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Change my mind - Game is no longer Free to Play


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IKillYouInfidel #41 Posted 17 January 2020 - 08:48 PM

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View PostEzz, on 17 January 2020 - 08:14 PM, said:

Not sure if this should be reported as a forum bot or what. Care to expand on what you are talking about?

 

" After 2.5 months, the annual collaboration between the American Amazon (Twitch) and Wargaming is terminated."



Vindictus_Maximus #42 Posted 17 January 2020 - 08:51 PM

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You need to pay to excel.

 

I am not saying that paying will make you excel, or that great players are only great because they pay, but generally speaking if you dont fork out real money, your overall performance and stats will be far worse than otherwise.

 

However there are tech tree tanks out there that print credits and perform really well shooting standard ammo and no premium consumables. Luchs, M44 and most other mid tier arty, T71DA, all the HE Derp-gun tanks. You can play all those tanks I list and have great games, get great stats, and never have to pay a cent. Beyond tier7 becomes very expensive and mostly unpleasant unless you pay real cash.

 

I get what OP is saying and kind of agree


Edited by Vindictus_Maximus, 17 January 2020 - 08:52 PM.


Ezz #43 Posted 17 January 2020 - 09:49 PM

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View PostIKillYouInfidel, on 17 January 2020 - 10:48 PM, said:

 

" After 2.5 months, the annual collaboration between the American Amazon (Twitch) and Wargaming is terminated."

Which 2.5 months precisely? Is it going to be 2.5 29 day februaries? Or are you saying end of april is it?


Edited by Ezz, 17 January 2020 - 09:51 PM.

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IKillYouInfidel #44 Posted 17 January 2020 - 09:57 PM

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View PostEzz, on 17 January 2020 - 09:49 PM, said:

Which 2.5 months precisely? Is it going to be 2.5 29 day februaries? Or are you saying end of april is it?

 

Why to ask me ?

http://forum.worldoftanks.asia/index.php?/topic/28338-more-than-400-new-vehicles-are-still-planned-for-wot/page__st__1320#topmost

 

 



Ezz #45 Posted 17 January 2020 - 10:03 PM

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Yeah but that's blue loo.

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NameWasStolenStresslevel #46 Posted 18 January 2020 - 12:16 AM

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Well the title of this thread claims that the game is "no longer free-to-play".

 

"The game" is not pay to play. Tier 10 is only a small part of "the game". It has the smallest player base and the smallest amount of tanks. So "the game" is not pay to play. 


Edited by NameWasStolenStresslevel, 18 January 2020 - 12:33 AM.

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Vindictus_Maximus #47 Posted 18 January 2020 - 06:19 AM

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View PostNameWasStolenStresslevel, on 18 January 2020 - 12:16 AM, said:

Well the title of this thread claims that the game is "no longer free-to-play".

 

 Yes and Groot also said that the game is pay-to-win, so he is technically wrong on both counts and discussion in this thread has pretty much established this.

 

However, playing this game for free is a pretty horrible experience, so I agree with OPs sentiments.



MagicalFlyingFox #48 Posted 18 January 2020 - 09:51 AM

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Because I can't be arsed to read the mess of a thread, I'd argue that its still free to play, you just have a competitive advantage if you do decide to pay money for premium tanks. 

 

In the context of a competitive game and gamer jargon, it is 'pay to win but free to play' in that case. 

 

Pay for conveniance however is the entire business model of a free to play game, so advantages like more credits and exp to get to better grindable tanks faster and let you spam more gold isn't within the scope of 'pay to win' since its not actually locked behind a paywall. 


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 A. Guy on 02 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

Destroyer of Tier 6 CW... says it all about you.


tixo #49 Posted 18 January 2020 - 11:04 AM

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View PostBabyGroot, on 12 January 2020 - 01:25 PM, said:

Hello everyone, it's been forever since I last visited these forums. Previously whenever I thread these waters it is to debate and or guide others with whatever game elements.

