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Enticing more ANZ clans to participate in Advances


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Stewy_The_Ham #1 Posted 08 October 2019 - 10:17 AM

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It's no secret that Advances on ANZ have so much less clans participating than on HK. Due to the population numbers, the fact that there is around 5x more on HK is logical. However, the fact of the matter still stands. The issue that I see with this, is that for any real new clans who make the brave attempt at trying to do advances for the first time, get slapped with DADDY, EYRIE, 1AR and other clans with years of experience in advances.

Fighting higher skilled clans is part of the learning curve, definitely. The first 5 matches I called went as followed. YETI, TEAL, YETI, TEAL, DADDY. This was around 5 months when the situation was a-lot worse. Like, there was probably 4 clans actually trying every night, and from a 1AR Point of view, getting smashed at 6:00 by TEAL, then getting YETI the next, then back to TEAL was hard not only for myself as a new caller, but for the players, who were losing credits fast for extremely little reason. The fact that there was very little reason towards it was the part that made it tough.

My point is, I believe WG Asia need to make an incentive for inactive clans to start playing tier 10 advances. Recently HMNZ made an effort to start playing, and so much respect to them, they certainly aren't the most experienced players, but the fact they tried and are actively trying to fill a team is incredible. We need more clans doing this. Not only does it give more variety, but the lower tier clans have more chance of fighting opponents at their level. Currently the only reward for playing advances on weekdays/saturdays is boxes, which, for clans new to the stronghold scene is quite small

My idea, was that by doing advances gold gets put into the clan kitty, based off of the same stuff that calculates boxes. 
For example, if you were to citadel a clam, your clan would receive 150 gold into the clan kitty, possibly 100 gold for a win, and around 20 for a loss. Amongst 15 people, that sums up to around 10 gold per player for citadel, 6 for a win, and 1 for a loss. If the clan plays Advances every hour every day of the week, and win 50% of their matches, the clan kitty will earn around 1000 gold (Not counting if they citadel a-few times). Thats around 80 gold per player in a week.

For big clans, this may not seem like much, but from personal experience when I ran a clan and did clan wars for the first time, reaching 300 gold in the clan kitty for everyone excited for a payout, however small it was. 

Would like to know what others opinions are on the topic, and this idea specifically 
 

HoPeY_ #2 Posted 08 October 2019 - 10:32 AM

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Perhaps for once a participation medal just for the ANZ server. How about something really good say a Type 59 (as an example) that you count down a mission to 50 advances to get.

Stewy_The_Ham #3 Posted 08 October 2019 - 11:02 AM

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View PostHoPeY_, on 08 October 2019 - 10:32 AM, said:

Perhaps for once a participation medal just for the ANZ server. How about something really good say a Type 59 (as an example) that you count down a mission to 50 advances to get.


I'm completely against participation medals. Also, this would be super super easy to rig. Those accounts that plagued team battles? Imagine a clan of them, farming 50 battles, getting a type 59. Easy way to sell accounts for money. If they wanted to give a free tank, maybe a tier 5 or below (AT MOST) that is iconic to Australia/NZ (AELT, AC3 Thunderbolt, schofield tank). 

Another flaw would be Asian clans would just come over to ANZ. That's not the point, we want the ANZ community to stand up and do advances. You go into a tier 8/9 battle on ANZ and there is around 10 people each match who are clan-less. There should be reason to join a clan. As it stands, the argument for joining is that there is no loss in joining one. For 90% of clans, there is no reason to be in one. Make there be a reason to advances Without giving away rare vehicles for free



Twit_ #4 Posted 08 October 2019 - 11:06 AM

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View PostIMC_Stewy, on 08 October 2019 - 10:17 AM, said:

It's no secret that Advances on ANZ have so much less clans participating than on HK. Due to the population numbers, the fact that there is around 5x more on HK is logical. However, the fact of the matter still stands. The issue that I see with this, is that for any real new clans who make the brave attempt at trying to do advances for the first time, get slapped with DADDY, EYRIE, 1AR and other clans with years of experience in advances.

My point is, I believe WG Asia need to make an incentive for inactive clans to start playing tier 10 advances. Recently HMNZ made an effort to start playing, and so much respect to them, they certainly aren't the most experienced players, but the fact they tried and are actively trying to fill a team is incredible. We need more clans doing this. Not only does it give more variety, but the lower tier clans have more chance of fighting opponents at their level. Currently the only reward for playing advances on weekdays/saturdays is boxes, which, for clans new to the stronghold scene is quite small

My idea, was that by doing advances gold gets put into the clan kitty, based off of the same stuff that calculates boxes. 
For example, if you were to citadel a clam, your clan would receive 150 gold into the clan kitty, possibly 100 gold for a win, and around 20 for a loss. Amongst 15 people, that sums up to around 10 gold per player for citadel, 6 for a win, and 1 for a loss. If the clan plays Advances every hour every day of the week, and win 50% of their matches, the clan kitty will earn around 1000 gold (Not counting if they citadel a-few times). Thats around 80 gold per player in a week.
 

