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Ranked Battles: Replace Chevrons with the Frontline ranking system..


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Vindictus_Maximus #1 Posted 10 November 2019 - 08:36 PM

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I think the Frontline ranking system is the fairest system in the game., as you are fairly rewarded on your performance regardless of your teammates efforts. The problem with the Chevron system is that you are in many ways subject to luck in terms of the teams you get. And as a result you dont get a fair representation of how well a player has actually played.

 

If the system was similar to the Frontline ranking system, the great players would get lots of Generals and Majors regardless of the win or loss, the mediocre players would get lots of Sergeants an Lieutenants, regardless of the win or loss. Most importantly the weak players would still be advancing, still have a reason to grind on because at least they would still be progressing.

 

Still have the Gold/Silver/Bronze League, calculated on rank performance.

 

I had a 8 game session the other night that followed:

 

Battle1 - Ranked1 (Loss)   +1 chevron

Battle2 - Ranked7 (Loss)  -1 chevron

Battle3 - Ranked10 (Win) +1 chevron

Battle4 - Ranked6 (Loss)  -1 chevron

Battle5 - Ranked3 ( Loss) no change

Battle6 - Ranked8 (Loss) -1 chevron

Battle 7 Ranked6 (Win) +1 chevron

Battle 8 Ranked 8 (Loss) -1 chevron

 

So I played 2 hours, did not do great but not bad either averaging about rank6 over the night, but still going backwards because I lost 6 out of 8 games. Change that to the Frontline Ranking system and at least I would have made some progress.

 

I understand that you have good nights and bad nights in this game, overall I have done OK in the games I have played, not great, not bad.

GwIDtbW.jpg

 

But I dont want to play this mode now, I will take my 500 bonds and end it there,  because I dont want to risk ruining my night again getting shafted with a losing streak. It is too annoying, life is too short, I can only imaging how discouraging it is for players that are worse than me. At least with Steel Hunter I was are not team reliant, I breezed through that mode no problems but still despised the Chevron system in that mode too.

 

If you truly want a a mode that sorts out the goods form the bads, you cannot use a system where you are punished/rewarded based on the win or loss roulette wheel. It HAS to based on performance IMO.

 

Wargaming please consider replacing the Chevron system, it will be less toxic and annoying, and you will enjoy far more participation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #2 Posted 10 November 2019 - 10:07 PM

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Here's news for you: I checked how much efficiency is needed to get bronze league last season, turns out even the bottommost of bronze league requires an efficiency of at least 50%. Wonder why.


Edited by Aoyama_Blue_Mountain, 10 November 2019 - 10:09 PM.

How to solve all problems once and for all with just 3 lines of code:

 

if ( battle_type = CW | RB | SH ) {

mod_folder.disable

}


Ezz #3 Posted 10 November 2019 - 10:48 PM

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It's a competitive mode so of course winning needs to be key to progression.

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NameWasStolenStresslevel #4 Posted Yesterday, 03:56 AM

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i cant play this game anymore. Too much problem for constant dropping fun. Ranked battle seemed slightly better but still ending too fast. I got to division 3 but cant play this game anymore and also ll be working night shift the whole week. Ill try to finish division 3 so i get the gold and bonds and then get the gold and bond from frontlines too and then unistall the game. Its completly waste of time to be playing a fraud.

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Vindictus_Maximus #5 Posted Yesterday, 09:25 AM

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View PostEzz, on 10 November 2019 - 10:48 PM, said:

It's a competitive mode so of course winning needs to be key to progression.

 

It is a Ranked competition, with the purpose of sorting out the best and worst players into different leagues.

 

Next time you have a battle, compare the performance of the second best player on the losing team (who gets 0 chevrons even though he played really well) to the 10th best player in the winning team (who gets 1 chevron for a mediocre performance) That is not a system where the great players are rewarded for great play.

 

The Frontline system DOES reward great play and punishes weak play. Regardless of if you win or lose. If you want a true, legit, Ranked Battles system sorting out the goods from the bads, you need a system that rewards great players regardless of the result.

 

Also, and this is just as important, you need a system where the weak players are incentivized to persist in the mode. Under the Frontline ranking system, the great players will breeze through to the Gold League without having to spend too much time playing, while the weak players will be able to grind their way to the Bronze League but will have to play 5-6 hours a night to get there. 

 

Its a win/win, I just hope someone from Wargaming read this idea and seriously consider it. The Frontline Ranking system was a brilliant idea and one of the reasons that Frontline is so popular and non-toxic, they should just employ that system across the board.

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Vindictus_Maximus, Yesterday, 09:26 AM.


Ezz #6 Posted Yesterday, 09:45 AM

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It's a system that rewards players that win. Unless you're trying to argue that winning isn't a sign of good players, then i'm not sure your point. If you don't prioritise winning in the rewards then the farming would just get worse.