Anyway, this time it's different. For the past few weeks I've been trying to get back in the game. But i'm struggling real hard with the current meta = GOLD rounds at high tier matches.

I'm not gonna go deeper than that. I think a few rounds on my type 5 pretty much tells me everything wrong with the game right now.

 

I'm more interested in what the current and presently active players opinion of the game are. Because I really want to have a fun time playing the game, but the meta.. just ruins it for me. I can't enjoy the game if I will be restricted to playing the best tanks that I have to load a ton of gold rounds in order to win.

 

Things used to be different, I've got 40k something battles and I was for the most part a free to play, player. My load out was always 80 - 90% Normal/HE rounds + 10 - 20% Gold (That I rarely used) because back then the meta allows you to play the game without having to load gold.

 

So anyway, what are your thoughts? I personally think the game has evolved into pay to win over the years... Change my mind.

I think you should be happy that the game is evolving with time and as a veteran you cannot claim the top spot easily . It's a fast pace, and you'll have to work hard to keep up . At the start of the ranked battel last year , I figured it out that playing with Leopard and progetto would be the best option for a free to play player and with 88%  efficiency i was able to claim a spot in  the Silver league. So instead of complaining get better and think positive . Do you want an easy game to play where you are the best and rest are headless chickens . Accept the challenge and enjoy the game glhf 

 



BabyGroot #50 Posted 18 January 2020 - 05:04 PM

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View Posttixo, on 18 January 2020 - 11:04 AM, said:

I think you should be happy that the game is evolving with time and as a veteran you cannot claim the top spot easily . It's a fast pace, and you'll have to work hard to keep up . At the start of the ranked battel last year , I figured it out that playing with Leopard and progetto would be the best option for a free to play player and with 88%  efficiency i was able to claim a spot in  the Silver league. So instead of complaining get better and think positive . Do you want an easy game to play where you are the best and rest are headless chickens . Accept the challenge and enjoy the game glhf 

 

Basically saying, stick to the meta?

 

Evolving is not the right word i'd use. I'd use devolving. It's clear that back then you can play any tank at high tiers completely without spending gold rounds. There's almost no gold spam that removes skillful play. You'd actually have to use your brain and figure out a way to flank heavy targets unlike today where you simply dab 2 key.

 

[edit]

View PostVindictus_Maximus, on 18 January 2020 - 06:19 AM, said:

 Yes and Groot also said that the game is pay-to-win, so he is technically wrong on both counts and discussion in this thread has pretty much established this.

 

However, playing this game for free is a pretty horrible experience, so I agree with OPs sentiments.

 

Yep, I think people missed the post in page 1, post #18 where I sort of changed my mind.

 


Edited by BabyGroot, 18 January 2020 - 05:18 PM.

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BabyGroot #51 Posted 18 January 2020 - 05:06 PM

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View PostEzz, on 17 January 2020 - 07:51 PM, said:

It appears it's not about hard earned so much as finding an excuse.

 

View PostBabyGroot, on 13 January 2020 - 11:06 PM, said:

Based on these comments, it would seem that the game is technically still free to play. With the exception of high tiers, the point upon which it is essential to either pay to stay competitive.

 

In the end I think the game is free, but it is essentially pay to win (in high tiers) in multiple elements most notably gold rounds.

 


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tixo #52 Posted 18 January 2020 - 06:38 PM

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View PostBabyGroot, on 18 January 2020 - 02:04 PM, said:

 

Basically saying, stick to the meta?

 

Evolving is not the right word i'd use. I'd use devolving. It's clear that back then you can play any tank at high tiers completely without spending gold rounds. There's almost no gold spam that removes skillful play. You'd actually have to use your brain and figure out a way to flank heavy targets unlike today where you simply dab 2 key.

 

[edit]

 

Yep, I think people missed the post in page 1, post #18 where I sort of changed my mind.

 

You are living in the past . 

 

wake me up when September ends?

 

Today Bounced 5.7k damage (all heat rounds) on obj 277 lel and 277 does not have the strongest armour  .