 

I have spoken to matteo about the need for greater incentive to play clan wars on the global map and advances, but they are limited by what HQ will do for them. There will be a consideration for the increase in reward for playing if there are more clans playing in the first place.

Block Quote

 [WG]Matteo09/27/2019

if apac clans don't want to play [clan wars] it's hard to give rewards
it is indeed

and hq clearly stated that it will depend on participation
 

 

And it comes back to what people have been saying for a long time, nobody is wanting to play advances nightly, or every second night in the early timezone save for 2-3 clans. If all the anz clans would be playing advances as much as they do on Sunday then we would not be having a problem or a concentrated few playing advances. If the argument for not playing is  "oh we only get teal or yeti, and even if we did we are only one clan, it won't make a difference" ; that is a terrible argument as nothing will change, all the clans in anz need to come together and just give it a go.

 

If all the anz clans play together, then you would see less teal/yeti as your opponents and more clans at your skill level and we can all have a good cw advance scene

 


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Stewy_The_Ham #5 Posted 08 October 2019 - 11:12 AM

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View PostTwit_, on 08 October 2019 - 11:06 AM, said:

 

I have spoken to matteo about the need for greater incentive to play clan wars on the global map and advances, but they are limited by what HQ will do for them. There will be a consideration for the increase in reward for playing if there are more clans playing in the first place.

 

And it comes back to what people have been saying for a long time, nobody is wanting to play advances nightly, or every second night in the early timezone save for 2-3 clans. If all the anz clans would be playing advances as much as they do on Sunday then we would not be having a problem or a concentrated few playing advances. If the argument for not playing is  "oh we only get teal or yeti, and even if we did we are only one clan, it won't make a difference" ; that is a terrible argument as nothing will change, all the clans in anz need to come together and just give it a go.

 

If all the anz clans play together, then you would see less teal/yeti as your opponents and more clans at your skill level and we can all have a good cw advance scene

 



We have no problem with fighting TEAL or YETI, sure, it's not great for confidence but you learn a-lot from how they play. It's like the people that complain about ANZ queue times. If everyone in Australia who thought that, decided to queue up in ANZ there would be no queue time problems in the first place. 



HoPeY_ #6 Posted 08 October 2019 - 11:17 AM

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View PostIMC_Stewy, on 08 October 2019 - 11:02 AM, said:


I'm completely against participation medals. Also, this would be super super easy to rig. Those accounts that plagued team battles? Imagine a clan of them, farming 50 battles, getting a type 59. Easy way to sell accounts for money. If they wanted to give a free tank, maybe a tier 5 or below (AT MOST) that is iconic to Australia/NZ (AELT, AC3 Thunderbolt, schofield tank). 

Another flaw would be Asian clans would just come over to ANZ. That's not the point, we want the ANZ community to stand up and do advances. You go into a tier 8/9 battle on ANZ and there is around 10 people each match who are clan-less. There should be reason to join a clan. As it stands, the argument for joining is that there is no loss in joining one. For 90% of clans, there is no reason to be in one. Make there be a reason to advances Without giving away rare vehicles for free

 

Well 300 gold aint bringing no one back into this. More than enough rigging going on ATM ie 279e. What's a bit more if it encourages participation.



Stewy_The_Ham #7 Posted 08 October 2019 - 11:22 AM

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View PostHoPeY_, on 08 October 2019 - 11:17 AM, said:

 

Well 300 gold aint bringing no one back into this. More than enough rigging going on ATM ie 279e. What's a bit more if it encourages participation.



Like I said, for new players earning 300 gold is more than enough. You have 100,000 battles, and Id imagine have played a tonnage of clan wars and strongholds. Put yourself into the shoes of a player who has just unlocked his first tier 10, and is mostly free to play. 300 gold a week, if he joins an average clan, is more than enough.



HoPeY_ #8 Posted 08 October 2019 - 11:26 AM

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View PostIMC_Stewy, on 08 October 2019 - 11:22 AM, said:



Like I said, for new players earning 300 gold is more than enough. You have 100,000 battles, and Id imagine have played a tonnage of clan wars and strongholds. Put yourself into the shoes of a player who has just unlocked his first tier 10, and is mostly free to play. 300 gold a week, if he joins an average clan, is more than enough.

 

I Disagree. A high proportion of players I meet are older and 300 gold means nothing to them so offers zero incentive. Ask your own team.



Stewy_The_Ham #9 Posted 08 October 2019 - 11:31 AM

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View PostHoPeY_, on 08 October 2019 - 11:26 AM, said:

 

I Disagree. A high proportion of players I meet are older and 300 gold means nothing to them so offers zero incentive. Ask your own team.

