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Is Arty cheating

Arty is terrible

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The_Goblin_King #1 Posted 03 October 2019 - 04:59 PM

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So I watched a bit of this American Tanks streamer and got back into the game. I even went so far as to buy a few days premium time.

 

And once again arty has ruined my game experience and I have been forced to quit the game for another 6 months until I forget about how annoying it is.

 

This time I figured out why I hate arty so much. Which is it is legitimised Radar Hacks/Wall Hacks that the developers built into the game. In other games when people shoot other people from across the side of the map they are banned for it - it is considered cheating. In this game it is allowed and encouraged.

 

I am so sick of having a really fun and engaging tank battle, then from random you die from some guy shooting from across the map and my fun has been wrecked.

 

Why hasn't it been removed from the game?



Alita_My_Angel #2 Posted 03 October 2019 - 05:22 PM

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I don't think they added in the arty just recently, and you should have gotten used to it in your previous 52k games?

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The_Goblin_King #3 Posted 03 October 2019 - 05:29 PM

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View PostAlita_My_Angel, on 03 October 2019 - 05:22 PM, said:

I don't think they added in the arty just recently, and you should have gotten used to it in your previous 52k games?


The way it is designed is considered cheating in other games, so I have never got used to it in my 52k games. I have quit multiple occasions for long periods of time because of it. They have lost millions of players because of it.

 

I used to have around 10 friends who used to play this game. None of them do now except me. They quit for a variety of reasons, but I can tell you that none of them enjoyed the game mechanic. 

 

So yeah, my question is why they haven't removed it since the game was released? They have lost so many players from it and have had years of time to get rid of it, and haven't. Why not? 

 

As a forum moderator do you have any insight into their decision making that the rest of us don't?



Alita_My_Angel #4 Posted 03 October 2019 - 05:41 PM

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Well, they have been part of the game since quite early on, and there are numerous ways to avoid them, such as staying in covers or be constantly on the move to make yourself a harder target to it. 

 

Not every time when someone shoots you and you can't see them is considered cheating, tank destroyers with good camo can shoot others from far away and still not get spotted for it, and people have no problem with that (at least majority of them will not go as far as to quit the game because of it). For instance, a Swedish TD could be shooting you behind a bush around a hundred metre away from you and still not get spotted for it? Is it cheating? The player is simply playing the tank to its full potential, or the way they are designed to be played. If you wish to counter it, keep advancing, and eventually the camo will not hold and they will be spotted. 

 

Over your course of playing, how many opinions raised by players are listened by WG? Not a lot. Mostly it's just "You like it, you play it. You don't like it, then goodbye". If you really do not like this mechanic then maybe World of Tanks is not the game for you, because it is part of the game (at least for the foreseeable future).

 

As a moderator I do not have any means to be part of WG's decision making in any way, all I can say is maybe you can make a thread in the Suggestions forum, sound your opinion there, find many to support you, and pray for your opinion to be heard and addressed.


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The_Goblin_King #5 Posted 03 October 2019 - 06:16 PM

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View PostAlita_My_Angel, on 03 October 2019 - 05:41 PM, said:

Well, they have been part of the game since quite early on, and there are numerous ways to avoid them, such as staying in covers or be constantly on the move to make yourself a harder target to it. 

 

Not every time when someone shoots you and you can't see them is considered cheating, tank destroyers with good camo can shoot others from far away and still not get spotted for it, and people have no problem with that (at least majority of them will not go as far as to quit the game because of it). For instance, a Swedish TD could be shooting you behind a bush around a hundred metre away from you and still not get spotted for it? Is it cheating? The player is simply playing the tank to its full potential, or the way they are designed to be played. If you wish to counter it, keep advancing, and eventually the camo will not hold and they will be spotted. 

 

Over your course of playing, how many opinions raised by players are listened by WG? Not a lot. Mostly it's just "You like it, you play it. You don't like it, then goodbye". If you really do not like this mechanic then maybe World of Tanks is not the game for you, because it is part of the game (at least for the foreseeable future).

 

As a moderator I do not have any means to be part of WG's decision making in any way, all I can say is maybe you can make a thread in the Suggestions forum, sound your opinion there, find many to support you, and pray for your opinion to be heard and addressed.


You suggest that there are ways of staying safe in the game from arty. Those ways are to hide behind solid cover and not move and play an exciting game. Arty stifles fun play. And even if you are behind cover you can still get hit by the area of effect.

 

TDs are a much more manageable element of the game and don't cause the same frustration. If you get hit by a TD it is line of sight. They have limited lines of attack with the current map design. Their game play is much more like a normal sniper roll in other PVP games and is understandable and not random. As a moderator who has played a lot of games, do you hear the same level of complaints about TDs? Probably not I'd suggest.