 

 


Edited by tixo, 18 January 2020 - 06:46 PM.


BabyGroot #53 Posted 19 January 2020 - 02:19 PM

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View Posttixo, on 18 January 2020 - 06:38 PM, said:

Today Bounced 5.7k damage (all heat rounds) on obj 277 lel and 277 does not have the strongest armour  .

 

You were talking about evolution of game?

 

So basically people spamming 5.7k bounced damage worth of low IQ plays is the result of evolution..


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mttspiii #54 Posted 19 January 2020 - 06:11 PM

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View PostBabyGroot, on 18 January 2020 - 05:04 PM, said:

 

Basically saying, stick to the meta?

 

Evolving is not the right word i'd use. I'd use devolving. It's clear that back then you can play any tank at high tiers completely without spending gold rounds. There's almost no gold spam that removes skillful play. You'd actually have to use your brain and figure out a way to flank heavy targets unlike today where you simply dab 2 key.

 

Gold spam always have had removed skillful play; the only major change that's happened to sprem since WoT's heyday is that "soft" targets and "weakspots" became tougher, thus more players have learned to spam sprem.

 

Back then everything had weakspots and were considerably weaker-armored, like Conqueror and IS-8 turrets being easily-penned by a Centurion with normal rounds. But also, all of them were easy food for HEAT-54, even more so than today. Tanks died faster back then to goldspam, while today they got general armor buffs that increased survivability so much that more players got lazy and spammed sprem.

 

What changed I think were a) tougher enemies, and b) arty rebalance. Back then when players were strictly on AP, targets were softer; what you can't pen with AP you can spot for arty to drop 1k-damage on them. Now, tanks are tougher and arty hits way weaker, so while technically you survive more, the enemies also survive more since you can't just AP their weakspots nor wait for arty to grind them down. You can't dictate the terms of engagement with just AP either since more players know hulldown and sidescrape; you'd have to dig them out with arty or sprem. Nor can you go around and flank; WoT's maps are all old and left behind in the corridor meta (or new but lazily based on old maps) which relied on softer tanks and stronger arty to work.

 

So as a f2p player, you can't "force" the fight on them because everyone is tougher and on more defensible ground, so you'd have no choice but to wait. On the other hand, the enemy can't push on you as easily either, so you can force the enemy to fight on your terms and they have no choice but to wait too. You might earn less credits per battle since there's less targets to shoot at, but you yourself also survive long enough to pull back and rethink your tactical play, positioning yourself to go after stragglers or simply waiting back for the weaker-armored second line of enemy tanks to show up, so it cancels out.

 

TL;DR: game's still p2w same as before, only this time you can't AP-spam weakspots so you have to rethink your position, which is not so hard since the enemy can't AP-spam you either so you can survive the crawl to the next fighting spot.


Edited by mttspiii, 19 January 2020 - 06:13 PM.

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MagicalFlyingFox #55 Posted 19 January 2020 - 09:48 PM

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WG made the game corridors and added armour to everything for no apparent reason. The only way to defeat the armour was gold rounds because 'weakspots' were removed.

 

Now they've rolled it back, but everyone just spams gold anyway because its just easier and the economy allows it.


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 A. Guy on 02 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

Destroyer of Tier 6 CW... says it all about you.


Ezz #56 Posted 19 January 2020 - 09:51 PM

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View PostMagicalFlyingFox, on 19 January 2020 - 11:48 PM, said:

and the economy allows it.

^^^

 

Anyone ever in any doubt why there are bads and bots in the upper tiers need only look to this one glaringly true, yet rather depressing statement of the current state of the game.


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Splattimus #57 Posted 20 January 2020 - 07:21 AM

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You'd have to define "Pay to Play" and "Free to Play".

 

Traditionally, the difference is spending Real Money. In the traditional sense, everything has a cost, before the micro transaction / post release monetized content, you payed for everything with time.

So, spending "Time" is the de-facto. The base economy.