This whole discussion came off of a chat I had with a number of players in discord. They all agree that 300-500 gold per week for an average clan is fair and isnt just handing out stuff for simply participating. Wargames for us gives off around 400 gold a week as it is, so on top of that, it does end up being a fair amount. Once again, the players who dont need that sort of gold are already in clans



HoPeY_ #10 Posted 08 October 2019 - 11:57 AM

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But this is not aimed at individuals I wouldn't think. It's aimed at Clans. Plenty of them. They need to feel like advances are worth it.

 

Gold is nice but most older guys care little about it. Younger ones get excited though.

 

Maybe mission thing I mentioned needs to be linked to kills or damage or some such. If well thought out given the lack of teams involved it would be easy to keep an eye on and report rigging anyway.


Edited by HoPeY_, 08 October 2019 - 12:01 PM.


Stewy_The_Ham #11 Posted 08 October 2019 - 12:05 PM

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View PostHoPeY_, on 08 October 2019 - 11:57 AM, said:

But this is not aimed at individuals I wouldn't think. It's aimed at Clans. Plenty of them. They need to feel like advances are worth it.

 

Gold is nice but most older guys care little about it. Younger ones get excited though.

 

Maybe mission thing I mentioned needs to be linked to kills or damage or some such. If well thought out given the lack of teams involved it would be easy to keep an eye on and report rigging anyway.



I was more thinking, giving individuals incentives to JOIN clans or CREATE them to do advances, would create more activity. There is plenty of clans with enough players, but the problem mainly lies in that those players cannot be bothered getting online or starting advances in the first place. I can name a number of clans like this



HoPeY_ #12 Posted 08 October 2019 - 12:08 PM

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That's a clan thing though, spreading the news etc. Clans drive this type of activity, a command structure that spreads news. Clans seek and recruit people.

 

Look at me from a few months back. Prodded to try advances, sort info and got the clan I was in at the time involved. All clan related.


Edited by HoPeY_, 08 October 2019 - 12:10 PM.


Napalmer #13 Posted 08 October 2019 - 12:29 PM

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View PostHoPeY_, on 08 October 2019 - 12:32 PM, said:

Perhaps for once a participation medal just for the ANZ server. How about something really good say a Type 59 (as an example) that you count down a mission to 50 advances to get.

 

A Type 59? You're joking.

Maybe a tier 6/7 premium, but a Type is way too much.

 

The way old SH worked was if you wanted the good boosters you had to accept that clans would attack you and you MUST turn up to defend them otherwise you never progress.

Like it or not, this meant people turned up, got experience and didn't need bribery. Those who put in the hard work and won got a high level stronghold. Those who didn't, could live with a mid-level stronghold if they chose.

 

Nowadays, we get clans taking one whiff of a high level clan in the MM, and run away. This causes a domino effect as there's less clans in the MM overall. Those that do fight the high-level clan don't take it seriously, and then wonder why they get faced against 'meme strats'. An incentive would be alright, but an attitude adjustment is really what's needed.

 

The other thing that would entice more ANZ Clans to participate is the removal of ELO/PR based MM. Not exactly exciting stuff when you fight GAZEL at least once every rotation and they just camp the entire match.

Even with the old tier 6 Skirmishes, you never knew who you would get. Might be KELLY, might be CROWN. It kept it fresh and exciting, and was worth celebrating when you got that win against a high level clan.

Now, new clans are protected more than ever and still whine when they get someone skilled.


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IMC_Jezza #14 Posted 08 October 2019 - 01:17 PM

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As per all of the above,

 

Yeah the wargames on a Sunday, all things going reasonably, a few hundred gold isn't too bad..... It is a shame there aren't more clans involved though.  I think one of the things alot of folks out there don't get is the boosters you can set off, especially with a high tier stronghold.  Hell the credit boost and XP boosts really add up.  For instance, we're at level 9 on our stronghold, after many years of neglect, along with a couple of other buildings.....  So from my perspective from a clan point of view - the boxes alone are worth it.

 

Playing Teal/Yeti/Atlus/Steam  sure, it wouldn't be our first pick, that's for sure..... But rather than running meme strats, we've at least tried to see how our strats and callers stack-up... It's hard work, especially on the callers, but we try to keep it light hearted enough, but also have a good look at their movements through the game to learn from; hey we get a laugh out of it when the meme strats are used against us, and hell, might even jag a "win".

 

As far as incentives go to boost clan participation, I dunno, I guess that would be great to hear from other clannies to see what would float their boat..... But a type-59 (or equivalent) yeah mate, nah......  As said, they would simply be rigged, sold off in accounts, and the players would never be seen again once the "mission" was finished.   