 

What is confusing to me is WGing must have realised what a bad game mechanic it is, because they went and changed it to stunning. Which I was hopeful was going to help it make it better, but in the end I am still very frustrated by it. But they didn't remove it at that point. Or soon afterward. Why not?

 

What caused me to rant about arty this particular time, was I was driving up the hill on Malinovka (out of TD line of sight), I got lit up by a light tank, no fault of my own and no way to avoid it. And then I got hit by arty and died. I thought to myself, how is that fun? How is that good game design? In what way does that scenario make me want to play the game? Can you answer those questions for me? Because no one else has been able to.

 

But yes, you are right, the arty mechanic definitely means this game isn't for me. I just keep on forgetting that fact and coming back every 6 months or so. I think my level of frustration is that this is otherwise a great game. It's just ruined by one game mechanic.



jerrek1 #6 Posted 04 October 2019 - 06:10 AM

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Its easy for wargaming to examine there playing base and determine that 10 - 20 $ of the base play mostly arty. So they leave it in. Of course the number of players who leave cannot easily be measured.

If there was only one arty per game it would not be to bad as a single arty only ruins one persons game but the rest of the team can play correctly taking advantage of ridges, bushes and other cover. Charging forward when an opportunity exists.

When there is 2 or 3 arty everyone knows what happens if you expose yourself. Got a heavy tank on a ridge map. HaHA. To bad for you, go hide behind a rock and do nothing. 

TD's can't do anything behind the bush a medium can't. Yes you can pull back behind a bush before firing to be unspotted but so can a medium or heavy. 



bandage106 #7 Posted 04 October 2019 - 07:07 AM

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I think removing them would be too difficult. The concessions WG would have to make in removing them, well we've all seen the way in which they've had to handle premium rounds and how long that took. There is just stuff related to stats, the time investment people have put into those SPG's, the two? premium SPG's that I'm aware of. I suppose for the latter they could opt to turn the premium SPG's into non-turreted TD's but honestly I'm not sure if that would break consumer laws in any given country or not because that would vastly change the tanks in a way that would perceive them to be extremely different to the bought product. 

 

I'd like arties to be removed because they don't really incentivise the playstyle WG think they do, infact WG themselves have done enough to curb that play style of playing on the move by nerfing accuracy in patch 9.6. Arties generally tend to make people play hesitantly and make people stick to walls and cover for too long leaving a gameplay that is incredibly campy. That being said however, I think size of maps really add to that, if the maps were larger it'd really give SPG's work, the maps are tiny and there is a tonne of predictability with regards to where people will camp and where tanks will push that it makes the role of SPG easier. 



Puggsley #8 Posted 04 October 2019 - 08:53 AM

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View PostThe_Goblin_King, on 03 October 2019 - 08:16 PM, said:


You suggest that there are ways of staying safe in the game from arty. Those ways are to hide behind solid cover and not move and play an exciting game. Arty stifles fun play. And even if you are behind cover you can still get hit by the area of effect.

 

TDs are a much more manageable element of the game and don't cause the same frustration. If you get hit by a TD it is line of sight. They have limited lines of attack with the current map design. Their game play is much more like a normal sniper roll in other PVP games and is understandable and not random. As a moderator who has played a lot of games, do you hear the same level of complaints about TDs? Probably not I'd suggest.

 

What is confusing to me is WGing must have realised what a bad game mechanic it is, because they went and changed it to stunning. Which I was hopeful was going to help it make it better, but in the end I am still very frustrated by it. But they didn't remove it at that point. Or soon afterward. Why not?

 

What caused me to rant about arty this particular time, was I was driving up the hill on Malinovka (out of TD line of sight), I got lit up by a light tank, no fault of my own and no way to avoid it. And then I got hit by arty and died. I thought to myself, how is that fun? How is that good game design? In what way does that scenario make me want to play the game? Can you answer those questions for me? Because no one else has been able to.

 

But yes, you are right, the arty mechanic definitely means this game isn't for me. I just keep on forgetting that fact and coming back every 6 months or so. I think my level of frustration is that this is otherwise a great game. It's just ruined by one game mechanic.

 

What tank were you in? Arty killed you?

 

 



Zynth #9 Posted 04 October 2019 - 10:26 AM

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View PostAlita_My_Angel, on 03 October 2019 - 05:41 PM, said:

Well, they have been part of the game since quite early on, and there are numerous ways to avoid them, such as staying in covers or be constantly on the move to make yourself a harder target to it. 

 

Staying in cover only encourages me to smack you with splash damage.

 

Being constantly on the move only encourages me because I find hitting things on the move funny.

 

Arty is absolutely terrible, it is toxic, discourages fun and spreads misery. Precisely why I play it and love it so much.


 

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XiNuAiLe #10 Posted 04 October 2019 - 10:30 AM

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That is why WG takes the Awful panther away from you , toxic gameplay must be punished !

