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Ceberion_Lancer #1 Posted 12 September 2020 - 01:37 AM

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Basically title. If anyone have free time, please watch and point out what, where and when I could have done things differently. Thank you.

http://wotreplays.eu/site/5542128#live_oaks-ceberion_lancer-a46

http://wotreplays.eu/site/5542129#sand_river-ceberion_lancer-a46


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AlexTheKid72 #2 Posted 12 September 2020 - 04:19 AM

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For live oaks : you played the A46 :P
Also this analysis is from a potato.

Seriously though ..... you started well.
Instead of pushing up two houses at 12 mins (I think you forgot the amd was in the swamp) to keep passive spotting, the blue house bushes in between had a bit more elevation and angle to spot the amd again.
However I feel that was the time to choose to play active. Either support heavies from the houses on the 3/4 line, or to back out and help the south east defend against enemy push. 
Neither is easy in an A46.

Final analysis - you didn't really do anything wrong.
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Ceberion_Lancer #3 Posted 12 September 2020 - 01:25 PM

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Thank for the comment. It's not that I forgot about the AMD, rather I mistakenly thought that he relocated since I activated my binocs at the bush at the first house and didn't saw anything. If anyone went to the swampy road again, I will be sure to use the blue house one and see if it works.

 

Another question, would turning around and helping T78 to defend the cap a better move instead of trying to lit the Achilles/Hellcat/T-34-85 in the base like what I tried? I reasoned at that moment that the city advance will halt if the unlit TDs/MTs set up along the 9 line, but after the battle it seems like my team had enough guns from the city that it shouldn't have mattered.


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CardinalMite #4 Posted 12 September 2020 - 01:56 PM

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Not in front of a computer to watch the replay atm. However rule of thumb I use is if it is unclear whether to attack base or go back for reset, I will always go for the reset.

 

Reason being:

 

1. It is dangerous to assume someone else will reset.

 

2. See 1.


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Puggsley #5 Posted 14 September 2020 - 08:14 AM

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Go back for reset.

 

Reasons why.

  1. you don't have to be on the base to get a reset. A shot from 300m will do - even render range if you have a spotter.
  2. you can get a reset with 1 single shot, you need to occupy the cap for 100 sec to win that way.
  3. caps usually have limited bushes. You can defend from a bush and roll back to double bush easily.
  4. caps are usually open, there is little hard cover. You can defend from hard cover very easily. 
  5. resetting does not tell the enemy where you are.


Ceberion_Lancer #6 Posted 15 September 2020 - 11:30 PM

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Thank for the head-up, I appreciate it, even if I have yet to have a chance to apply that recently.

 

One last question, I think my survival rates in all kind of vehicles pretty horrendous, even TDs. I believe I might be too impatient and playing more aggressively than I should, what could I do to fix that?

For example, this is a replay when I pressed with a push as a Charioteer and got BTFO immediately by the two arties. Maybe I should have left the Cent 5/1 and Emil to deal with the King Tiger.

http://wotreplays.eu/site/5547073#karelia-ceberion_lancer-charioteer


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Puggsley #7 Posted 16 September 2020 - 08:02 AM

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How I fixed that exact issue was to follow a suggestion made by a clan mate. 

 

"Concentrate on what do you have to do to get one more shot of damage" Was really that simple. 

 

Makes you aware of when do you need to pull back. Makes you aware of not poking when you know you are going to take damage. Same for are you being too passive. Same for keeping a close watch on the minimap.

 

By far the best advice I have ever gotten about this game. 

 

"Have your escape route planned and falling back a little early is always better than a little too late" was a reasonable second.

 

 



vandem #8 Posted 17 September 2020 - 07:54 AM

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Comments from a moderate 1200 WN8 player who has recently been watching Taugrim videos and now playing at 1400 - 1600 WN8 level (A46 32 battles 1358 WN8), 1st on live oaks

 

loading - you are the only LT so need to stay alive to mid game to give your side vision control advantage (channeling Taugrim here ...)