 

Further if what you're doing gets you good xp on a losing team a lot, then clearly what you are doing isn't working.


Edited by Ezz, Yesterday, 10:03 AM.

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Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #7 Posted Yesterday, 09:53 AM

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Maybe he played really well

 

But did he play to win

 

The entry point to bronze is 50.something, hence as long as your contribution is positive, given enough battles you will eventually reach it. Heck I reached it while playing lots of EBR, I get single Chevron from spotting over 6k, I get lots of bottom list from early rushes. But I still reached it in the end.

 

And my average damage is 1.4k according to global ranked statistics which should be nearly accurate since this is the first time I seriously played RB. On a winrate of 49% but hey that's the expected result from SBMM.


Edited by Aoyama_Blue_Mountain, Yesterday, 10:00 AM.

How to solve all problems once and for all with just 3 lines of code:

 

if ( battle_type = CW | RB | SH ) {

mod_folder.disable

}


FeeTFooD #8 Posted Yesterday, 10:09 AM

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I’m not trying to be rude, but is it possible that you’re not as good as you perceive yourself to be? Is it possible that your decision making is leading to less wins?

I’m by no means a great player. These days I’d say I’m barely above average. But I know my limits. Maybe you’re just finding yours?

kilig ako


Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #9 Posted Yesterday, 10:42 AM

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The key to getting chev is simply being better than the rest of your team. Of course what is "good" is always something that is debated but that deserves its own topic.

 

In another thread, I posted an anecdote of how a 5k spotting LT got top XP in a losing team while lower half XP in a winning team. Reward is one chev in either case.

 

People find that when they lose, they are usually at the top of the team. This makes sense from a statistics point of view. If everyone in your team is worse than you, then that team is more likely going to lose compared to a team where everybody is better than you. Hence a 5k scout gets top in a loser team yet bottom half in a winner team. He is rewarded the same for his efforts.

 

But u may find that it is still easier to get chev while on the winning team - Using the above scout example, it is more likely the scout would have gotten a retain on a loss vs a chev on a win. This goes back to the question of what is "good". Ultimately, winning needs to be rewarded. Maybe a more aggressive but earlier dying scout scored more early advantage and contributed more to winning than a late cleanup scout. This is what XP does not take into consideration. But winning does.

 

You may end up in a winning team or losing team mostly due to luck. But the key is the retain on loss and double on win, which are done by being better than the players on your team. If you are losing due to bad teammates, you should be getting some retains, at least over a large number of battles. If you are winning due to you, you should be getting double chev once in a while. If you are playing to farm chev but not to win, you are punished with more losses which counters the effect.

 

And eventually you rise to a point where the rest of the team is better than you and you can't get those doubles and retains and get stuck. But this is exactly the point of ranked battle.

 

We already have FL and AE Phase 1 for rewarding people who just hurr-durr for 10 weeks, don't do that for RB please.

 

Add: Also I am finding great irony and humor from this statement

 

"Also, and this is just as important, you need a system where the weak players are incentivized to persist in the mode."

 

*Looks at people saying they are quitting* Erm, well...


Edited by Aoyama_Blue_Mountain, Yesterday, 11:06 AM.

How to solve all problems once and for all with just 3 lines of code:

 

if ( battle_type = CW | RB | SH ) {

mod_folder.disable

}


Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #10 Posted Yesterday, 11:53 AM

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Block Quote

 Most importantly the weak players would still be advancing, still have a reason to grind on because at least they would still be progressing.

 

There *is* reward just for grinding... At around 0.133 chev per battle on average if battle result is completely random and everyone has the same skill. (And yes the actual number is higher thanks to x2 and shields thanks for pointing that out even though you have neither by the second half of div 1)

 

Which gives us 750 battles to reach league and ~1160 battles to get a tank, which is a reasonably short grind compared to FL.

 

Of course this value will depend on skill because this is ranked battle but at least it is safe to say that 50% of random players who played 1160 games randomly will see the tank. Hard luck if you are the bottom half but that just means more battles as the population slowly moves forward.


How to solve all problems once and for all with just 3 lines of code:

 

if ( battle_type = CW | RB | SH ) {

mod_folder.disable

}


Puggsley #11 Posted Yesterday, 12:29 PM

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View PostAoyama_Blue_Mountain, on 11 November 2019 - 01:53 PM, said:

And yes the actual number is higher thanks to x2 and shields thanks for pointing that out even though you have neither by the second half of div 1

 

The relevance of basic maths and logic is not correlated to progress in RB.



Ezz #12 Posted Yesterday, 12:37 PM

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View PostPuggsley, on 11 November 2019 - 02:29 PM, said:

 

The relevance of basic maths and logic is not correlated to progress in RB.

D-K appears better correlated.


