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One-sided games are the result of fair MM


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Aoyama_Blue_Mountain #1 Posted 29 June 2020 - 09:40 AM

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I just had a battle where the enemy EBR owned Malinovka while ours did 1 spot before dying: The enemy EBR

 

Followed by another Tundra battle where our HT just camped

 

One-sided games seemed to have a growth in complaints recently. Fair MM was also a recent implementation. Coincidence? I think not.

 

The problem with fair MM is that the balance of the battle falls largely onto the players of those few tanks that are deemed key to the battle and hence evenly matched. The problem is that even if the tanks are matched, the players are not. And if these key players lose, the team is dead.

 

Easier to illustrate with an example. 3 HT 3 MT per team. If the 3 HT forgot to update their bot programs, you have pretty much a 0HT 3MT vs 3HT 3MT (or maybe 2HT 3MT after the fight, which is not much better)

 

And what unfair MM solved was this: Say if you had 2HT 4MT vs 3HT 3MT. Even if your HT is made of wet cardboard, in any case they are worth 0HT anyway. But now you have more MT than the enemy which gives you an additional avenue of winning.

 

Same for the EBR example. A bad EBR will die and the winning team will always end up having the spotting advantage. An extra HT on the loser side helps to negate that imbalance.

 

Or, to put it simply mathematically, if you don't want one-sided games due to skill differences, then have the outcome of games depend on luck. Remember that CW always have more one-sided outcomes than close ones so that's what you get when you up the dependence on skill.


Edited by Aoyama_Blue_Mountain, 29 June 2020 - 09:44 AM.

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NameWasStolenStresslevel #2 Posted 29 June 2020 - 09:59 AM

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It could be just one of the reasons (for one-sided games). The main reason is the casual players are multiplicating. Add that to EBR+SPG and you have people afraid of SPG camping in the base and not taking important locations, while enemy EBR rush in and spot everybody lol. This is how most of one sided games I have seen ended. It also happens a lot in maps like Chinese Border, Mines (before I banned it), Sand River with 3 SPG also happens alot to end quickly.

 

-Casual players

-EBRs

-3SPG

-Maps that isolate one flank from another

-Brawler MT vs sniper MT type of MM

 


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_Sp4rtacus_ #3 Posted 29 June 2020 - 10:47 AM

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Yer MM just matches the tanks not the players , frustrating when you see HT at base until the battle has been fought

then they get up the courage to come out . Their loss really , they aint getting any xp for observing .



IMC_Jezza #4 Posted 29 June 2020 - 12:30 PM

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Had one of those 2 Tier 10, 3 tier 9, the rest tier 8's games the other day........

 

As you say, so much of the outcome is determined by those two tier 10's.  We had a Unicorn in a chieftan, and an adequate in a 140 - the opposition, unfortunately for them had less competent 10's, one of whom decided defending base in his IS-7 (on Pilsen) was a good Idea, the other drove into the buildings sideways on got promptly deleted.  Chieftan proceeds to boss the buildings, 140 actually used in game chat and rallied a bunch of meds to push the creek line, game over in 3 minutes 15-0......

 

Same "tanks" mm just vastly different player skills in the two most influential tanks.....

 

So true....


Edited by IMC_Jezza, 29 June 2020 - 12:30 PM.

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Ezz #5 Posted 29 June 2020 - 12:33 PM

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Saying it's the result of fair MM only tells half the story. Imo it's the infestation of the upper tiers by those mindlessly grinding / botting who clearly don't care, combined with an economic model that allows for bot like play to remain viable. If they made the upper tiers hard for below average players to sustain, we'd see less shitters up there, and hence less significant player imbalance.

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Holeinthehead #6 Posted 29 June 2020 - 04:48 PM

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Factor in that new players start at tier 4 / 5 now . Bit late to learn basics halfway through the game .

Strangely I always thought there was a tier 1 for a reason . Perhaps WG can remove ALL tanks from tiers 1 to 4 to make it more simple for people to understand ..........


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NZ_Tanker #7 Posted 29 June 2020 - 06:36 PM

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https://imgur.com/a/jpEp2Z1 here best MM my first game of the day 100% one sided no one killed a tank. 

Edited by NZ_Tanker, 29 June 2020 - 06:37 PM.


NZ_Tanker #8 Posted 29 June 2020 - 06:41 PM

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3rd game mm at its best https://imgur.com/a/guVz1fp now gonna install xvm and look at % chance to win 

EvilRobot #9 Posted 29 June 2020 - 06:48 PM

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View PostNZ_Tanker, on 29 June 2020 - 10:41 AM, said:

3rd game mm at its best https://imgur.com/a/guVz1fp now gonna install xvm and look at % chance to win 

 

unfortunately with your stats it will always be a loss



NZ_Tanker #10 Posted 29 June 2020 - 07:10 PM

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View PostEvilRobot, on 29 June 2020 - 11:48 PM, said:

 

unfortunately with your stats it will always be a loss

love it how players give me crap for my stats do you 53% winrate players get teams i get?