 

initial movement - spotting position into swamp was OK but then appeared to be low reward.    There were friendly 3 TDs defending swamp.   Their AMD got spotted but wasn't making yolo spotting runs.   I would have guessed they had 1-2 TDs on C6 hill and/or D7 building so no point me pushing swamp.   So around 13:00 I would have switch to right flank, more useful than waiting for AMD to pop up.

 

10:40: score is 0-3, 2 MTs on right flank are dead, only TD and FV304 to defend, so I would have switched to cap / right flank defense, used the gully around G2 where there is a bush, passive spotting unless I needed a desperate cap reset (with APCR pre-loaded), then tried chat to try and get a MT to come and help defend.

 

 


Edited by vandem, 17 September 2020 - 08:00 AM.


vandem #9 Posted 17 September 2020 - 08:10 AM

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Then sand river.

 

loading, 2 LTs and 3 art, standard stuff.

 

initial: spotting from middle hill bushes, very similar to what I do.

 

13:30: noticed only 1 teammate HT goes left, most HT MT go mid-right.   Our other LT is in city.   I would have considered switching to far right flank to do active spotting ridge pop-ups.

 

13:20 you push ahead ???   Seems high risk low reward to me (but I sometimes play too passively).   Two enemy LTs on your left could spot you, enemy TD probably ahead in bushes on ridge near cap could spot you.   And our other LT is already pushing middle.

 

11:40 teammate HT on left is dead, they will can now push on our left flank to our cap.   I would have switched back to cap / left defense, either from shallow depression at start of gully (there are small bushes), or go right back to rock + bush ridge at cap.   Mix of spotting + shoot and backup.

 


Edited by vandem, 17 September 2020 - 08:10 AM.


Ceberion_Lancer #10 Posted 17 September 2020 - 02:19 PM

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View Postvandem, on 17 September 2020 - 06:54 AM, said:

Comments from a moderate 1200 WN8 player who has recently been watching Taugrim videos and now playing at 1400 - 1600 WN8 level (A46 32 battles 1358 WN8), 1st on live oaks

 

loading - you are the only LT so need to stay alive to mid game to give your side vision control advantage (channeling Taugrim here ...)

 

initial movement - spotting position into swamp was OK but then appeared to be low reward.    There were friendly 3 TDs defending swamp.   Their AMD got spotted but wasn't making yolo spotting runs.   I would have guessed they had 1-2 TDs on C6 hill and/or D7 building so no point me pushing swamp.   So around 13:00 I would have switch to right flank, more useful than waiting for AMD to pop up.

 

10:40: score is 0-3, 2 MTs on right flank are dead, only TD and FV304 to defend, so I would have switched to cap / right flank defense, used the gully around G2 where there is a bush, passive spotting unless I needed a desperate cap reset (with APCR pre-loaded), then tried chat to try and get a MT to come and help defend.

 

 

I would like to ask if there are values in playing the south flank of this map in a light tank? Most of them are ridges with only one viable bush on opposite side, and in my experience fighting in this part of the map doesn't require much help in spotting, unless we are talking about pushing up the A-B sites as southern spawn. My usual plan for this map is pushing along the houses to spot the enemy camping C6 hill, and so far I had yet to see a similarly viable plan.

 

View Postvandem, on 17 September 2020 - 07:10 AM, said:

Then sand river.

 

loading, 2 LTs and 3 art, standard stuff.

 

initial: spotting from middle hill bushes, very similar to what I do.

 

13:30: noticed only 1 teammate HT goes left, most HT MT go mid-right.   Our other LT is in city.   I would have considered switching to far right flank to do active spotting ridge pop-ups.

 

13:20 you push ahead ???   Seems high risk low reward to me (but I sometimes play too passively).   Two enemy LTs on your left could spot you, enemy TD probably ahead in bushes on ridge near cap could spot you.   And our other LT is already pushing middle.

