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Amount of spg in high tier HK is unplayable and causes other problem

spg arty balance HK tier10 camping tier9 HE dynamic mm

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Poll: Amount of spg in high tier HK is unplayable and causes other problem (49 members have cast votes)

Do you have problem with 2/3 spgs per game? (in tier 9 and 10)

  1. yes (28 votes [57.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.14%

  2. no (21 votes [42.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 42.86%

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paponmill #1 Posted 30 December 2019 - 11:59 PM

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As the title says, the amount of spgs per battle is 3 pretty much every game in high tier especially tier 10. Making plays in some position that spgs have shots in can be labelled as suicide. They dont even need to hit you directly to cause significant amount of damage ,not to mention stunning and their reload. WG keep stating that spg prevents camping which seems counter intuitive since tanks that are camping are less likely to get spotted therefore not getting hit by it. It is the players trying to make plays who get hit by spg because theyre spotted. I dont know whether the definition of camping is different for you or not but brawling in a spot for a few minutes is NOT camping. 

 

Now, what 3 spgs per game can cause some other problems. One of them is when players are trying to play at the front or mid range (presumably MT and HT), they get rekt by spgs ( how surprising :sceptic: eh? ). Some might turn to play tank destroyers. How playing TDs is bad for the game you might ask. We have to first ask what TDs most players are playing currently.

1. FV4005/Deathstar : now this is probably has the most effect on the game as a TD. The tank itself isnt good but the alpha damage is simply too high. Sure it is fun hit tanks for almost 2k dmg but is it fun to get hit by them? They dont even have to penetrate you to do 600 dmg. Whats the point of armor when this thing just blap your turret with HE for 500?

2. STRV103B : not the biggest problem but what is bad about this thing ( for the game ) is its ridiculous camo and if you dont have the gun caliber to overmatch them or heat shells well you know the rest. Good luck trying to hit the cupola with rng and accuracy.

- other tanks is fine in this regard -- no v4 in the list cos theyre usually at the front anyway -- jadg e100 is still managable but still alpha is a bit too high for me -  The TDs mentioned above have similar effect on the game as spg but less. Although they cant loop shells over everything and hit you from spawn but they are preventing players from moving from 1 spot to another. You can see this happens a lot when 1 team won a flank but is too scared to push when there are 3 high alpha TDs waiting to 1 shot anyone who moves out. ( most likely not having full HP cos of the previous fight so 1 shot is all that is needed to kill you ;) 

 

There are many more problems that are needed to be fixed but this is the worst problem of all imo.( premium shell is a problem too but theyre cause by bad map design ,tanks armor, rng and of course the spgs stunning. Noted here that i have no problem with firing full premium as it is a tool and if people can afford it they can do it. Firing it doesnt make you a good player nor a gold noob. What makes you a good player is position, map awareness etc. ) 

 

 

 

 

 



Several_Sins #2 Posted 31 December 2019 - 05:44 AM

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If you had ever played any decent amount of games in an SPG, you would know that there are a multitude of positions that artillery cannot hit, nor stun. There are many maps that SPG's aren't even very effective due to the type of SPG (think gun arc compared from Obj 261 to say Conq GC), which is often the case. SPG's have also been nerfed to oblivion over the years, don't forget. Would you rather be one-shot for 1800 damage, or progressively stunned for 400 damage over a couple of minutes?

 

In any case, 3 SPG is fine and I will continue to click on people that make stupid mistakes.


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_stevethegecko_ #3 Posted 31 December 2019 - 05:55 AM

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View PostSeveral_Sins, on 31 December 2019 - 08:44 AM, said:

If you had ever played any decent amount of games in an SPG, you would know that there are a multitude of positions that artillery cannot hit, nor stun. There are many maps that SPG's aren't even very effective due to the type of SPG (think gun arc compared from Obj 261 to say Conq GC), which is often the case. SPG's have also been nerfed to oblivion over the years, don't forget. Would you rather be one-shot for 1800 damage, or progressively stunned for 400 damage over a couple of minutes?

 

In any case, 3 SPG is fine and I will continue to click on people that make stupid mistakes.

Stupid mistakes like try to play? Arty promote camping and passive play and punish people who leave cover. 


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southerner #4 Posted 31 December 2019 - 06:03 AM

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You can look at your question another way.

 

Why do lots of people play SPG's

 

I would say the number one reason is because they are easy to learn on, and the noob to average player can get a lot of silver and experience by playing them.

