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Why WTR is a terrible metric


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Puggsley #41 Posted 03 December 2019 - 08:53 AM

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View PostTotallyNotAReroll, on 03 December 2019 - 10:50 AM, said:

Winning is 100% luck based. What the hell is WN8 and WTR sounds really interesting. 
 

If a coin is flipped once, it could be head or tails. I’d flipped twice, the odds of it landing on the same face are 2:1. Three times, 4:1. Unless there is an outside influence the coin should land on equal faces roughly the same number of times. These players who think they’re really good are just really lucky and going on odds that are literally millions to one in order to win 60% of their battles. 

haha, yet they can pull off those win rates over and over and over. Sure sounds like luck!



Dieselnuts #42 Posted 03 December 2019 - 09:03 AM

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It's weird though how the good players always seem to be lucky, and the poor bad players get all the bad luck.

TotallyNotAReroll #43 Posted 03 December 2019 - 09:17 AM

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View PostDieselnuts, on 03 December 2019 - 01:03 AM, said:

It's weird though how the good players always seem to be lucky, and the poor bad players get all the bad luck.

It is very weird. It’s as if paying attention to the mini-map, conserving HP, exploiting the vision mechanics, picking targets wisely and not suicide scouting isn’t luck. 
 

But it’s all luck.  Good players just get lucky more often. 



Puggsley #44 Posted 03 December 2019 - 09:19 AM

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Diesel you just don't get it. 

 

All that learning mechanics, learning weakspots, knowledge of maps, map awareness, good crew and tank set-up is just luck.  



Vindictus_Maximus #45 Posted 03 December 2019 - 09:29 AM

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View PostPuggsley, on 03 December 2019 - 08:52 AM, said:

But when you play higher tiers (6+) against players who generally understand mechanics, your performance plummets. 

 

I am just mediocre player just like you Puggsley, our stats in any given tank will be similar. And equally mediocre. I am comfortable with being mediocre, I hope you are too.

 

That is not the point of the thread though! Try to stay on topic. This is about the merits of the soon-to-arrive WTR system

 

https://worldoftanks...ersonal-rating/

 

Currently, the Personal Rating calculates the total progress of an account rather than evaluating player performance, which makes for rigid stats that say little of your opponents or personal efficiency. The more battles you’ve been through, the higher your rating.

 

In regards to stat padding. The new WTR ends that so you should be happy right?

 

Vehicle-specific ratings: The rating is calculated for each tank separately, and these vehicle-specific scores are then used to assess a player’s overall performance. After you select a tank, the system ranks performance indicators according to their relevance for this particular vehicle.

 

The comparison between the player and server values is multiplied by importance coefficients for flexibility and statistics (~0.25 and ~0.75, respectively); then they get totaled. This way, the better the player’s performance in a vehicle compared to the performance of all other players in the same vehicle, the higher the value of the second parameter for this player.

 

Averaging out values to provide a fair evaluation: Average and above average values differ a lot across vehicles, which could open a way to exploit the system. We devised a special mathematical model to stop it from happening. It balances vehicle ratings, making it virtually impossible to get extremely high ratings in vehicles with moderate average values, and vice versa.

 

If you read section 4 it outlines the forumula, including tier coefficients

 

When determining the coefficient, the system considers overall player performance rather than the number of battles fought.

This way, top positions in the total rating will be taken by players who demonstrate a great performance in a large number of high-tier vehicles.

 

So, spamming battles in the Luchs definitely helps with all the useless stats like winrate, WN8, and the current Personal rating. But playing the Luchs will likely hurt your stats with the WTR rating.

 

WTR make you happy now?

 

 

 



Puggsley #46 Posted 03 December 2019 - 09:40 AM

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Keep trying to justify a metric which only measures a portion of how you perform.

 

I guess failing a reroll makes you get creative to justify why you start from scratch again.

 

I'll ignore WTR just like I totally ignored PR.

 


Edited by Puggsley, 03 December 2019 - 09:43 AM.


_stevethegecko_ #47 Posted 03 December 2019 - 09:49 AM

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View PostPuggsley, on 03 December 2019 - 12:40 PM, said:

Keep trying to justify a metric which only measures a portion of how you perform.

 

I guess failing a reroll makes you get creative to justify why you start from scratch again.

 

I'll ignore WTR just like I totally ignored PR.

 


Same. I prefer win% over everything else because it measures how often you win. I’m mostly a solo player and on a good day I can manage 60%. WN8 is pretty but I’d rather be winning more often than farming. Grinding MoE on the 3/4 got me deep purple on a daily basis because the expected damage is so low and in one session I managed to earn 2 MoE and bring my win% up from 40ish% to 52% overall. My overall damage per game also went from around 300 to over 600. 
 

I guess I just got really lucky. 


Edited by FeeTFooD, 03 December 2019 - 09:49 AM.

kilig ako


Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #48 Posted 03 December 2019 - 10:08 AM

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Winning is not all luck

 

Just 80% luck


"oNlY tOxIc PlAyErS bLaMe ThE tEaM fOr LoSiNg"

 

Still waiting for techtree-based CW


Puggsley #49 Posted 03 December 2019 - 10:22 AM

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Agree Feet, I will always take a win over getting more damage, every single time.

 

If I have helped my team win I don't really care about the impact on any other stat. 

 

 

 



_stevethegecko_ #50 Posted 03 December 2019 - 10:29 AM

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My low survival rate in some tanks is due to being an absolute moron when I started playing, but overall it’s my risk taking behaviour. I’m an enabler and I take stupid risks sometimes. My survival rate would be higher if I was a little more conservative but at the same time I don’t know if I’d win more often.