 

my stats? had few theses last night https://imgur.com/a/qFIhHVX 


Edited by NZ_Tanker, 29 June 2020 - 07:11 PM.


NZ_Tanker #11 Posted 29 June 2020 - 07:13 PM

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Here is another yes in was new map but i was the last to die!!!!! https://imgur.com/a/hhlU5qq always stats shaming me cause my win rate i get games like this alot. 

EvilRobot #12 Posted 29 June 2020 - 07:29 PM

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tbh xvm winrate calculator will stat shame every game lol.

 

My advice is find a low teir tank you're good at and stat pad, it's how i managed to stay above 50% during my NA potato days.



Ezz #13 Posted 29 June 2020 - 09:18 PM

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Low tiers should help you improve. And yes, sadly good players get just as many shit teams as everyone else.

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Puggsley #14 Posted 30 June 2020 - 08:45 AM

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View PostEzz, on 29 June 2020 - 11:18 PM, said:

Low tiers should help you improve. And yes, sadly good players get just as many shit teams as everyone else.

 

Sorry Ezz, but you are dead wrong there, good players will get more shit team-mates.

 

Because they remove one of the good players from the pool then they have a better than average chance of getting shittier teams. 

 

Conversely, bad players will have a better chance of getting good team-mates because they have removed one of the shittier players from the pool of potential team-mates. 

 

:hiding:

 

 



Puggsley #15 Posted 30 June 2020 - 08:48 AM

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View PostNZ_Tanker, on 29 June 2020 - 08:41 PM, said:

3rd game mm at its best https://imgur.com/a/guVz1fp now gonna install xvm and look at % chance to win 

 

You understand that because of your statistics being used to calculate the % chance to win it will be more often something you don't like don't you?

 

Turning on "chance to win" is guaranteed to make your gaming experience worse.Do yourself a favour and don't do it.



Ezz #16 Posted 30 June 2020 - 08:50 AM

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Relative to the player yes. But if we define teams as the other 14 players you're in battle with...

 


Edited by Ezz, 30 June 2020 - 08:51 AM.

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CardinalMite #17 Posted 30 June 2020 - 09:18 AM

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View PostNZ_Tanker, on 29 June 2020 - 10:41 AM, said:

3rd game mm at its best https://imgur.com/a/guVz1fp now gonna install xvm and look at % chance to win 

You went full XVM... never go full XVM..

 

The only affect of chance to win is that it will trigger you, which will make you play worse.


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NameWasStolenStresslevel #18 Posted 30 June 2020 - 09:24 AM

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View PostPuggsley, on 30 June 2020 - 09:45 AM, said:

 

Sorry Ezz, but you are dead wrong there, good players will get more shit team-mates.

 

Because they remove one of the good players from the pool then they have a better than average chance of getting shittier teams. 

 

Conversely, bad players will have a better chance of getting good team-mates because they have removed one of the shittier players from the pool of potential team-mates. 

 

:hiding:

 

 

 

Exactly that. For example for a 65%WR player getting 60% WR session is a total shit day. But for a 45%WR player having 60%WR session is a good day LOL. Same thing happens when we analyze chance to win. Its completly relative to the player. A 45% player will prefer having a 50%WR player on his team than having someone that has 44%WR, but a for a 50%WR player he will probably not want to have that 45%WR player on his team and will rather want a player with 53%WR than that 45%WR. So for a 65%WR player he will always get bad teams relative to him, but a bad player have more chance of getting teams that are slightly better than him on average.


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FramFramson #19 Posted 30 June 2020 - 11:52 AM

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XVM Chance to win is garbage anyway. It exaggerates at the extremes and is meaningless with close numbers. It's also [edited] by anyone who's statpadding.

 

And yes, the psychological impact is big. Most people see 49% and get demoralized, while others see 51% and play like it's their first day because they think they're in for a free ride.

 

Funny enough, psychological research suggest that in order to feel that an outcome was "neutral" a person will, on average, need to see TRIPLE the losses on the opposing side as they do their own.

 

Amazingly, examples of this goes back millennia. For example, the Iliad, a story written by Greeks, for a Greek audience, presented as a stalemate in the narrative, and generally being documented as Greeks feeling it's the story of a stalemate, has three times as many named Trojan characters die as it does Greek characters.


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Puggsley #20 Posted 30 June 2020 - 11:54 AM

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Edited by Puggsley, 30 June 2020 - 11:56 AM.





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