 

As said above there are lots of maps the arty is ineffective on, take Fjords and EL Hallif as good examples of bad arty maps Most city maps also fall into the arty bad maps category as well.

 

I found out  what makes arty tick by winning and credit grinding 3 arty pieces, thats all i needed to find out all about arty and how to counteract them by using natural map cover. Up until i got this arty, I was a rabid anti arty player for 5 years. I now know arty isnt as omnipresent as players make out.

 

You might want to take some arty out for a spin OP, you may be really surprised with what you learn. An easy mid to high arty to get is the Russian S 51. Just go down the Russian heavy tank line and jump into the S 51 at tier 7 after the KV2.


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_stevethegecko_ #5 Posted 31 December 2019 - 06:13 AM

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View Postsoutherner, on 31 December 2019 - 09:03 AM, said:

You can look at your question another way.

 

Why do lots of people play SPG's

 

I would say the number one reason is because they are easy to learn on, and the noob to average player can get a lot of silver and experience by playing them.

 

As said above there are lots of maps the arty is ineffective on, take Fjords and EL Hallif as good examples of bad arty maps Most city maps also fall into the arty bad maps category as well.

 

I found out  what makes arty tick by winning and credit grinding 3 arty pieces, thats all i needed to find out all about arty and how to counteract them by using natural map cover. Up until i got this arty, I was a rabid anti arty player for 5 years. I now know arty isnt as omnipresent as players make out.

 

You might want to take some arty out for a spin OP, you may be really surprised with what you learn. An easy mid to high arty to get is the Russian S 51. Just go down the Russian heavy tank line and jump into the S 51 at tier 7 after the KV2.

El Halluf is an awesome arty map mate. Great opportunities to stun multiple tanks at the same time. 


Edited by _stevethegecko_, 31 December 2019 - 06:14 AM.

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AlexTheKid72 #6 Posted 31 December 2019 - 06:31 AM

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Several_Sins #7 Posted 31 December 2019 - 06:41 AM

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View Post_stevethegecko_, on 31 December 2019 - 07:55 AM, said:

Stupid mistakes like try to play? Arty promote camping and passive play and punish people who leave cover. 

 

There should be no reason to camp for fear of being rained on. Most clickers will pick a silly target that is camping, rather than focus on active players that can cause and influence the course of battle because they are harder targets. Experienced arty players will/should react to changing situations and predict the battle flow.

 

Edit: That's getting a little off topic though. OP is talking about 3SPGplayersbadmk.


Edited by Several_Sins, 31 December 2019 - 06:42 AM.

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_stevethegecko_ #8 Posted 31 December 2019 - 06:53 AM

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View PostSeveral_Sins, on 31 December 2019 - 09:41 AM, said:

 

There should be no reason to camp for fear of being rained on. Most clickers will pick a silly target that is camping, rather than focus on active players that can cause and influence the course of battle because they are harder targets. Experienced arty players will/should react to changing situations and predict the battle flow.

 

Edit: That's getting a little off topic though. OP is talking about 3SPGplayersbadmk.

Bull shit mate. If I’m using arty I click on the most available targets. Anyone dumb enough to get spotted gets shot. If I’m using light tanks I’m always getting targeted by arty. 


Edited by _stevethegecko_, 31 December 2019 - 06:54 AM.

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Splattimus #9 Posted 31 December 2019 - 07:36 AM

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Ok, calm down everyone.

 

SPG's are suppose to fix camping, and they do, just not the camping everyone thinks about.

 

Camping:- Hiding or stationary positioning for ambushing enemy tanks.

So, SPG's promote hiding, behind rocks, out of LOS. But nobody can claim they don't promote moving when your spotted far from cover.

SPG's are suppose to stop tanks sitting in the one spot, perhaps hull down, where they are invincible to those tanks who face them, and dominate unfairly a corridor.

UNFORTUNATELY... WG can't into map design, so a fair few of these hull down positions are where Arty cannot actually hit. While obvious bush is not only obvious, but often easy to hit. Not to mention hiding spots which are "Arty Safe", which means people are most likely to sit and camp, and of course, Corridors...

 

But its also the community as well. Everyone starts playing this Tank game under the impression "Tank is awesome, Tank is invulnerable, tank has awesome armour, no take damage ever". Tank is also Fighting other tanks who often were specifically designed to hurt your tank. 90% of the arguments against SPG's are "Damn clicker hurt my pretty tank when my tank should not have taken damage at all".