 

For me, I still get a buzz out of Cee-Dubs, Advances and the like, without it consuming me at the same time, and enjoy the banters across and within clans....  There's always something to learn - but sheesh, would love to see a few more clans out there advancing, it's a great training ground, with the capacity to at least spend boxes on clan boosters which aids people on the grind.....



HoPeY_ #15 Posted 08 October 2019 - 01:22 PM

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View PostNapalmer, on 08 October 2019 - 12:29 PM, said:

 

A Type 59? You're joking.

Maybe a tier 6/7 premium, but a Type is way too much.

 

Want people involved give a suitable reward. Once they here, maybe they will stay. A tier 6 or 7 Prem aint going to do it.

 

The way old SH worked was if you wanted the good boosters you had to accept that clans would attack you and you MUST turn up to defend them otherwise you never progress.

Like it or not, this meant people turned up, got experience and didn't need bribery. Those who put in the hard work and won got a high level stronghold. Those who didn't, could live with a mid-level stronghold if they chose.

 

Umm, BS. In DETOX we tried it once, had zero understanding, lost our boxes and NEVER came back. This is not good to get clans involved and didn't.

 

Nowadays, we get clans taking one whiff of a high level clan in the MM, and run away. This causes a domino effect as there's less clans in the MM overall. Those that do fight the high-level clan don't take it seriously, and then wonder why they get faced against 'meme strats'. An incentive would be alright, but an attitude adjustment is really what's needed.

 

Our Attitude is fine. It's a game. Perhaps you could realise that you are facing lesser opponents and give them a chance?

 

The other thing that would entice more ANZ Clans to participate is the removal of ELO/PR based MM. Not exactly exciting stuff when you fight GAZEL at least once every rotation and they just camp the entire match.

 

So you'd sooner romper stomp lesser clans? where's the learning in that for you. Get Gud.

 

Even with the old tier 6 Skirmishes, you never knew who you would get. Might be KELLY, might be CROWN. It kept it fresh and exciting, and was worth celebrating when you got that win against a high level clan.

Now, new clans are protected more than ever and still whine when they get someone skilled.

 

Whine? Yeah such a joy to be stomped and have guys lose 100K a battle. Get Gud? ok, give us your callers and purple carriers plus the Campaign tanks and we'll suddenly "Get Gud".

 

ATM there is near zero activity from the Social clans that are new to this. Surprisingly facing a bunch of Campaign reward tanks probably not helping. I'd hate to be involved on the HK server with 279e spam a plenty from people who have simply brought them.

 



HoPeY_ #16 Posted 08 October 2019 - 01:30 PM

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Seriously guys, trying to tempt people into a mode like this for like $1 in prizes?

 

Stand by for the rush....



jumphonner #17 Posted 08 October 2019 - 01:42 PM

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I play Advances to drive my T10 tanks at a good ping as part of a, mostly, harmonious team.

 

As I have all the T10's bar the Manticore, I only wish that more of my tanks were used rather than the same old meta tanks.

 

I understand Hopey's angst.

 

When you are at the bottom of the food chain, why would I show up if I am going to be beaten 9 times out of 10?

 

I know I dont  exactly enjoy it when we get stomped by Yeti, Teal et al, but we get in, roll up our shirt sleeves and give it a red hot go. It makes the wins over those guys even more sweet.

 

I dont believe that there is a simple answer. Different players are motivated by different things.

 

A  Type 59 for showing up for 50 games? Yeah, nah.

 

 


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HoPeY_ #18 Posted 08 October 2019 - 02:00 PM

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View Postjumphonner, on 08 October 2019 - 01:42 PM, said:

A  Type 59 for showing up for 50 games? Yeah, nah.

 

 

 

You guys are already doing Advances. Think how to entice new people into it. The 59 and requirements is just an example. They aint jumping into this for $1 worth of gold...


Edited by HoPeY_, 08 October 2019 - 02:01 PM.


jumphonner #19 Posted 08 October 2019 - 02:11 PM

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View PostHoPeY_, on 08 October 2019 - 04:00 PM, said:

 

You guys are already doing Advances. Think how to entice new people into it. The 59 and requirements is just an example. They aint jumping into this for $1 worth of gold...

 

Agree.

 

Are you suggesting a Type 59 for everyone who does 50 Advances or something along the lines of do 50 Advances in a 3 month period and you go into the the draw for a Type 59?


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HoPeY_ #20 Posted 08 October 2019 - 02:31 PM

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Could be 100 tank kills or 1,000.. Many options to think about. Maybe have rewards in a structured way to pick up teams cheating there way though, 10K kills final prize of a rare tank.

 

Many, many options.

 

Really want people involved? Tier 10 Campaign tank of your choice at the end of a hell marathon.


Edited by HoPeY_, 08 October 2019 - 02:33 PM.





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