clan officers

It might be as simple as having a portal in the garage interface (rather than having to dig through sub-menus to find it) - A garage design to promote Skirmish while there aren't other special events running, and definitely while CW/GME's are keeping the more competitive clans occupied


The top clans could have a role to play here, but beckoning "come play with us" probably isn't it - I'd suggest more that community-spirited members of those top clans adopt/mentor clans that want to improve their game in that entry-level competitive space so they can activate and grow from there


Edited by pr154, 22 September 2019 - 07:05 AM.


Twit_ #38 Posted 22 September 2019 - 06:47 PM

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View PostNapalmer, on 21 September 2019 - 11:27 PM, said:

 

The difference back then was there was a lot of clans that 'gave it a go' - something I don't see you doing any more. Apparently complaining is easier.

Why would I know all about making the map smaller? Last season it was larger than ever, partly due to people like myself in YETI and TEAL asking for it.

 

It's easier buying a T-34-85M and Defender rather than actually grinding tier X tanks. Simple. Literally the reason why lower tier clan wars was dumb and broken. 

I would like to see the map reduced in size for CW seasons. Funny how ANZ clans wanted more early timezones and gold pots and yet here is literally nothing happening on there and you would be lucky to get more than 3 battles a day in the early tz when holding provinces.

Why? Gold income compared to the NA server (which has a similar player pop.) has been nerfed into the ground purely because one clan farmed so much of it; your province income is also limited to something like 10 income generating provinces, so what happened was the top clans would sit on the high income lands with no attacks on their land, and lower/mid tier clans would sit on the edge of the map and fight amongst themselves.
YETI and TEAL stopped playing this season after 2 weeks purely due to the lack of competitive ANZ clans or clans actually trying to play.
Case in point, my old clan F-S with 12 members and no active players managed to hold 4 provinces in the ANZ timezone with nobody attacking them. Literally free gold at this point because the incentive to play is not there.

Yet WG still wonders why all the activity comes at campaigns and nothing else.


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HoPeY_ #39 Posted 22 September 2019 - 06:50 PM

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Map size is fine, those seeking battles found them. You are the team who called for battles then didn't turn up when we came.

 

Like [edited]. Just because TEAL can no longer farm and be immune from multiple clan attacks your idea is to reduce land (and hopefully increase gold per land no doubt) so you can go back to farming? NO WAY.


Edited by HoPeY_, 22 September 2019 - 08:08 PM.


pr154 #40 Posted 23 September 2019 - 06:28 AM

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So erm... If we could navigate our way back to helping the OP get a few Skirmish games, that'd be greeeeat... Pretty sure there's enough "Clan X / Clan Y are dirty gold farmers" and "Bring back Tier N CW" threads you can zombie...




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