 


Zynth #11 Posted 04 October 2019 - 10:49 AM

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View PostRunBuBuRun, on 04 October 2019 - 10:30 AM, said:

That is why WG takes the Awful panther away from you , toxic gameplay must be punished !

 

No you got it wrong! I turned to the side of evil after Wargaming took everything from me!

 

The Aufklärungspanzer was the first straw. The VK 28.01 was the second. Then the Obj 430 II was the third and final straw.

 

Now Wargaming has forced my hand, so I turn to the dark side! If I cannot have fun then neither can anyone else! Muahahahahahahaha!


 

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Freaking_Monika #12 Posted 04 October 2019 - 10:53 AM

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At least he isn't claiming talking to your platoon mates using discord is cheating. Some bloke from general chat said that and it was truly an experience.


XiNuAiLe #13 Posted 04 October 2019 - 10:59 AM

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View PostZynth, on 04 October 2019 - 10:49 AM, said:

 

No you got it wrong! I turned to the side of evil after Wargaming took everything from me!

 

The Aufklärungspanzer was the first straw. The VK 28.01 was the second. Then the Obj 430 II was the third and final straw.

 

Now Wargaming has forced my hand, so I turn to the dark side! If I cannot have fun then neither can anyone else! Muahahahahahahaha!


If I offer you tribute , can you turn a blind eye to me camping in the open ? I am just a tiny humble little harmless innocent LT .


 


Zynth #14 Posted 04 October 2019 - 12:44 PM

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View PostRunBuBuRun, on 04 October 2019 - 10:59 AM, said:


I am just a tiny humble little harmless innocent LT .

 

But but, those are the most delicious!

 

I once spent 10 minutes in a game targetting some poor LT behind a rock in the north parrt of Airfield. Killed him after a while, splashed him to death, he did 0 damage.


 

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2698decimator #15 Posted 04 October 2019 - 01:18 PM

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View PostThe_Goblin_King, on 03 October 2019 - 04:59 PM, said:

Is Arty cheating?

No it's not and I use LT's a lot and arty loves them.



The_Goblin_King #16 Posted 04 October 2019 - 04:18 PM

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View PostPuggsley, on 04 October 2019 - 08:53 AM, said:

 

What tank were you in? Arty killed you?

 

 


It was the 25TP. Tier 5. I planned to grind the line.  A Grille one shot me for all my health. I was also mostly behind the windmill at the top of the Malinovka hill at the time.



The_Goblin_King #17 Posted 04 October 2019 - 04:58 PM

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View PostFreaking_Monika, on 04 October 2019 - 10:53 AM, said:

At least he isn't claiming talking to your platoon mates using discord is cheating. Some bloke from general chat said that and it was truly an experience.


Can you explain how the arty game mechanic is different from Radar hacks/Wall hacks in other games?



Several_Sins #18 Posted 09 October 2019 - 07:48 AM

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View PostThe_Goblin_King, on 04 October 2019 - 06:58 PM, said:

Can you explain how the arty game mechanic is different from Radar hacks/Wall hacks in other games?

 

Because it is a game mechanic built into the game, and not an external resource used for potential abuse of a certain mechanic.

 

52k games. Just go play Blitz with no arty.

 


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jerrek1 #19 Posted 09 October 2019 - 08:15 AM

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Stick away from tiers 6/7 if you dislike arty.
On the Asian server there is more often than not 3 arty at these tiers. When I played on the aussie server there may be 8 or 10 arty in the total que but when a game started at these tiers. 6 in the game very often. So high proportion of the arty is at these tiers. 

I don't know if its because free to play arty is cost effective at these tiers or if its because they are more powerful at these tiers. As you go up tiers the armour goes up but the arty pen does not go up much so it is more effective at these tiers. Also as a % of hit points the DPM is very high at these tiers. Being one shotted or nearly so is not uncommon. Even a heavy can only take a few near misses and lets face it a heavy is a pretty easy target. 

 



The_Goblin_King #20 Posted 09 October 2019 - 05:31 PM

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View PostSeveral_Sins, on 09 October 2019 - 07:48 AM, said:

 

Because it is a game mechanic built into the game, and not an external resource used for potential abuse of a certain mechanic.

 

52k games. Just go play Blitz with no arty.

 


Sure it's built into the game so isn't officially a cheat. But reading between the lines in what you say the game mechanic pretty much functions the same as what is considered to be cheats in other games. So following that logic - how arty functions in this game is considered to be really not fun and abuse in other games - enough that they don't allow that style of play. So I ask, why hasn't WGing removed arty from the game? Or at least limited it to one arty per match? Or done anything with it so their game is more fun to play. Why do they persist with this game mechanic that turns so many people off their game?







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