Next problem. People notice the battle timer is 15 mins. Get upset when battle does not take anywhere near 15 mins to end. Get upset when people say "Historically this", mention its an Arcade Game. Arcade Game = Over Quickly, lots of action. But are happy to camp for the first 6 minutes because "SPG Might get me". Humorous side note, most SPG's would only just be finally loaded at this point.

 

But, lets get back to whats really wrong here.

Maps are too corridor like.

Corridors are choke Points, makes assaults hard / impossible.

Defense makes more sense than offense.

Defense = camping.

Camping = booring.

WG thinks adding SPG's, but giving everyone shelter from them fixes poor map design, and will make battle more dynamic.

 

Is 3 SPG's per side a problem in any battle? Nope, depending on map. So Yes, depending on map also.

Is SPG's the root cause of the problem? Not in a long shot. Maps are the cause, the root of the problem. With better maps, Premium rounds would be required less, SPG's would be less effective, game play would be more dynamic, because there would be choices to avoid choke points altogether. More space, more chance assault is better than defense.

 

But, people will just rail against SPG's because they know how to completely dominate without them, while others have no clue what they're getting themselves in for...


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TE_maaw_ #10 Posted 31 December 2019 - 07:43 AM

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This server meta, 3 arty and ebr are the worst combination that you can get.

Vindictus_Maximus #11 Posted 31 December 2019 - 08:21 AM

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The entire tier10 experience is just braindead anyway. Not just SPGs, it is also filled with weak players - 22k games with 4500 player rating types  sitting in their JgPze100s, E4s. Deathstars, just sitting there patiently waiting to get their 1 shot off for the game before dying. Then there is all the reward tanks., no it is horrible.

 

Mid tiers is where it is at, where camo/viewrange mechanics count, shell velocity and gun accuracy is reduced, basically giving the feel of more space and more room.

 

 

 

 



Several_Sins #12 Posted 31 December 2019 - 08:54 AM

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View Post_stevethegecko_, on 31 December 2019 - 08:53 AM, said:

Bull shit mate. If I’m using arty I click on the most available targets. Anyone dumb enough to get spotted gets shot. If I’m using light tanks I’m always getting targeted by arty. 

 

That's because LT's have the biggest impact on a battle in the current meta. I will rarely target an LT, because most of em' are wheelies and in high tier arty, the amount of ammunition is important.

 

I'm not saying your wrong at all, but a vast majority of arty players are pretty crap and just spam in the hopes of getting some good damage in. Not the point of good arty play if you want to threaten a flank to force them into a bad position for your team to take control.

 

TLDR: Rarely are battles carried by arty, but they influence flanks to take map control.


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_stevethegecko_ #13 Posted 31 December 2019 - 10:03 AM

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It’s not just high tiers. In 5 consecutive game’s I’ve been spammed to death in the OI in the approach to brawling spots

 

Edit: I was so sick of arty on HK so I went to AU expecting less. I'm working on HT 12.3 which involves bouncing 3x my own hp. Impossible because there are still 3 arty per game on AU.


Edited by _stevethegecko_, 31 December 2019 - 11:34 AM.

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southerner #14 Posted 31 December 2019 - 12:11 PM

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Well what do you expect steve me ole mate ??? Your plodding along in a Japanese super heavy that even a snail can beat in a race. So naturally you are an arty magnet.
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NameWasStolenStresslevel #15 Posted 31 December 2019 - 12:27 PM

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View PostSeveral_Sins, on 31 December 2019 - 06:44 AM, said:

If you had ever played any decent amount of games in an SPG, you would know that there are a multitude of positions that artillery cannot hit, nor stun. There are many maps that SPG's aren't even very effective due to the type of SPG (think gun arc compared from Obj 261 to say Conq GC), which is often the case. SPG's have also been nerfed to oblivion over the years, don't forget. Would you rather be one-shot for 1800 damage, or progressively stunned for 400 damage over a couple of minutes?

 

In any case, 3 SPG is fine and I will continue to click on people that make stupid mistakes.

 

There are many positions artylary cant hit ofc, the same exact positions that are useless for anything else.


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NameWasStolenStresslevel #16 Posted 31 December 2019 - 12:35 PM

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View PostSeveral_Sins, on 31 December 2019 - 07:41 AM, said:

 

There should be no reason to camp for fear of being rained on. Most clickers will pick a silly target that is camping, rather than focus on active players that can cause and influence the course of battle because they are harder targets. Experienced arty players will/should react to changing situations and predict the battle flow.