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Vindictus_Maximus #13 Posted Yesterday, 07:55 PM

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View PostEzz, on 11 November 2019 - 09:45 AM, said:

It's a system that rewards players that win. Unless you're trying to argue that winning isn't a sign of good players, then i'm not sure your point

 

The Chevron system is a system that often rewards mediocre performing players that happen to be on the winning team, and often punishes high performing players that happen to be on the losing team. Unlike Frontlines system that rewards the skilled players in every game regardless of the result.

 

That is the whole point of the thread Ezz, it is pretty straightforward. What would you prefer? A system that rewards skilled players every game? Or a system that rewards mediocre players and punishes good players every game.

 

 

 

 



Ezz #14 Posted Yesterday, 07:57 PM

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View PostVindictus_Maximus, on 11 November 2019 - 09:55 PM, said:

 

The Chevron system is a system that often rewards mediocre performing players that happen to be on the winning team, and often punishes high performing players that happen to be on the losing team. Unlike Frontlines system that rewards the skilled players in every game regardless of the result.

 

That is the whole point of the thread Ezz, it is pretty straightforward. What would you prefer? A system that rewards skilled players every game? Or a system that rewards mediocre players and punishes good players every game.

Good players win. Mediocre players do well on a losing side. It's pretty straight forward.


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Vindictus_Maximus #15 Posted Yesterday, 07:59 PM

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View PostAoyama_Blue_Mountain, on 11 November 2019 - 11:53 AM, said:

Which gives us 750 battles to reach league and ~1160 battles to get a tank, which is a reasonably short grind compared to FL.

 

That is pretty funny. Came across this thread in Reddit tonight that gave me a laugh.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldofTanks/comments/dufbyv/after_70_games_still_no_movement/

 

Best quote regarding Ranked  "The only way to win is to not play."

 



Vindictus_Maximus #16 Posted Yesterday, 08:00 PM

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View PostEzz, on 11 November 2019 - 07:57 PM, said:

Good players win. Mediocre players do well on a losing side. It's pretty straight forward.

 

Unfortunately in Ranked, good players also lose. 50% of them to be exact. 50% of the time



Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #17 Posted Yesterday, 08:13 PM

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People still thinking ranking on a losing team is a reflection of skill

How to solve all problems once and for all with just 3 lines of code:

 

if ( battle_type = CW | RB | SH ) {

mod_folder.disable

}


Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #18 Posted Yesterday, 08:15 PM

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View PostVindictus_Maximus, on 11 November 2019 - 07:59 PM, said:

 

That is pretty funny. Came across this thread in Reddit tonight that gave me a laugh.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldofTanks/comments/dufbyv/after_70_games_still_no_movement/

 

Best quote regarding Ranked  "The only way to win is to not play."

 

 

View PostVindictus_Maximus, on 11 November 2019 - 08:00 PM, said:

 

Unfortunately in Ranked, good players also lose. 50% of them to be exact. 50% of the time

 

I reached league after 450 battles with a winrate of 49%

 

Maybe either win more or chevron more


How to solve all problems once and for all with just 3 lines of code:

 

if ( battle_type = CW | RB | SH ) {

mod_folder.disable

}


Ezz #19 Posted Yesterday, 08:39 PM

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View PostVindictus_Maximus, on 11 November 2019 - 10:00 PM, said:

 

Unfortunately in Ranked, good players also lose. 50% of them to be exact. 50% of the time

Not really. That assumes everyone achieves a 50% win rate. You seem to be in denial that ability transfers to ranked.


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Vindictus_Maximus #20 Posted Yesterday, 08:45 PM

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View PostAoyama_Blue_Mountain, on 11 November 2019 - 08:15 PM, said:

I reached league after 450 battles with a winrate of 49%

 

Maybe either win more or chevron more

 

Actually these were my final two battles in ranked, and I came here and started this thread straight after

 

CK6ltyC.jpgJeZKZhn.jpg

dKeo3ES.jpg

 

After those battles that was enough. Even though I finished top3 and happened to be on the winning team. The game on Westfield , the random team I happened to be allocated  dominated and won the hill giving us total map control. The game on Murovanka I was up against a turkey team that all flooded to the top left of the map and the team I was randomly allocated picked them apart like the pussies they were.

 

I did not feel like a 'winner' In fact these were the final straws for me because if luck was against me I could have been me stuck with those horrible teams we defeated. If I clicked 'Battle" again, maybe I would get stuck with them, maybe for another horrible losing streak.

 

No, this mode is horribly flawed. Random battles grinding tanks or credits is one thing, even if you get horrible teams you can still make credits, earn XP.

 

But not Ranked Battles, if you are unlucky with your teams, you go backwards. The mode is broken because of this, so many players quit this mode after a few nights. hopefully Wargaming makes changes because I would like to play Ranked Battles again. 


 

 

 


Edited by Vindictus_Maximus, Yesterday, 08:47 PM.





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