 

11:40 teammate HT on left is dead, they will can now push on our left flank to our cap.   I would have switched back to cap / left defense, either from shallow depression at start of gully (there are small bushes), or go right back to rock + bush ridge at cap.   Mix of spotting + shoot and backup.

 


My personal experience in A46 is that it is very similar to the rest of British tier >=7 tech tree LTs, I cannot survive a brawl unless my enemy had already been severely wounded. The first few games I gone to Sand River, I tried the southern flank and got murdered by any mobile LTs/MTs if I detach from the main force and push ahead.

 

The first push at 13:20 was intended to lit enemy stopping the lemming train of my team. At that point, most of our number was bogged down within the valley, unless the lights give them something to shoot at, they will sit there until the flanks fold upon them. I agree that it was high risk low reward, but I don't see much use in camping where the only thing I spot are the 2 LTs running circles around the northeast dunes.

 

11:40 was solid, I will definitely try to do that if I have the north flank collapse again. The biggest trouble in that scenario up until now is the same one above, if I got rushed alone I am dead, and sand dunes do not allow my teammates to back me up, so I often just leave it to fend for itself.

 

Anyway, thank you for the time watching and commenting, those advice are valuable and I will do my best applying them in my future plays.


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CardinalMite #11 Posted 17 September 2020 - 03:09 PM

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View PostCeberion_Lancer, on 17 September 2020 - 06:19 AM, said:

I would like to ask if there are values in playing the south flank of this map in a light tank? Most of them are ridges with only one viable bush on opposite side, and in my experience fighting in this part of the map doesn't require much help in spotting, unless we are talking about pushing up the A-B sites as southern spawn. My usual plan for this map is pushing along the houses to spot the enemy camping C6 hill, and so far I had yet to see a similarly viable plan.

 


My personal experience in A46 is that it is very similar to the rest of British tier >=7 tech tree LTs, I cannot survive a brawl unless my enemy had already been severely wounded. The first few games I gone to Sand River, I tried the southern flank and got murdered by any mobile LTs/MTs if I detach from the main force and push ahead.

 

The first push at 13:20 was intended to lit enemy stopping the lemming train of my team. At that point, most of our number was bogged down within the valley, unless the lights give them something to shoot at, they will sit there until the flanks fold upon them. I agree that it was high risk low reward, but I don't see much use in camping where the only thing I spot are the 2 LTs running circles around the northeast dunes.

 

11:40 was solid, I will definitely try to do that if I have the north flank collapse again. The biggest trouble in that scenario up until now is the same one above, if I got rushed alone I am dead, and sand dunes do not allow my teammates to back me up, so I often just leave it to fend for itself.

 

Anyway, thank you for the time watching and commenting, those advice are valuable and I will do my best applying them in my future plays.

re: Live Oaks as north spawn, If you are reasonably confident that a significant number of your team are also going south then being fast and able to forward spot in the south definitely valuable, especially if there is arty on your team that can start bombing the enemy as they make their way towards the dip/bridge area. You can see early if it looks like they are going to rush into the dip first which is vital information for your team so that if necessary they can cancel the push to instead hold the slope hull down on the near side. Stay high near the bridge for as long as possible before making the risky play across to the opposite side as you might get mobbed by enemy fast tanks and get trapped in the ditch and staying high means you are spotting across the other side for as long as possible before committing and you get more chance to chicken out at the last second if you don't like what you see. Don't go into the ditch unless you have lots of fast team mates following close behind that may go with you.

 

If you go across the ditch however don't sit in the lone bush there, it is such an obvious blind fire, just poke the very top of your cupola up behind the bush for second  or 2  then drop back see if you are spotted, if not rinse and repeat. A less risky play is to head laterally to the tip of the peninsula on the near side instead and spot but be prepared to run back if it looks like the enemy team is going to push hard up over the other side of the dip because you could get cut off there alone if no one went with you in numbers. All this is highly situational and can be risky but it can be high reward too. You need to get good at reading whether it is time to bug out.

