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Match-Making Matchmaking MM Balance rework Tier Random-Battles Random Random battles Un-even

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Arshar #1 Posted 10 September 2020 - 11:50 AM

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" "They provide the World, we citizens are responsible for how crap or good it is "

greatest thing ever said on this forum.

Splattimus said it, quote didn't work."

http://forum.worldoftanks.asia/index.php?/topic/86032-i-assume-wg-doesnt-care-so-long-as-it-sells-things/page__pid__1822464#entry1822464

 

 

"You're at 84k games and you're yet to come to terms with the games' shortcomings??"

http://forum.worldoftanks.asia/index.php?/topic/87301-one-sided-games/page__pid__1840683#entry1840683

 

and

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Matchmaker_(WoT)

 

10 years of WOT !

 

Data and Statistics that this game provides, like no other game, and yet MM is stuck to Tiers !

 

I exited the game after playing a battle, in my recently bought Panther, My entire team gets snuffed by this E25, who manages to get 3.6K damage (More than double of 2nd highest dmg in both teams), 5 kills, Top gun, Defender...

 

BUT WAIT !!!!

 

Surprise Surprise.. !!

 

We won the Game as One TD  who in the entire game shot nothing blew that E25 because that E25 so Foolishly exposed himself, that tells me how experienced and skilled he is..

 

and how did he get so low on Health you ask ? Skill and Exp Baby.. Skill and Exp !

 

Now people who like to point out how bad a player you are, and how you need to improve, listen up.. If you know who's door to break to get it fixed... break their @#$@% door, grab them by their collar and knock some sense into them..

 

MM needs a major revamp, if you can see how well a player can do in a vehicle, how he has been doing recently with a particular vehicle, what he mounts on it, his crew skills etc please make use of it for MM.

 

Ref OP premiums.. BTW the most awesome video on wot I saw some time back where a famous youtuber cribs about how bad Scorpion G has become without its stats on paper being modified..

 

It is sad that we get MM's where plp trying to play and earn skills on their new tanks get wiped out repeatedly by either well skilled players or OP premiums who in the end of the battle top the charts.. or worse get in an OP team where opposite team is wiped out clean by rest of the team members.. now how will you tell a person that who he needs to improve learn from his mistakes in this case.. ? 

 

I know how bad and pathetic I am while playing a recently purchase VK-30.01P and how awesome I am while playing my AMX 12 t..

 

How can such an inefficient MM help players Improve ? How can I improve If I keep playing my AMX 12 t with and against poor players ? how will I earn skills If I get wiped out game after game in my VK 30.01 P ?

 

Like always I headed to this forum fuming ! and the good thing about WOT being so bad is I quit playing the game for the day (or months) start doing something useful and productive.

 



Wodka_Warrior #2 Posted 10 September 2020 - 01:04 PM

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Word. 

Ezz #3 Posted 10 September 2020 - 01:30 PM

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The key to improving is self analysis. Look at what you are doing wrong in the vk and find ways to change that behaviour.

Who the [edited] are you? Get Spoofed! "wouldn't be a proper WG balance change if they didn't [edited] something up after all "

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Puggsley #4 Posted 10 September 2020 - 04:37 PM

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Its those robot posts again

Arshar #5 Posted 10 September 2020 - 04:57 PM

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View PostPuggsley, on 10 September 2020 - 01:37 PM, said:

Its those robot posts again

 

:) Hi Puggsley, I liked what you mentioned in that post - http://forum.worldoftanks.asia/index.php?/topic/87574-how-is-match-making-supposed-to-work-it-seems-broken/page__st__20__pid__1844616#entry1844616

 

after.. "I'll throw you out a challenge."

 

Do you mean to say no point in emailing wot dev's and posting in forums how bad MM's is and the only way is finding a better way to play a tank ?

 

I accepted and implemented that after my 1st ever post on this forum which was a raging rant on T-44, then I changed the way I play less aggressive and more tactical.. (I still find my self throwing in front of the enemy and brawling and getting smoked..)

 

I understand what plp are trying to say here, but is it happening vice versa ? I just had a game which ended '0:15' ! and such thing happens frequently, I am not the only one complaining about it..

 

How many people come to forums and complaint, not more than 10 posts I guess on MM..