"Is the content in WoT's worth spending the base economy on? ie, Is WoT too grindy to get to good stuff?" would be one question. Although it also requires a definition of "Good Stuff".

"Does spending Real Life Money improve this?" would make another question.

And finally, Is spending money to improve the base economy necessary, and does it make the game "Free to Play", or "Pay to Play".

 

Personally, Good Stuff was those Historic Tanks. Now its whatever takes my fancy.

Credits are slow to build up when you also need to shoot premium rounds, pay for consumables, crew training etc. IE the meta has moved on from bog standard tanks with crappy crews doing ok.

Penetration, and the proliferation of thicker than normal armour for its tier premium tanks seems to be driving the game towards being more grindy, as you spend more credits on premium rounds to deal with these tanks.

But, at the end of the day, its a personal thing. How much time is too much to grind credits / xp to get the tank you want? Personally, the first Tier 10 tank I wanted was the Maus. I'm currently further from it than I've been for 6 years, but meh, when it happens, it happens...


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IcAnz #58 Posted 20 January 2020 - 07:08 PM

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It's Pay to Win definitely, and during Marathons they'll freely throw in the word "Free Premium Tank", when it actually isn't.

BabyGroot #59 Posted 20 January 2020 - 07:41 PM

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View Postmttspiii, on 19 January 2020 - 06:11 PM, said:

Gold spam always have had removed skillful play; the only major change that's happened to sprem since WoT's heyday is that "soft" targets and "weakspots" became tougher, thus more players have learned to spam sprem.

 

Back then everything had weakspots and were considerably weaker-armored, like Conqueror and IS-8 turrets being easily-penned by a Centurion with normal rounds. But also, all of them were easy food for HEAT-54, even more so than today. Tanks died faster back then to goldspam, while today they got general armor buffs that increased survivability so much that more players got lazy and spammed sprem.

 

What changed I think were a) tougher enemies, and b) arty rebalance. Back then when players were strictly on AP, targets were softer; what you can't pen with AP you can spot for arty to drop 1k-damage on them. Now, tanks are tougher and arty hits way weaker, so while technically you survive more, the enemies also survive more since you can't just AP their weakspots nor wait for arty to grind them down. You can't dictate the terms of engagement with just AP either since more players know hulldown and sidescrape; you'd have to dig them out with arty or sprem. Nor can you go around and flank; WoT's maps are all old and left behind in the corridor meta (or new but lazily based on old maps) which relied on softer tanks and stronger arty to work.

 

So as a f2p player, you can't "force" the fight on them because everyone is tougher and on more defensible ground, so you'd have no choice but to wait. On the other hand, the enemy can't push on you as easily either, so you can force the enemy to fight on your terms and they have no choice but to wait too. You might earn less credits per battle since there's less targets to shoot at, but you yourself also survive long enough to pull back and rethink your tactical play, positioning yourself to go after stragglers or simply waiting back for the weaker-armored second line of enemy tanks to show up, so it cancels out.

 

TL;DR: game's still p2w same as before, only this time you can't AP-spam weakspots so you have to rethink your position, which is not so hard since the enemy can't AP-spam you either so you can survive the crawl to the next fighting spot.

 

This are clearly evident today, I quitted back when they removed type 5 weak spots hoping when I get back they'd fixed it. Turns out they doubled down on that mistake and now everyone has to gold spam in order to keep up.

 

idk how anyone on their right state of mind would consider this an evolution of the game when it's clearly moving backwards.

 

I gotta give props to WG tho for keeping the game updated constantly more so than ever. Got to keep the cows happy and full I guess so they could keep milking them.


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ForbiddenName #60 Posted 20 January 2020 - 09:13 PM

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View PostSevatar_, on 14 January 2020 - 09:00 AM, said:

 

Ehhhh different servers though. EU does not spam gold like us. He does recommend high base pen vehicles with the latest being the buffed leo line.

 

Daring to fire gold on the NA server would also lead to post game love letters.






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