 

Doing an early spot south and then bugging out isn't a bad play, you often find that the other LT on your team (and possibly the enemy one too)has got himself extremely dead on the north west of the map early on and you can then go spotting over that side or alternatively sneak and spot through the middle of the swamp. Some seem to like to do the latter but I hate the swampy middle section in an LT (any tank actually) if you get spotted at all there is little cover, your mobility is hampered by the water and it just reeks of death trap to me.

 

Not saying that south is a better place for an LT but I would not say it has no value either.


“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

 

"It's like you literally dont read your own posts, let alone others, make up instead what you wished others said, then put a non-sensical counter argument to that imagined post."

 

"Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. But then if I limited myself to only arguing with non-idiots on these forums I'd literally never post"


Ceberion_Lancer #12 Posted 18 September 2020 - 04:50 PM

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View PostCardinalMite, on 17 September 2020 - 02:09 PM, said:

re: Live Oaks as north spawn, If you are reasonably confident that a significant number of your team are also going south then being fast and able to forward spot in the south definitely valuable, especially if there is arty on your team that can start bombing the enemy as they make their way towards the dip/bridge area. You can see early if it looks like they are going to rush into the dip first which is vital information for your team so that if necessary they can cancel the push to instead hold the slope hull down on the near side. Stay high near the bridge for as long as possible before making the risky play across to the opposite side as you might get mobbed by enemy fast tanks and get trapped in the ditch and staying high means you are spotting across the other side for as long as possible before committing and you get more chance to chicken out at the last second if you don't like what you see. Don't go into the ditch unless you have lots of fast team mates following close behind that may go with you.

 

If you go across the ditch however don't sit in the lone bush there, it is such an obvious blind fire, just poke the very top of your cupola up behind the bush for second  or 2  then drop back see if you are spotted, if not rinse and repeat. A less risky play is to head laterally to the tip of the peninsula on the near side instead and spot but be prepared to run back if it looks like the enemy team is going to push hard up over the other side of the dip because you could get cut off there alone if no one went with you in numbers. All this is highly situational and can be risky but it can be high reward too. You need to get good at reading whether it is time to bug out.

 

Doing an early spot south and then bugging out isn't a bad play, you often find that the other LT on your team (and possibly the enemy one too)has got himself extremely dead on the north west of the map early on and you can then go spotting over that side or alternatively sneak and spot through the middle of the swamp. Some seem to like to do the latter but I hate the swampy middle section in an LT (any tank actually) if you get spotted at all there is little cover, your mobility is hampered by the water and it just reeks of death trap to me.

 

Not saying that south is a better place for an LT but I would not say it has no value either.


Nice, I am always in for alternatives, options make playing far more fun. It's odd that I had never got North spawn for Live Oaks in an A46, only South ones, so it might take awhile to apply. Definitely isn't because I am a slow learner.

Is there a guide of positions for LTs somewhere? I installed a mod for popular spotting location, but they don't really show the full potential for play and counter play. Bushmaster Steve 90 gave me pretty good positions on some maps (e.g Karelia & Malinovka), but aside from them I am stuck slogging through trial-and-error.


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CardinalMite #13 Posted 18 September 2020 - 05:34 PM

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Check out 4tankersanddog on YouTube.  He does guides on where the [edited] to go on all the maps. He tends to specialise in LT gameplay for the most part.


“Holiday ops is balanced for Asia because a good player opening 11 boxes will get just as many decorations as a noob opening 75..”—.Murazor new head of global festive events.

 

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Ceberion_Lancer #14 Posted 18 September 2020 - 11:55 PM

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Not enough memebush for me. :P

Just kidding, I will watch the rest of them and reserve my judgment until later. So far the locations in the playlist had been quite conservative, so I will try those out first.


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