Puggsley #6 Posted 10 September 2020 - 05:11 PM

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I'm still trying to wade my way through that first post and trying to figure out what you are trying to say.

 

I don't care if youngsters find full stops aggressive, or that randomly inserting emojis into sentences helps people to feel better. You have chosen to write to express yourself. For the love of god read it through before you post and see if it makes sense.

 

++ for using paragraphs.

 

Yes, improving yourself is a much faster and much less stressful way to get better.

 

If you cannot figure out how to drive your own tank, then what makes you think you can convince WoT to change the entire game?


Edited by Puggsley, 10 September 2020 - 05:17 PM.


Arshar #7 Posted 10 September 2020 - 05:41 PM

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Keep the tier system for mm, but create a system to group and pit players based on their skill level,

 

Based on a dynamic rating, how may battles have they played on that vehicle, what equipment have they mounted, whats their crew skills, how well can that player perform, put up teams based on players with similar rating..

 

sounds like this is already be happening.. but it isn't.. you would remember some screen shots players have posted in other threads.

 

I am happy to play a battle where I have to use my wits and opponent posses a challenge and its ok if I loose, we all should learn from what we did wrongs and improve.

 

I have found satisfaction and pleasure in battles which were lost, just because opponent played so well.. Some opponents were so good that I had to complement them after the match.

 

No point in playing and winning a battle where your team wipes out enemy in less that five mins with minimal losses.

 

No point in having players with premium tanks and who get 100% crew right from start and can afford spamming gold ammo even on paper thin armour, leading the battle.. (I am ok with premium players, gold ammo etc, but at least balance the teams right.)

 

I can't put what is in my head in writing so well, I hope you understand what I am trying to say..

 

MM is not happening right, that is what I feel.


Edited by Arshar, 10 September 2020 - 05:44 PM.


Arshar #8 Posted 10 September 2020 - 05:59 PM

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and for the love of god.. why do plp think everyone who complaints does not know how to drive their tank or does not make an attempt to learn from their mistakes ..

 

"If you cannot figure out how to drive your own tank, then what makes you think you can convince WoT to change the entire game?"

 

I am not complaining about any of my vehicles, I have Some 100 vehicles and I love them all, I have learnt a lot about pros and cons of vehicles I own.

 

In the 1st post I mentioned my panther and VK just because they have new crew, < 60% I need time to build that up with MM where Enemy team flushes us or own team overruns enemy..

 

People around me would not understand why would someone would get RED playing a game, here people would.. might.. so I am thankful to the forum.


Edited by Arshar, 10 September 2020 - 06:12 PM.


CardinalMite #9 Posted 10 September 2020 - 07:21 PM

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You know what you describe is known as skill based matchmaking a.k.a. SBMM.

 

There are literally hundreds of threads about this subject. New ones get raised maybe every couple of weeks.

 

In those threads it gets explained, over and over again why SBMM not only is a bad idea it doesn't even achieve what you think it will. 

 

Please inform yourself rather than just rehashing the same argument from an ill informed position. 


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The_Big_M #10 Posted 11 September 2020 - 12:04 AM

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I can't say I agree fully with that. 

 

Yes, it is correct that there have been many threads referring to SBMM.

 

But the argument seems to be "SBMM is a bad idea cause we say so" and repeat that it's been discussed many times before. Without actually saying what the problem is. Someone said it would take longer to start a match. That's been shot down. Someone said it would be detrimental to stats without explaining why. I'm not sure that's the case, and even so that's not what I, nor the poster above, are complaining about, or wanting to improve by the change. It's possible stats would need to be rebased. Who cares? It's possible some metric may no longer be as appropriate. Which means another would be built then. Who cares? If that is the basis, then it's not a justification as it's not the main reason people play a game; it's just additional information surrounding how you played. And that's all I've heard thrown out as reasons it shouldn't be done.

 

Perhaps it was actually soundly discussed 10 years ago or similar. But it doesn't actually seem to be substantially discussed in any recent threads.



Ezz #11 Posted 11 September 2020 - 06:16 AM

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Suspect you didn't read those threads very thoroughly then M. The issues with sbmm are many and varied so if you're going to be lazy enough to call them a because we say so, and cast then off as who cares, then I can't imagine anyone is going to care enough to discuss it with you further.