 

Edit: That's getting a little off topic though. OP is talking about 3SPGplayersbadmk.

omg facepalm, are u really playing this game or just guessing stuff?

 

I wonder where do you get all these data from: "most clickers will do this, and will do that because i know".

 

Your logic defies the laws of commom sense. If the player is camping, how can he get most often target by most clickers if he is most likely to be unspotted??? Obviously the most active players are targeted. Pure facepalm.

 

Cant believe the forum allow this kind of stuff, the same forums that penalize me for talking about magnetic fields.

This thing he is claiming is about the same level of ludacris-ridiculous.


Edited by NameWasStolenStresslevel, 31 December 2019 - 12:42 PM.

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_stevethegecko_ #17 Posted 31 December 2019 - 12:44 PM

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View PostNameWasStolenStresslevel, on 31 December 2019 - 03:35 PM, said:

omg facepalm, are u really playing this game or just guessing stuff?

 

I wonder where do you get all these data from: "most clickers will do this, and will do that because i know".

 

Your logic defies the laws of commom sense. If the player is camping, how can he get most often target by most clickers if he is most likely to be unspotted??? Obviously the most active players are targeted. Pure facepalm.

 

Cant believe the forum allow this kind of stuff, the same forums that penalize me for talking about magnetic fields.

This thing he is claiming is about the same level of ludacris-ridiculous.

Then rip into him lol


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Several_Sins #18 Posted 31 December 2019 - 01:31 PM

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View PostNameWasStolenStresslevel, on 31 December 2019 - 02:35 PM, said:

omg facepalm, are u really playing this game or just guessing stuff?

 

I wonder where do you get all these data from: "most clickers will do this, and will do that because i know".

 

Your logic defies the laws of commom sense. If the player is camping, how can he get most often target by most clickers if he is most likely to be unspotted??? Obviously the most active players are targeted. Pure facepalm.

 

Cant believe the forum allow this kind of stuff, the same forums that penalize me for talking about magnetic fields.

This thing he is claiming is about the same level of ludacris-ridiculous.

 

It's not really a guess. People are lazy, ergo will fire on what's easy to hit; campers - and that is not directed at TD's or un-spotted vehicles, rather those that are idiots and don't relocate. Simple logic yeah?

 

And the magnetic poles are shifting. /tinfoilhat

 

View Post_stevethegecko_, on 31 December 2019 - 02:44 PM, said:

Then rip into him lol

 

Would you rather the ole' 10+ arty per game? That was fun for nobody.

 

1-3 SPG per game, it won't make a difference to the game. People still going to QQ about something (insert next vehicle here).


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_stevethegecko_ #19 Posted 31 December 2019 - 01:38 PM

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View PostSeveral_Sins, on 31 December 2019 - 08:44 AM, said:

If you had ever played any decent amount of games in an SPG, you would know that there are a multitude of positions that artillery cannot hit, nor stun. There are many maps that SPG's aren't even very effective due to the type of SPG (think gun arc compared from Obj 261 to say Conq GC), which is often the case. SPG's have also been nerfed to oblivion over the years, don't forget. Would you rather be one-shot for 1800 damage, or progressively stunned for 400 damage over a couple of minutes?

 

In any case, 3 SPG is fine and I will continue to click on people that make stupid mistakes.

 

This bolded part. You realise that SPG have tracks and can move right? With the exception of a few maps there is literally no where to hide.

 

Personally i'd rather all arty be removed from the game because it's a shit game mechanic that does the opposite of what it is supposed to do.


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Several_Sins #20 Posted 31 December 2019 - 01:46 PM

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View Post_stevethegecko_, on 31 December 2019 - 03:38 PM, said:

This bolded part. You realise that SPG have tracks and can move right? With the exception of a few maps there is literally no where to hide.

 

Personally i'd rather all arty be removed from the game because it's a shit game mechanic that does the opposite of what it is supposed to do.

 

Remember, we're talking about the majority of SPG players. They wouldn't know arty had a W key, let alone the rest.

 

View Post_stevethegecko_, on 31 December 2019 - 03:38 PM, said:

Personally i'd rather all arty be removed from the game because it's a shit game mechanic that does the opposite of what it is supposed to do.

 

I agree. It's like Carriers in Ships is just totally unbalanced at the moment and should be removed. Don't get me started on Subs.


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