I should play to survive a win and die on a loss. If you survive a loss it better be because you didn’t make it back to reset your base on time

kilig ako


Vindictus_Maximus #51 Posted 03 December 2019 - 05:43 PM

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View PostPuggsley, on 03 December 2019 - 09:40 AM, said:

 I guess failing a reroll makes you get creative to justify why you start from scratch again.

 

 

You a little triggered there Puggsley ?  If you dont care about stats, then why are you even in this thread getting all passive-aggressive over rerolls and stat padders and seal clubbers?

 

Anyway if you want to yolo on behalf of a bunch of guys that you don't know, with negligible impact on the win or loss anyway, then knock yourself out.

 

And maybe start a 'I don't care about stats' thread so you can at least stay on topic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



_stevethegecko_ #52 Posted 03 December 2019 - 06:24 PM

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View PostVindictus_Maximus, on 03 December 2019 - 08:43 PM, said:

 

You a little triggered there Puggsley ?  If you dont care about stats, then why are you even in this thread getting all passive-aggressive over rerolls and stat padders and seal clubbers?

 

Anyway if you want to yolo on behalf of a bunch of guys that you don't know, with negligible impact on the win or loss anyway, then knock yourself out.

 

And maybe start a 'I don't care about stats' thread so you can at least stay on topic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


V_M, you misinterpreted his post so hard that your WTR IRL just went into the negative.


kilig ako


Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #53 Posted 03 December 2019 - 06:30 PM

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View PostFeeTFooD, on 03 December 2019 - 10:29 AM, said:

My low survival rate in some tanks is due to being an absolute moron when I started playing, but overall it’s my risk taking behaviour. I’m an enabler and I take stupid risks sometimes. My survival rate would be higher if I was a little more conservative but at the same time I don’t know if I’d win more often.

I should play to survive a win and die on a loss. If you survive a loss it better be because you didn’t make it back to reset your base on time

 

If I can trade survival rate for winrate, I would. I am.


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CardinalMite #54 Posted 03 December 2019 - 08:45 PM

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View PostFeeTFooD, on 03 December 2019 - 10:24 AM, said:


V_M, you misinterpreted his post so hard that your WTR IRL just went into the negative.

This is his and Hexhammers MO, guess who it was I got my sig quote for..

 

"It's like you literally dont read your own posts, let alone others, make up instead what you wished others said, then put a non-sensical counter argument to that imagined post."


“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

 

"It's like you literally dont read your own posts, let alone others, make up instead what you wished others said, then put a non-sensical counter argument to that imagined post."

 

"Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. But then if I limited myself to only arguing with non-idiots on these forums I'd literally never post"


Vindictus_Maximus #55 Posted 04 December 2019 - 12:19 PM

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View PostFeeTFooD, on 03 December 2019 - 06:24 PM, said:


V_M, you misinterpreted his post so hard that your WTR IRL just went into the negative.

 

No, Puggsley coming in and having a big sook about rerolls, stat padders and seal clubbers... and then saying he doesn't care about stats was the highlight of the thread for me.

 

Just ahead of you showing a battle screenshot proving how useless WN8 is.

 

Seems that Stresslevel, Aoyama are kind of in favor of the new metric, and nobody could really give a reason against the new WTR. So all good - bring it on.

 

 



Puggsley #56 Posted 04 December 2019 - 05:20 PM

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View PostVindictus_Maximus, on 03 December 2019 - 07:43 PM, said:

 

You a little triggered there Puggsley ?  If you dont care about stats, then why are you even in this thread getting all passive-aggressive over rerolls and stat padders and seal clubbers?

 

Anyway if you want to yolo on behalf of a bunch of guys that you don't know, with negligible impact on the win or loss anyway, then knock yourself out.

 

And maybe start a 'I don't care about stats' thread so you can at least stay on topic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Not at all, I'm just commenting on your insane support of a metric which measures a small part of what makes a player good. 

 

I just don't care about your new favourite metric. Other ones, as I have stated over and over are way more representative of how well a player is performing. 

 

You are a reroll, and with pretty terrible stats for one. I think that you see ignoring WR as a way to tell yourself you are a better player. After all that is what drives people to reroll in the first place.

 

And you think winning is luck. 

 

Lets face it you are infatuated with WTR and no-one will every be able to shake your belief in it as the ultimate way to measure your performance. 

 

Until someone comes along with a new metric which you think you can farm better in.

 

Then you will tell everyone just how pathetic a KPI WTR was.



Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #57 Posted 04 December 2019 - 05:33 PM

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We need a new winrate is luck thread. 2019 has passed without a proper one.

"oNlY tOxIc PlAyErS bLaMe ThE tEaM fOr LoSiNg"

 

Still waiting for techtree-based CW


_stevethegecko_ #58 Posted 04 December 2019 - 05:38 PM

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We need more threads where people misinterpret Puggs and Bluey.

kilig ako


Splattimus #59 Posted 05 December 2019 - 08:34 AM

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No, we need a moderator to collate all the past "win rate is luck" threads, all the "This metric is better than that metric" threads, and make one huge mega thread out of it...

 

Will keep em busy for YEARS reading through whats been hammered out over and over and over...

 


WARNING!!! THE ABOVE POST WILL CONTAIN SARCASM. My day job does not allow sarcasm, so its use may be obscure and liberal.

Sarge: What a way to go. Killed by my own mechanical creations. I'm sure there's a philosophical lesson to be learned from all this.
Simmons: Something about the dangers of technology and the unwavering pride of mankind?
Sarge: No, something about hiring better help that doesn't just stand around watching you die!

I don't believe we should kill all the stupid people. Just remove some of the warning signs and let nature take its course...


Saffelicious #60 Posted 05 December 2019 - 10:13 AM

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Helooooo this is Luck?
You guys called? 

 

"Forever lucky" 


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
 
 
Pubbie 1
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