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FramFramson #12 Posted 11 September 2020 - 06:27 AM

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You want a direct answer with something that's been discussed before? Basic maths. The simplest problem is that with SBMM everyone would end up with a WR% that would stabilize at the mean of 49.5%; the only difference would be what "bracket" you were in and the occasional fluctuation in WR% if/as you move between brackets.

 

I'm all for raising the requirements a bit to play higher tiers, but in 10 years, GGG has never moved in that direction, instead they go the other way. 


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NameWasStolenStresslevel #13 Posted 11 September 2020 - 08:05 AM

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You wanna a good MM more than normal??? And want to have less unpredictability and bad MM??? Simple:

 

Every tier have a powerful tank/op tank. Get 3 of then in a platoon. Have contact with then by discord, skype, even typing in chat is enough if you are not chat banned. Even pinging the map should be enough if they are half-decent platoon mates.

 

BINGO!

 

Enjoy better than normal MM. And remember, most bad players play bad tanks. So you are not only playing good tanks, you will also be statistically more often matched against bad players while they are using bad tanks = easy win. Triple AAA (squared tripled AAA x 1000 times multiplied by 50)

 

Of course there will be few challenges for this platoon, but probablly 10000000% less challenge than a solo player would have. Hence easy winrate.

 

 


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Puggsley #14 Posted 11 September 2020 - 08:21 AM

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^^^

 

To use a platoon you first have to overcome any pathological hatred of platoons you might have.

 

And also not be on the list of people who are banned from platooning.....



FramFramson #15 Posted 11 September 2020 - 08:53 AM

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Nobody seems to like tooning with me :(

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Puggsley #16 Posted 11 September 2020 - 09:50 AM

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You're on the list Fram.

tallyh0 #17 Posted 11 September 2020 - 10:01 AM

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Remember with platooning - acting in a team is a “force multiplier”. If you are a useful, contributing, damaging player - and your platoon mates are too - then the platoon will act strongly to swing more results your way. If, however, you are a non contributor, you don’t pull your weight in a game anyway (the classic measurement is doing damage = your hp) and the same goes for your platoon buddies, then the combined result will even more reduce your team’s chance of winning, and the enjoyment of the other players on your team.

TL;DR - if you are good at this game: platoon. If you are bad then get better but don’t platoon.

Edited by tallyh0, 11 September 2020 - 10:08 AM.


The_Big_M #18 Posted 11 September 2020 - 12:06 PM

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View PostFramFramson, on 11 September 2020 - 08:27 AM, said:

You want a direct answer with something that's been discussed before? Basic maths. The simplest problem is that with SBMM everyone would end up with a WR% that would stabilize at the mean of 49.5%; the only difference would be what "bracket" you were in and the occasional fluctuation in WR% if/as you move between brackets.

 

I'm all for raising the requirements a bit to play higher tiers, but in 10 years, GGG has never moved in that direction, instead they go the other way. 

 

That's what I was referring to with stats. I'm not sure that that's the case, and even if it were, that isn't why people play a game. In which case, people would rebase the stats, and use other more appropriate ones.



The_Big_M #19 Posted 11 September 2020 - 12:07 PM

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View PostEzz, on 11 September 2020 - 08:16 AM, said:

Suspect you didn't read those threads very thoroughly then M. The issues with sbmm are many and varied so if you're going to be lazy enough to call them a because we say so, and cast then off as who cares, then I can't imagine anyone is going to care enough to discuss it with you further.

 

No, far from lazy - but I'm not going to read every single thread in the history either. I already gave some examples of what was covered, which shows some of the points and addresses them. And I've also read a lot of those threads over months, but yet to see any conclusive reason. And most negative threads use the same 'been covered before' argument.

 

That said, if it's such a cut and dried case, as is implied, it would surely be easy to either give the simple explanation, or link to the definitive thread - and it would be resolved. The fact it gets hedged around, and evasively responded to suggest its more personal opinion that is behind this.


Edited by The_Big_M, 11 September 2020 - 12:12 PM.


MagicalFlyingFox #20 Posted 11 September 2020 - 12:08 PM

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The real reason is that making MM have to work harder will lead to more 5 minute timeouts the further to the edges you go of the skill curve.

 

 

WG have enough issues with MM, no need to make it more complicated for them. Especially on our small server.


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 A. Guy on 02 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

Destroyer of Tier 6 CW... says it all about you.





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